Baloch-Pakhtun rivalry rears its head at CPEC meeting

[SQ8]

Shocking .......
I try to stay away from internal politics but your comments need rebuttal.
You do realise that your migrants in a ocean that makes maybe 7% of the population?
You do know that your people who were not lucky to enjoy 'our' hospitality live in hidous conditions in the swamps of Ganges ..?
Instead of showing respect to the hosts look what your saying?

Shocking to see you reply in kind. What is even hilarious is that it is these very migrants that formed the core of the independence movement. Your suggesting that instead of being treated as equals they should always play grateful and be wary of being thrown into the ocean?

Disappointed.

w
what next? we should just kill each others..na rhey ga pakistan and na rhey ghi rivalry

Maybe that is the solution?

 

[django]

Watch what you say about the Prophet PBUH, he was a Hanif before he got the call from God.

Ban this rockstar08 murtad, laak lanant on him and his gustaf kind

 

[SQ8]

he belongs to the community that were involved in Idol worship ... that is what i mean to say ...
he never was convinced with idea of Worshiping idols that i know ,

I would be very careful with what you say about the Prophet. His stature is for none to comment on be it the Wahabbi arseholes or any other human.. let alone you.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Shocking to see you reply in kind. What is even hilarious is that it is these very migrants that formed the core of the independence movement. Your suggesting that instead of being treated as equals they should always play grateful and be wary of being thrown into the ocean?

Context please. Any comment taken out of context amounts to being tampered with. I never said any community is lesser of any other. I have constantly reminded people of this and by disposition I will stand by the underdog or one being unfairly treated.

This gentleman ( Rockstar ) had taken a swipe against the four main ethnic groups of Pakistan. I had reserved my views because of the divisive nature of these discussins and in particular anything to do with Karachi but his comments precipitated my outburst but I stand by what I said.

These migrants were just one of the pillars of the Pakistan movement an it's success. Without the four provinces electing to go along this 'core independance movement' would have remained a pie in the sky. As I said without land you can't even erect a dog kennel.

So please spare me this especial treatment of this community in regards to the creation of Pakistan. In fact Pakistan movement never set out to create Pakistan. It almost happened through accident. The only people who pushed per se as a idea for Pakistan were Sir Allama Iqbal and Rahmat Ali in 1930 and 1933. The former a Kashmiri the latter a Punjabi not that matters.

The only especial thing about this community was that in 1947 they were more animated and educated because of the threat from the Hindu majority from where they came from. So they managed to carve a unfair portion of the new state of Pakistan in 1947. This near monoploy of the state only was wrested from them by Ayub Khan. In fact the army take over amounted to the state being taken over by the Pashtun/Punjabi nexus and you can see how the capital was shifted to the area where the army drew it's lifeforce - the Mardan, Potohar, Jhelum, Lahore GT road belt which still to this day is source of the lionshare of military manpower.

In fact the army takeover was because ML had no roots in the Pakistan. We lost Kashmir because most of the ML leadership had no real emotional reflex for Kashmir. They in fact had illusions of Hyderabad, Junagadh and other places where they came from. In fact the hero of Kashmir, General Akbar Khan, had he been given proper support by the ML leadership would have easily freed all of Kashmir which would have spared 70 years of misery of the Kashmiri, the Pakistani people and in fact even the Indians. Have a look how Indian's integrated Hyderabad into India and then compare the jackass joke we had in Kashmir. Liaquat Khan in fact displayed nothing but treachery in regards to Kashmir and all I can say is he met his due accountant.

Akbar Khan (Pakistani general) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read a book by Brigadier Ingals who set up PMA Kakul and he says in 1948 his first batch of cadets almost mutinied because they felt Kashmir was not being given the attention and resources it needed. That discontent was one of the reasons behind the Rawalpindi conspiracy. This was because there was misgiving within the army as to the way Kashmir issue was handled and in particular lack of priority given to it. Kashmir issue was close to their hearts as most men came from the bordering districts of J&K in Punjab and K-PK. As a comparison compare how India sorted out the Maharaja of Hyderabad and his much larger state then J&K. Fast, focussed and furious. Job done.

