Bangladesh Air Force

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMO ... Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen C/D, but with the Leonardo Grifo-E GaN AESA radar.

With the Gripen, the BAF will be free of relying on China, Russia or India. I don't think the US will be a factor in any way seeing that there's no animosity between Dhaka and Washington.

Moreover, seeing how Bangladesh's macro-economic standing is quite good, I think it's in good shape to also get a long-term line-of-credit from Sweden. Of the Western fighters, the Gripen is apparently the most economical to fly and support through the long-term. The C/D's acquisition cost is also lower than the E/F.

 

[Tanveer666]

MM will be begging for their return. Just keep patience. We seen it many times.

Why is that?

 

[Nilgiri]

Why is that?

Coz he (Genghiz lineage babu) sez so!

@Aung Zaya @tarpitz

 

[Avicenna]

IMO ... Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen C/D, but with the Leonardo Grifo-E GaN AESA radar.

With the Gripen, the BAF will be free of relying on China, Russia or India. I don't think the US will be a factor in any way seeing that there's no animosity between Dhaka and Washington.

Moreover, seeing how Bangladesh's macro-economic standing is quite good, I think it's in good shape to also get a long-term line-of-credit from Sweden. Of the Western fighters, the Gripen is apparently the most economical to fly and support through the long-term. The C/D's acquisition cost is also lower than the E/F.

I agree completely.

This is IMO a pivotal moment for BAF. The F-7 needs replacement. And the air arm is hoping for expansion.

In addition, the political equation has changed somewhat. The Rohingya debacle pretty much showed where Bangladesh really stands with Russia, India and China.

On the other hand, the US may have started to view Bangladesh a little differently vis a vis the China/USA rivalry sensing an oppurtunity to steer Bangladesh away from China.

As you have said, fundamentally, Bangaldesh is a Western oriented nation in good standing with those countries.

In addition, if the Bangladeshi economy truley is improved and improving as some say, finances will not be as much of an issue.

Thus, at this point in time, there is an intersection of variables that are conducive to Bangaldesh breaking the cycle of Chinese and Russian supplied fighters and buy Western.

The Gripen is the obvious choice.

F-16s are still out of reach mostly for political purposes. Also F-16s as we have seen carry many many strings.

The Gripen is both politically and economically a good choice as I can't really see any reason why Sweden would be prevented from selling the platform to Bangladesh.

In addition, from the US side, this also allows Bangaldesh to fall a little bit further away from the Chinese sphere of influence without directly involving the US. (i.e. F-16 supply)

But I fear there is a real lack of vision and insight into the above mentioned political realities by the decision makers of the BAF.

Also, by far Western platforms and training are superior to anything Russia/China sourced.

 

[TopCat]

Why is that?

Because I seen BD and how desperate we were to bring back chakma refugee. It was not that we loved them but to bring an end to the international condemnation. For mm to go back to the growth they must have to end this rohingya situation.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I agree completely.

This is IMO a pivotal moment for BAF. The F-7 needs replacement. And the air arm is hoping for expansion.

In addition, the political equation has changed somewhat. The Rohingya debacle pretty much showed where Bangladesh really stands with Russia, India and China.

On the other hand, the US may have started to view Bangladesh a little differently vis a vis the China/USA rivalry sensing an oppurtunity to steer Bangladesh away from China.

As you have said, fundamentally, Bangaldesh is a Western oriented nation in good standing with those countries.

In addition, if the Bangladeshi economy truley is improved and improving as some say, finances will not be as much of an issue.

Thus, at this point in time, there is an intersection of variables that are conducive to Bangaldesh breaking the cycle of Chinese and Russian supplied fighters and buy Western.

The Gripen is the obvious choice.

F-16s are still out of reach mostly for political purposes. Also F-16s as we have seen carry many many strings.

The Gripen is both politically and economically a good choice as I can't really see any reason why Sweden would be prevented from selling the platform to Bangladesh.

In addition, from the US side, this also allows Bangaldesh to fall a little bit further away from the Chinese sphere of influence without directly involving the US. (i.e. F-16 supply)

But I fear there is a real lack of vision and insight into the above mentioned political realities by the decision makers of the BAF.

Also, by far Western platforms and training are superior to anything Russia/China sourced.

The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.

For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.

Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?

 

[Avicenna]

The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.

For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.

Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?

I agree. This is why im concerned with the thought process, or lack there of, of those making these decisions.

I get the sense that the folks making the calls are not very sophiscticated in their thinking.

The route taken so far does seem to be haphazard, as you've said.

It's a shame because there is alot of potential for BAF to become a potent little force if the correct things are done.

This would have been the PERFECT opportunity to transition into the Western ecosystem of fighter aircraft.

Regarding the Yaks, I think perhaps they were planning on getting some SU-30 eventually until the Russians played games with the pricing supposedly.

All the more reason to buy Western. The Russians wouldnt be able to pull that sorta stunt again.

 

[UKBengali]

The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.

For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.

Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?

Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.

What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.

BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.

BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.

For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.

Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?

some good points Bilal Bhai... the one that I most liked is the suggestion towards standardization.... this effort has just begun with some areas only.... platforms are still being experimented with, which the concepts are getting solidified...

the Navy is acquiring vessels that are more-or-less similar in design, which can be modified to serve different purpose... the Air Force is standardizing Mi-series and AW-series helicopters.... other forces are also following Air Force lines when it comes to flying platforms.... the Army has standardized BTR-series vehicles.... SHORAD systems are being standardized across the Air Force and the Army.... some different platforms are still being evaluated before a long-term decision is to be made....

in fact, policies had been made without focus all these years.... or should I say, there was hardly a policy... now things have just started to look more organized.... long-time allies are still being evaluated, which ultimately will ensure steady supply of critical items.... also current and future ToT possibilities would be part of the considerations, as the state considers setting up technology-based defence industries... platforms, I believe, would follow such thoughts....

 

[Avicenna]

some good points Bilal Bhai... the one that I most liked is the suggestion towards standardization.... this effort has just begun with some areas only.... platforms are still being experimented with, which the concepts are getting solidified...

the Navy is acquiring vessels that are more-or-less similar in design, which can be modified to serve different purpose... the Air Force is standardizing Mi-series and AW-series helicopters.... other forces are also following Air Force lines when it comes to flying platforms.... the Army has standardized BTR-series vehicles.... SHORAD systems are being standardized across the Air Force and the Army.... some different platforms are still being evaluated before a long-term decision is to be made....

in fact, policies had been made without focus all these years.... or should I say, there was hardly a policy... now things have just started to look more organized.... long-time allies are still being evaluated, which ultimately will ensure steady supply of critical items.... also current and future ToT possibilities would be part of the considerations, as the state considers setting up technology-based defence industries... platforms, I believe, would follow such thoughts....

I hope this is the case.

Also I like your signature. Very true.

I would hope Bangaldesh finds itself sourcing from EU, UK, Sweden, Turkey, South Korea and Japan more and from China and Russia less.

I don't mind Bangaldesh cooperating a little closer with the US, knowing full well there's no free lunch with the US.

The real benefit I am seeking is more access to Western training and tactics.

Also, if the Phillipines can, so can Bangladesh.

The same also goes for Botswana.

 

[Imran Khan]

Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.

What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.

BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.

BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.

money will not save you from enemy . rohingya episode is an example did mayanmar asked you about your GDP - EXPORTS -TAX RATE - FOREX RESERVES before pumping one million rohingya to your country ?no they did not .
i am not trolling but there is a story

A famous account describes how Hulagu imprisoned the caliph in a roomful of treasure and brought him gold on a tray instead of food. The caliph protested that he could not eat gold, and Hulagu asked him why he hadn’t used his money to strengthen his army and defend against the Mongols.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.

What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.

BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.

BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.

Not only is $3bn the baseline of what it'd take to modernize an air force, but for a country such as Bangladesh -- i.e. with good macro outlook -- it should be able to get a 10-15 year-term line-of-credit from Sweden to back the deal. It's doable.

This isn't about being a military state or not, the BAF has to reach a certain threshold of capability to meet minimum deterrence. IMO, with Myanmar and India, your air combat capabilities should be built on high availability, low service costs, comprehensive air and surface surveillance, and potent capability.

The Gripen + Erieye ER + Giraffe 4A/8A should do it, and even if it takes a $5 billion program spread across 20 years, it'd be worth it (outlay is $250 m a year).

 

[UKBengali]

Not only is $3bn the baseline of what it'd take to modernize an air force, but for a country such as Bangladesh -- i.e. with good macro outlook -- it should be able to get a 10-15 year-term line-of-credit from Sweden to back the deal. This isn't about being a military state or not, the BAF has to reach a certain threshold of capability to meet minimum deterrence.

Yak-130 were brought in 2013. At that time BD was not in any position fiscally to spend 3 billion US dollars on Gripens, AWACs and other equipment.

Now in 2018, the situation has totally changed with a much more improved BD economy and the US more likely to allow the sale of Gripen to BD with US engine due to Rohingya issue.

Let us wait and see as we will almost certainly see the fighter jet aircraft contract signed next year.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yak-130 were brought in 2013. At that time BD was not in any position fiscally to spend 3 billion US dollars on Gripens, AWACs and other equipment.

Now in 2018, the situation has totally changed with a much more improved BD economy and the US more likely to allow the sale of Gripen to BD with US engine due to Rohingya issue.

Let us wait and see as we will almost certainly see the fighter jet aircraft contract signed next year.

They shouldn't have gotten the Yak-130 at all. Just delay all purchases until the fighter is first selected, and then move from there. But now, you're on the hook for Yak-130s while having a number of other, but bigger, priorities.

 

[UKBengali]

They shouldn't have gotten the Yak-130 at all. Just delay all purchases until the fighter is first selected, and then move from there. But now, you're on the hook for Yak-130s while having a number of other, but bigger, priorities.

Easy to say that with hindsight but BAF kind of like needs a heavy fighter like SU-30 and that is likely the rational behind the YAK-130 purchase.