Bangladesh Air Force

[Indos]

So big unky can still play god of interference with this kf-x fighter at any point it wishes.

I also heard news that S.Koreans are looking for additional partners, Poland expressed interest. I wish Indonesia would rather have a more friendly more aligned country In involved rather than poles. Something like this may be vet beneficial for bdesh.

Including the fact the Chinese would happy giving us some tots the Turks and this project this would help bdesh internal capacity greatly

As junior partner, we dont have any say whether SK should add another partner or not.

It is lead to SK to decide. In 2009, it was SK who asked Indonesia to join.

Actually the other 20 % should be either European consortium ( Airbus ), Lockeed Martin, or Boeing to be part of the program. There are tender going on in 2014-2015 where LM wins ( join with Korean Aerospace/ KAI). But after the winning, LM refuse to share the development cost, they are in KF21 program is more like selling engineering services like BAE system to TFX program.

This lead to SK tried to use KFX-E design as now the consortium only has 80 % Korean and 20 % Indonesian. Due to unexpected result after KAI and LM winning where LM ended up doesnt hold the promise. The other tender participant is Korean Air who partner to either Boeing or Airbus ( I forgot which one ). Indonesia hoped European consortium to win as Indonesian Aerospace has strong connection to Airbus. In the end SK is brave enough to use C103 design that is more ambitious than KFX-E design proposed by KAI.

European consortium ( Airbus) even promise to invest 20 %. So this is Spain, France, Germany. If SK chose them, there will unlike we experience technology restriction under US parliament pressure (4 technologies are banned for SK, Indonesia get 9 technology ban ). One of them is AESA radar that later Hanwa Korea develops. With Airbus, the stakes will be 60 % Korean, 20 % Indonesia, 20 % Airbus. Duh this will make huge market at least for Spain and Germany. So dont blame Indonesia all the time, choosing USA that restricted the technology that made Joko admins rather having some resenment, but it end up we still continue the development regardless such problem Alhamdulillah.

C 103 design is produced during TD phase. Later it is refined into C 109 design.

Contrary to many foreign journalist who dont understand the program and story. Indonesia factor is very strong in making the program eventually started and SK end up choosing ambitious C103 double engine design.

Indonesia needs is double engine and it is we also who push for the program to have tandem seat variants that later is very useful for the plane to have wingman drone

C 103 design that look like Raptor is made before SK chooses Airbus, Boeing, or LM as another share holders. C 103 design is completed in 2012 December while Airbus, LM, Boeing tender in 2014-2015.

Their participation is also related to SK MRCA acquition program, if SK chooses Eurofighter, European consortium will enter and we have prepared C 203 design with canard during TD phase if SK chooses Eurofighter. But in the end SK chooses to buy F35, so we end up partnering with LM where L M also end up not holding their promise to fund 20% of KF21 program as the third share holder

 

[Indos]

The reason SK choses Indonesia I think because in East Asia, big powers are China, Japan, SK, Indonesia, Australia (G20 nations).

SK see China, Japan as rivals while Australia aerospace Industry is a branch of American company ( Boeing Australia ) and Australia is part of F35 program, so Aussie is unlikely joining the program if SK asked them to join.

There is only Indonesia left who they can see as real friend and can strenghten their position in East Asia. Indonesia is the only strategic partner of SK in East Asia region. They also have bought 8 CN 235 from Indonesian Aerospace in early 2000. We also bought 20 T50 Golden Eagle and their trained planes. So our relationship was great under SBY administration (2004 - 2014).

This cooperation is made under long term strategic thinking. This is why it is very unlikely either Indonesia decide to leave or SK decide to dump Indonesia....

Very unlikely Indonesia not completing the payment, Joko Widodo despite not too supportive but under him the contract in EMD phase is signed, including workshares and other thing. It is despite the program is started under SBY administration which become opposition under Joko administration.

 

[Tom-tom]

The reason SK choses Indonesia I think because in East Asia, big powers are China, Japan, SK, Indonesia, Australia (G20 nations).

SK see China, Japan as rivals while Australia aerospace Industry is a branch of American company ( Boeing Australia ) and Australia is part of F35 program, so Aussie is unlikely joining the program if SK asked them to join.

There is only Indonesia left who they can see as real friend and can strenghten their position in East Asia. Indonesia is the only strategic partner of SK in East Asia region. They also have bought 8 CN 235 from Indonesian Aerospace in early 2000. We also bought 20 T50 Golden Eagle and their trained planes. So our relationship was great under SBY administration (2004 - 2014).

This cooperation is made under long term strategic thinking. This is why it is very unlikely either Indonesia decide to leave or SK decide to dump Indonesia....