Indian integration of Hyderabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At any rate post Ayub taking over slowly the Punjabi/Pashtun elite managed to gain foothold in the Pakistan state. However the mohajir's turned Karachi into their mandated territory like Jews treated Palestine. That franchise has more or less continued however as pressure has been felt on their franchise which is natural because of population dynamics ( a sort of reverse of 1947 is going on. In 1947 Karachi went through abrupt population change as migrants changed the face of the city well now it is being undone ) and the result you see the turf war.

What I find annoying is while poor Punjabi and Pashtun boy's stand on the border gaurding against India Karachi has been turned into mini vassal state by MQM. at least now the army has taken note and might do something about this.

The bottom line is no community is special in Pakistan. however even a perfunctory study of Pakistan and you can see media is dominated by Mohajir community who use it to give narrative that is skewed and reminds me of the American media. If you want you can a dedicated thread where I am prepared to argue my case with facts and reason.

And as regards illegal imigrants how many millions does Karachi have from India? Nobody even talks about that and is that not threat to security as RAW can mix their people like fish to water?

Religion.

I am also against Islam being harvested by any community to peddle their agenda. The problem in Pakistan is almost at every turn to gain political mileage people will use Islam like a private asset which is wrong. You should not trivalize faith to garner political ends. I never do, Rockstar started to use Islam as if that somehow justified his argument.

Edit: The only reason why India did not squash Pakistan like a bug in 1947 is we ended up with a very large portion of the British Indian Army. This was because large amount of it was recruited from Peshawar, Mardan, Potohar, Lahore GT road axis. Please read the link below. In fact Rawalpindi Cantonment, HQ Northern Command was one of the largest active combat commands in the British Empire. This is the reason Pakistan survived and still survives.

Create disunity and break this Peshawar, Mardan, Potohar, Jhelum, Lahore axis and see how fast Pakistan will crumble ...

However one of the biggest success of Pakistan has been the slow but sure integration of this belt and despite what people say Pakistan is on firm mooring but we should not belittle the peoples of this area.

http://www.csas.ed.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/48674/WP24_Shaheed_Hussain.pdf

 

[KingMamba]

Ban this rockstar08 murtad, laak lanant on him and his gustaf kind

I do not believe he said that on purpose, maybe he did not know better do not be so harsh on him.

 

[django]

I do not believe he said that on purpose, maybe he did not know better do not be so harsh on him.

He should learn to think before he comments on such issues ,what audacity this little cretin aka rockstar08 has, he should fear ALLAH (saw) and beg for forgiveness.

 

[Pakistani E]

He should learn to think before he comments on such issues ,what audacity this little cretin aka rockstar08 has, he should fear ALLAH (saw) and beg for forgiveness.

Calm down mumtaz qadri. It was a genuine mistake.

 

[django]

Calm down mumtaz qadri. It was a genuine mistake.

When it comes the messenger of ALLAH (saw) I find it hard to calm down, how do you know it was a genuine mistake or the arrogant incorrect opinion of a mardood. shame on you for defending such a bartil.

 

[DesiGuy]

He should learn to think before he comments on such issues ,what audacity this little cretin aka rockstar08 has, he should fear ALLAH (saw) and beg for forgiveness.

Not allah, but you. He should fear from you. There is no difference between you and the blood thirsty mob in pakistan. Thy guy would have been burned already had he said in person.

 

[django]

Not allah, but you. He should fear from you. There is no difference between you and the blood thirsty mob in pakistan. Thy guy would have been burned already had he said in person.

I am strongly opposed to the attacks on Christians which in most cases have absolutely nothing to do with blasphemy and religion. I believe in the due process of law, If this rockstar08 comments occurred in front of me, i would simply register an FIR against him not burn him alive as you presume. No sir Islam is not an barbaric religion.

 

[ZYXW]

OK genius..... let's replace the feudalism, however, with what? Bhattaism? Bhai-ism? Target-kill-ism? Organized-crime-ism?

I knowww........ we should go for target-kill......and I think you and I should give the country a demo though so they do it right.....i'll be the target, you get to kill haha

 

[SQ8]

Context please. Any comment taken out of context amounts to being tampered with. I never said any community is lesser of any other. I have constantly reminded people of this and by disposition I will stand by the underdog or one being unfairly treated.

This gentleman ( Rockstar ) had taken a swipe against the four main ethnic groups of Pakistan. I had reserved my views because of the divisive nature of these discussins and in particular anything to do with Karachi but his comments precipitated my outburst but I stand by what I said.

