Bangladesh’s example: Give secularism, tolerance a chance in Pakistan

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

oh dear... our GDP will always be higher than yours BD... that's what i meant... oh btw by 2050 bd future looking rough with global warming...

Not really. Only if Pakistan can maintain on an average 6% GDP growth up to 2050 which is unlikely. If Pakistan splits into more pieces ... I mean if Baluchistan gets independence then it wont never be possible. But Pakistan will have less per capita GDP for sure.

 

[Armstrong]

I never claimed that secularism is the magic stick to bring all those. I said: It is the way to prevent hypocrisy. Preventing hypocrisy is the first step to all those factors.

Education, accountability and democracy are the way to prevent hypocrisy and none of them are intrinsic to Secularism for they are universally accepted as signs of Good Governance irrespective of the ideology the system operates under !

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Have you even researched from every angle, or are you saying this based one one-sided research?

What sort of 'hypocrisy' are you exactly talking about?

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

We have 4% right now... Lol for only 4 years Pakistan's economy plops and BD's getting excited

Thats not my projection... Citi Bank has made that. But from the chart of the table it is for sure pakistan will have less then 6.4% GDP growth as more then that would place Pakistan in the top 10 list.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

If Pakistan splits into more pieces ... I mean if Baluchistan gets independence then it wont never be possible

You love to mention that quite alot, don't you? Keep the poison off please, and rest assured; Balochistan isn't going anywhere.

 

[Icewolf]

Thats not my projection... Citi Bank has made that. But from the chart of the table it is for sure pakistan will have less then 6.4% GDP growth as more then that would place Pakistan in the top 10 list.

And BD superpower will have 8% growth for 40 years straight eh?

Who trusts Citi Bank nowadays, the bank is bankrupt and they couldn't even predict USA's downfall so...

 

[Armstrong]

I would urge you to read the history of Kemal Ataturk and his actions in Turkey. He completely eradicated religious and sectarian hypocrisy. Till you have hypocrisy, you cannot achieve good governance and everything.

Pakistan needs a Kemal Ataturk.

I have a lot of respect for Mr.Ataturk but I would prefer another Muhammad Ali Jinnah and another Iqbal ! I however, have a different view on Mr.Atuturk's dealing with sectarianism or hypocrisy; I don't think that going about eliminating religion is the way to go and I've know enough Turks to know that when you're drinking and indulging in all kinds of other vices prohibited by Islam and still calling yourself a proud Muslim, it doesn't make for a good case against hypocrisy !

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Who trusts Citi Bank nowadays, the bank is bankrupt and they couldn't even predict USA's downfall so...

Never mind that, just keep economics off this thread. It's a thread about secularism

I've know enough Turks to know that when you're drinking and indulging in all kinds of other vices prohibited by Islam and still calling yourself a proud Muslim, it doesn't make for a good case against hypocrisy !

I second that; thanks.

 

[King Solomon]

I have a lot of respect for Mr.Ataturk but I would prefer another Muhammad Ali Jinnah and another Iqbal ! I however, have a different view on Mr.Atuturk's dealing with sectarianism or hypocrisy; I don't think that going about eliminating religion is the way to go and I've know enough Turks to know that when you're drinking and indulging in all kinds of other vices prohibited by Islam and still calling yourself a proud Muslim, it doesn't make for a good case against hypocrisy !

Secularism was misused by the presidents of turkey who succeeded Ataturk. It is they who tried to convert Turkey to atheist state. Finally by the grace of God, Turkey found a balanced government now.

I have no questions at Ataturk's integrity, personally speaking. I have studied him and his views from all angles. Many of the false allegations made on him actually have no foundation.

But your personal experience you stated with a few Turks cannot be applied to the whole Turkish nation. Ataturk is the model for all Muslim countreies including pakistan.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

And BD superpower will have 8% growth for 40 years straight eh?

Who trusts Citi Bank nowadays, the bank is bankrupt and they couldn't even predict USA's downfall so...

Bangladesh is already achieving around 7% GDP growth without any FDI. Just imagine when the proposed infrastructure up gradation and electricity problem will be resolved in 2-3 years how much it will achieve GDP growth. If political stability remain Bangladesh will achieve much more then that. Female empowerment, their participation in work force and likely eradication of illiteracy and present 99% enrollment in the primary and secondary school level will play active roll in it which is unlikely in Pakistan. Now Bangladesh needs to play its geographical location card wisely.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

But your personal experience you stated with a few Turks cannot be applied to the whole Turkish nation. Ataturk is the model for all Muslim countreies including pakistan.

He might have been a good model generally, but not Islamically.
'A society can be very successful and great even if not secular'; it just seems like you don't want to swallow this bit of the medicine

 

[khanz]

forget religion or secularism just give transparency,civic sense and education a chance that's what south asia needs more of in general.

 

[Armstrong]

Secularism was misused by the presidents of turkey who succeeded Ataturk. It is they who tried to convert Turkey to atheist state. Finally by the grace of God, Turkey found a balanced government now.

I have no questions at Ataturk's integrity, personally speaking. I have studied him and his views from all angles. Many of the false allegations made on him actually have no foundation.

But your personal experience you stated with a few Turks cannot be applied to the whole Turkish nation. It is the model for all Muslim countreies including pakistan.

I don't have anything against Mr.Ataturk either but his attempt to solve religious intolerance, hypocrisy and extremism by taking religion out of the occasion wasn't something I agree with ! Unfortunately, I think, that he did exactly that !

And likewise I reserve the right to have a different ideal than the one proposed by Mr.Ataturk for an Islamic Welfare State !

 

[Icewolf]

Bangladesh is already achieving around 7% GDP growth without any FDI. Just imagine when the proposed infrastructure up gradation and electricity problem will be resolved in 2-3 years how much it will achieve GDP growth. If political stability remain Bangladesh will achieve much more then that. Female empowerment, their participation in work force and likely eradication of illiteracy and present 99% enrollment in the primary and secondary school level will play active roll in it which is unlikely in Pakistan. Now Bangladesh needs to play its geographical location card wisely.

So? We achieved 8-9% growth for 4 years, we didn't brag like you BD's.

Funny, BD has no significance in the world map, India is surrounding you and you can't play geo politics like we can.

Now India is planning to invade and destroy your nation with dams and such, what will you do?

 

[DRaisinHerald]

forget religion or secularism just give transparency,civic sense and education a chance that's what south asia needs more of in general.

Most of Pakistan's problem's have to do with the Taliban (which are created because the Pak army is bombing them); America (obvious) and corruption. End corruption, and bring a decent gov. into power, and all things should fall into place if executed right.
Even if Pakistan does become secular, it's not going to decrease our problems or end 'hypocrisy' (still haven't understood what this is supposed to be in this context).