Very unlikely Indonesia not completing the payment, Joko Widodo despite not too supportive but under him the contract in EMD phase is signed, including workshares and other thing. It is despite the program is started under SBY administration which become opposition under Joko administration.

So In short the A/C has Unky restricted technology.

If bdesh was fortunate to acquire this tech, guessing it needs to be signed off by unky. Unky will tying string on the A/C for Bdesh, also a bit of wine and dining type cream on the bill to?

 

[Indos]

So In short the A/C has Unky restricted technology.

If bdesh was fortunate to acquire this tech, guessing it needs to be signed off by unky. Unky will tying string on the A/C for Bdesh, also a bit of wine and dining type cream on the bill to?

Yup, the program become problematic due to USA. Even Indonesia cannot be trusted by them, despite Indonesia is already hold strategic position when it comes to SCS, so you can see many military cooperation between Indonesia and USA like Garuda shields.

Yep, if you have bad relation with US, I am afraid it is unlikely for BD to enter the program....

Before EMD phase is started, Indonesia delegation need to get permission first to USA....regarding which technology development we can participate

Even as customer, BD could be banned as well. Indonesia get export ban on 9 technologies, but luckily as we are partner of the program, we could develop our own version using other component sources. But our version cannot be sold to other country. KF21 prototype number 5 will be given to Indonesia based on the agreement, from this prototype Indonesian Aerospace will try to develop our own version and from this prototype as well the plane is prepared as test bed plane for future upgrade program.

Developing the plane is not easy, as we need to do the work on several technologies that we cannot participate during EMD phase ( violation on previous deal), this is why there is internal R&D program conducted in Indonesia as preparation before Indonesia aerospace start developing the IFX when the prototype number 5 is already delivered to Indonesian Aerospace.

 

[Indos]

For information, Indonesian engineers from Indonesian aerospace is also working in TAI design center, working on several projects for Turkish Aerospace, including TFX program. Maybe from close connection with TAI, we also can successfully develop our own KF21 version.

 

[Tom-tom]

Yup, the program become problematic due to USA. Even Indonesia cannot be trusted by them, despite Indonesia is already hold strategic position when it comes to SCS, so you can see many military cooperation between Indonesia and USA like Garuda shields.

Yep, if you have bad relation with US, I am afraid it is unlikely for BD to enter the program....

Before EMD phase is started, Indonesia delegation need to get permission first to USA....regarding which technology development we can participate

Even as customer, BD could be banned as well. Indonesia get export ban on 9 technologies, but luckily as we are partner of the program, we could develop our own version using other component sources. But our version cannot be sold to other country. KF21 prototype number 5 will be given to Indonesia based on the agreement, from this prototype Indonesian Aerospace will try to develop our own version and from this prototype as well the plane is prepared as test bed plane for future upgrade program.

Developing the plane is not easy, as we need to do the work on several technologies that we cannot participate during EMD phase ( violation on previous deal), this is why there is internal R&D program conducted in Indonesia as preparation before Indonesia aerospace start developing the IFX when the prototype number 5 is already delivered to Indonesian Aerospace.

, unky wanted you to be the poster boy against China as well, for their task force. Which Indonesia may have done partly through being coherced however unky got you on level 9 tech ban as per you words. Can't make this up bro.

 

[saif]

The spilt is 60-20-20 .

S.koreans taking the largest share, Indonesians taking 20 % share and private equity firms taking the latter

In that case, even if Bangladesh is ready to pay for 20% share there is no room for Bangladesh to take part in the project. I think Bangladesh should stick to its plan to induct 4.5 generation aircraft either from Europe or from China. As we already know that BAF has made its own basic trainer and is looking for making it public at the end of this year, there is no need to participate in a complex aviation project right now. We need infrastructure, expertise, and money before participating in a complex aviation project.

 

[Bilal9]

In that case, even if Bangladesh is ready to pay for 20% share there is no room for Bangladesh to take part in the project. I think Bangladesh should stick to its plan to induct 4.5 generation aircraft either from Europe or from China. As we already know that BAF has made its own basic trainer and is looking for making it public at the end of this year, there is no need to participate in a complex aviation project right now. We need infrastructure, expertise, and money before participating in a complex aviation project.

I agree, but our own general training aircraft development is for short term solution.

For the longer term (aircraft industry component supplier and manufacture as well as risk sharing in large programs), however - we need to tie up with countries like Indonesia, Turkey and South Korea who are at least twenty (in Indonesia and SK case, thirty) years ahead of us.

Otherwise we won't get the basic and mid-grade expertise - and won't be able to use our basic aircraft and UAV development infra even if we can afford it.