These migrants were just one of the pillars of the Pakistan movement an it's success. Without the four provinces electing to go along this 'core independance movement' would have remained a pie in the sky. As I said without land you can't even erect a dog kennel.

So please spare me this especial treatment of this community in regards to the creation of Pakistan. In fact Pakistan movement never set out to create Pakistan. It almost happened through accident. The only people who pushed per se as a idea for Pakistan were Sir Allama Iqbal and Rahmat Ali in 1930 and 1933. The former a Kashmiri the latter a Punjabi not that matters.

The only especial thing about this community was that in 1947 they were more animated and educated because of the threat from the Hindu majority from where they came from. So they managed to carve a unfair portion of the new state of Pakistan in 1947. This near monoploy of the state only was wrested from them by Ayub Khan. In fact the army take over amounted to the state being taken over by the Pashtun/Punjabi nexus and you can see how the capital was shifted to the area where the army drew it's lifeforce - the Mardan, Potohar, Jhelum, Lahore GT road belt which still to this day is source of the lionshare of military manpower.

In fact the army takeover was because ML had no roots in the Pakistan. We lost Kashmir because most of the ML leadership had no real emotional reflex for Kashmir. They in fact had illusions of Hyderabad, Junagadh and other places where they came from. In fact the hero of Kashmir, General Akbar Khan, had he been given proper support by the ML leadership would have easily freed all of Kashmir which would have spared 70 years of misery of the Kashmiri, the Pakistani people and in fact even the Indians. Have a look how Indian's integrated Hyderabad into India and then compare the jackass joke we had in Kashmir. Liaquat Khan in fact displayed nothing but treachery in regards to Kashmir and all I can say is he met his due accountant.

Akbar Khan (Pakistani general) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read a book by Brigadier Ingals who set up PMA Kakul and he says in 1948 his first batch of cadets almost mutinied because they felt Kashmir was not being given the attention and resources it needed. That discontent was one of the reasons behind the Rawalpindi conspiracy. This was because there was misgiving within the army as to the way Kashmir issue was handled and in particular lack of priority given to it. Kashmir issue was close to their hearts as most men came from the bordering districts of J&K in Punjab and K-PK. As a comparison compare how India sorted out the Maharaja of Hyderabad and his much larger state then J&K. Fast, focussed and furious. Job done.

Indian integration of Hyderabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At any rate post Ayub taking over slowly the Punjabi/Pashtun elite managed to gain foothold in the Pakistan state. However the mohajir's turned Karachi into their mandated territory like Jews treated Palestine. That franchise has more or less continued however as pressure has been felt on their franchise which is natural because of population dynamics ( a sort of reverse of 1947 is going on. In 1947 Karachi went through abrupt population change as migrants changed the face of the city well now it is being undone ) and the result you see the turf war.

What I find annoying is while poor Punjabi and Pashtun boy's stand on the border gaurding against India Karachi has been turned into mini vassal state by MQM. at least now the army has taken note and might do something about this.

The bottom line is no community is special in Pakistan. however even a perfunctory study of Pakistan and you can see media is dominated by Mohajir community who use it to give narrative that is skewed and reminds me of the American media. If you want you can a dedicated thread where I am prepared to argue my case with facts and reason.

And as regards illegal imigrants how many millions does Karachi have from India? Nobody even talks about that and is that not threat to security as RAW can mix their people like fish to water?

Religion.

I am also against Islam being harvested by any community to peddle their agenda. The problem in Pakistan is almost at every turn to gain political mileage people will use Islam like a private asset which is wrong. You should not trivalize faith to garner political ends. I never do, Rockstar started to use Islam as if that somehow justified his argument.

Edit: The only reason why India did not squash Pakistan like a bug in 1947 is we ended up with a very large portion of the British Indian Army. This was because large amount of it was recruited from Peshawar, Mardan, Potohar, Lahore GT road axis. Please read the link below. In fact Rawalpindi Cantonment, HQ Northern Command was one of the largest active combat commands in the British Empire. This is the reason Pakistan survived and still survives.

Create disunity and break this Peshawar, Mardan, Potohar, Jhelum, Lahore axis and see how fast Pakistan will crumble ...

However one of the biggest success of Pakistan has been the slow but sure integration of this belt and despite what people say Pakistan is on firm mooring but we should not belittle the peoples of this area.

http://www.csas.ed.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/48674/WP24_Shaheed_Hussain.pdf

Your argument is no different than his except packaged better. In simple terms you essentially downplayed the entire contribution on mere nothingness and seem to attribute the survival of the country to the good old "martial race" hint that is propagated throughout the length of your post.