Indonesia has developed the 19 seater N-219 aircraft (their own design) to serve their basic transport purpose (it fits passengers and also standard aircraft containers, I believe). We could assemble this airplane locally and it can serve logistics purpose for our Air Force and Army. This could be a nice useful example to assemble locally.

Tie-ups with advanced western countries are out-of-the-question because,

a. Their expertise is at a hundred year gap level with us
b. They will knowingly retard our development efforts or place too high a price-tag on it because they want to keep us dependent on the West.

I am surprised that in spite of having enough funds to afford a basic aircraft program, we have fallen behind so much, simply because of the incompetence of our military leadership, and also because they're corrupt and depend on commissions from foreign aircraft and UAV purchases.

It is lamentable that even our AF has no more expertise to build basic aircraft than some African countries do.

 

[saif]

For the longer term, however - we need to tie up with countries like Indonesia, Turkey and South Korea who are at least twenty (in Indonesia and SK case, thirty) years ahead of us.

@Bilal9 bhai, please also include China in your list of future partners of Bangladesh in aviation sector. China is the only country in the world which will go out of its way to help grow our nascent aviation industry. Our only overhauling plant is established with Chinese help.

Tie-ups with advanced western countries are out-of-the-question because,

a. Their expertise is at a hundred year gap level with us
b. They will knowingly retard our development efforts or place too high a price-tag on it because they want to keep us dependent on the West.

Totally agree with you. We can buy jet fighters from European countries but to build our own aviation industry we cannot depend on the Western countries for the reasons mentioned by you.

I am surprised that in spite of having enough funds to afford a basic aircraft program, we have fallen behind so much, simply because of the incompetence of our military leadership, and also because they're corrupt and depend on commissions from foreign aircraft and UAV purchases.

It is lamentable that even our AF has no more expertise to build basic aircraft than some African countries do.

Your observation is not far from the truth. In BAF incompetency rules

 

[Tom-tom]

I agree, but our own aircraft development is for short term solution.

For the longer term, however - we need to tie up with countries like Indonesia, Turkey and South Korea who are at least twenty (in Indonesia and SK case, thirty) years ahead of us.

Otherwise we won't get the basic and mid-grade expertise - and won't be able to use our basic aircraft and UAV development infra even if we can afford it.

Indonesia has developed the 19 seater N-219 aircraft (their own design) to serve their basic transport purpose (it fits passengers and also standard aircraft containers, I believe). We could assemble this airplane locally and it can serve logistics purpose for our Air Force and Army. This could be a nice useful example to assemble locally.

View attachment 969295

Tie-ups with advanced western countries are out-of-the-question because,

a. Their expertise is at a hundred year gap level with us
b. They will knowingly retard our development efforts or place too high a price-tag on it because they want to keep us dependent on the West.

I am surprised that in spite of having enough funds to afford a basic aircraft program, we have fallen behind so much, simply because of the incompetence of our military leadership, and also because they're corrupt and depend on commissions from foreign aircraft and UAV purchases.

It is lamentable that even our AF has no more expertise to build basic aircraft than some African countries do.

In that case, even if Bangladesh is ready to pay for 20% share there is no room for Bangladesh to take part in the project. I think Bangladesh should stick to its plan to induct 4.5 generation aircraft either from Europe or from China. As we already know that BAF has made its own basic trainer and is looking for making it public at the end of this year, there is no need to participate in a complex aviation project right now. We need infrastructure, expertise, and money before participating in a complex aviation project.

Indos, bhia Jaan has already stated they have started their own internal R&D project. That is mirroring the development of joint S.Korean A/C. To circumvent Unky shooting to many spiddey webs on it. ( No pun intended.). Just in case unky want to interfere A little too much.

Unky is more than happy for Indonesia to become the front line in the Pacific coalition aimed and pointed at China. However it restricted its access to tech. Unky is more than happy for Indonesians bhia jaans homes and lands being blown to smithereens though.

There may be scope for us to be involved in the internal R&D. As the Indonesians have the intention of having an equivalent - where unky can not interfere with it or meddle.

J-10 tots, Turks will be happy to add in a few tots.

Knowledge gained from Indonesia internal R&D will be immeasurable for us.

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,

 

[Tom-tom]

.,.,
View attachment 970695

Pls explain the significance of this pic?

 

[ghazi52]

Pls explain the significance of this pic?

Second batch of K-8W.

 

[saif]

Second batch of K-8W.

I am waiting for 1st batch of J-10 from China

 

[Avicenna]

Any word on the progress of the new air force bases in Sylhet and Barisal?