The whole Pashtun-Punjabi elite ideal was no generosity by them but rather engineered. With quota systems and nepotism ruling the roost till today. As if the Baloch people are less capable of defending Pakistan or the Sindhis. It only objectifies a mentality that considers certain races more equal than others.
If the poster's swipe only revealed these thoughts I find it odd that you keep them at bay. This is the simple problem with Pakistan today, the disunity within the nation is a consequence of this impartial domination of civil servant and military service quotas by the two provinces that has led to the Baloch wanting their own state and others soon to follow.

As for the rather laughable idea of losing Kashmir, let me remind you that it was the key leadership of ML from UP that proposed the military intervention for Kashmir in 47-48 along with all other territories that were supposedly Pakistanis.
Rather, it was the stupidity of Ayub when he was given the option of taking Kashmir in return for dropping the Hyderabad-Junagarh issue that is missed out when the distorted history that we are taught by these two P elites is stated.

Suddenly those poor boys guarding the country have to end up being used against their "own" people much like it was with Bangladesh? Where these poor boys committed atrocities under the guise of "protecting" this so called "crucial" alliance between the two larger communities?
And what was the result of that attitude? 70000 of these poor boys returned with shoes on their faces and their supposed thankful people not even bothering to look at them. Good show.

As for your link, perhaps you should go through the initials ideals that it proposes that the very "Punjabization" of the Army ended up being a source of dissent within other provinces in the Raj. It to this day forces that divide between the provinces and prevents integration of both the majority and the minority, creating that angst the keeps both from reconciling their differences and working together.
This paragraph completely takes your own post and turns it onto its head, something that you seem to have missed when

Thus, the tradition of British military recruitment in the North West of the subcontinent (Punjab and NWFP), was a major factor in the emergence of Pakistan as a quasi-militarised country. It was a country with a weak political structure, feeble political parties and politicians, but a strong feudal class and civil and military bureaucracy. This naturally ‘consolidated the linkages between the military service, agricultural land and political power’
Hence the Muslim League, due to its weak control within the newly created country, had to abdicate in favour of a stronger giant, the Pakistan Army. With the firm support of the feudal class, more agricultural land under its domain, and with its organisational and professional culture, the Pakistan Army began to assert its political role in the hub of the country’s politics. The irony of fate is that it lacked political training. Hence, the Army ran the country like a defence establishment by increasing the defence budget, having defence pacts, and appointing defence services people in the policy making bodies of the country, with effects that ultimately were to be deleterious in the future development of the country

Sadly, this country and its people are not very keen on history besides anything that goes +/- 10% the core syllabus taught in school.

I am strongly opposed to the attacks on Christians which in most cases have absolutely nothing to do with blasphemy and religion. I believe in the due process of law, If this rockstar08 comments occurred in front of me, i would simply register an FIR against him not burn him alive as you presume. No sir Islam is not an barbaric religion.

You seem to portray it as such.

 

[ito]

Context please. Any comment taken out of context amounts to being tampered with. I never said any community is lesser of any other. I have constantly reminded people of this and by disposition I will stand by the underdog or one being unfairly treated.

This gentleman ( Rockstar ) had taken a swipe against the four main ethnic groups of Pakistan. I had reserved my views because of the divisive nature of these discussins and in particular anything to do with Karachi but his comments precipitated my outburst but I stand by what I said.

These migrants were just one of the pillars of the Pakistan movement an it's success. Without the four provinces electing to go along this 'core independance movement' would have remained a pie in the sky. As I said without land you can't even erect a dog kennel.

So please spare me this especial treatment of this community in regards to the creation of Pakistan. In fact Pakistan movement never set out to create Pakistan. It almost happened through accident. The only people who pushed per se as a idea for Pakistan were Sir Allama Iqbal and Rahmat Ali in 1930 and 1933. The former a Kashmiri the latter a Punjabi not that matters.

The only especial thing about this community was that in 1947 they were more animated and educated because of the threat from the Hindu majority from where they came from. So they managed to carve a unfair portion of the new state of Pakistan in 1947. This near monoploy of the state only was wrested from them by Ayub Khan. In fact the army take over amounted to the state being taken over by the Pashtun/Punjabi nexus and you can see how the capital was shifted to the area where the army drew it's lifeforce - the Mardan, Potohar, Jhelum, Lahore GT road belt which still to this day is source of the lionshare of military manpower.

In fact the army takeover was because ML had no roots in the Pakistan. We lost Kashmir because most of the ML leadership had no real emotional reflex for Kashmir. They in fact had illusions of Hyderabad, Junagadh and other places where they came from. In fact the hero of Kashmir, General Akbar Khan, had he been given proper support by the ML leadership would have easily freed all of Kashmir which would have spared 70 years of misery of the Kashmiri, the Pakistani people and in fact even the Indians. Have a look how Indian's integrated Hyderabad into India and then compare the jackass joke we had in Kashmir. Liaquat Khan in fact displayed nothing but treachery in regards to Kashmir and all I can say is he met his due accountant.

Akbar Khan (Pakistani general) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read a book by Brigadier Ingals who set up PMA Kakul and he says in 1948 his first batch of cadets almost mutinied because they felt Kashmir was not being given the attention and resources it needed. That discontent was one of the reasons behind the Rawalpindi conspiracy. This was because there was misgiving within the army as to the way Kashmir issue was handled and in particular lack of priority given to it. Kashmir issue was close to their hearts as most men came from the bordering districts of J&K in Punjab and K-PK. As a comparison compare how India sorted out the Maharaja of Hyderabad and his much larger state then J&K. Fast, focussed and furious. Job done.

Indian integration of Hyderabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At any rate post Ayub taking over slowly the Punjabi/Pashtun elite managed to gain foothold in the Pakistan state. However the mohajir's turned Karachi into their mandated territory like Jews treated Palestine. That franchise has more or less continued however as pressure has been felt on their franchise which is natural because of population dynamics ( a sort of reverse of 1947 is going on. In 1947 Karachi went through abrupt population change as migrants changed the face of the city well now it is being undone ) and the result you see the turf war.

What I find annoying is while poor Punjabi and Pashtun boy's stand on the border gaurding against India Karachi has been turned into mini vassal state by MQM. at least now the army has taken note and might do something about this.

The bottom line is no community is special in Pakistan. however even a perfunctory study of Pakistan and you can see media is dominated by Mohajir community who use it to give narrative that is skewed and reminds me of the American media. If you want you can a dedicated thread where I am prepared to argue my case with facts and reason.

And as regards illegal imigrants how many millions does Karachi have from India? Nobody even talks about that and is that not threat to security as RAW can mix their people like fish to water?

Religion.

I am also against Islam being harvested by any community to peddle their agenda. The problem in Pakistan is almost at every turn to gain political mileage people will use Islam like a private asset which is wrong. You should not trivalize faith to garner political ends. I never do, Rockstar started to use Islam as if that somehow justified his argument.

Edit: The only reason why India did not squash Pakistan like a bug in 1947 is we ended up with a very large portion of the British Indian Army. This was because large amount of it was recruited from Peshawar, Mardan, Potohar, Lahore GT road axis. Please read the link below. In fact Rawalpindi Cantonment, HQ Northern Command was one of the largest active combat commands in the British Empire. This is the reason Pakistan survived and still survives.

Create disunity and break this Peshawar, Mardan, Potohar, Jhelum, Lahore axis and see how fast Pakistan will crumble ...

However one of the biggest success of Pakistan has been the slow but sure integration of this belt and despite what people say Pakistan is on firm mooring but we should not belittle the peoples of this area.

http://www.csas.ed.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/48674/WP24_Shaheed_Hussain.pdf

Pakistan was not the idea of Allama Iqbal. Allama Iqbal wanted Muslim majority states in united India to have more autonomy.

 

[Sine Nomine]

The claims of Baloch nationalist need to be investigated, they claim big chunk of Pashtuns in Balochistan are not natives but "Afghanis" from Afghanistan. They say there are four million Afghani refugees in the province, obviously labeling entire 4 million Pashtun population of Balochistan as refugees.

Achakzai issued million of id's to afghan's through some moron in NADRA to increase his
vote bank......

 

[I.R.A]

I don't believe Baloch political leaders are some angels, but this Achakzai is a thug. If Pakhtoons in Balochistan really want to prosper, then better to burn this Achakzai idiot and his brother themselves.