Balance Of Air Power In South Asia

[Windjammer]

So far agreed with your point. But take note, I ignore that guy post most of time. But some occasion, even mods that when they loose patience..

Just what is your freaking problem, you have turned a perfect thread into a your cry baby antics.... with 20 shiners you are exactly no snow white...take your randi rona to the appropriate section. Think you own this forum or something.

 

[Arsalan]

So far agreed with your point. But take note, I ignore that guy post most of time. But some occasion, even mods that when they loose patience..

Again, REPORT it and if still feel the need take it up in relevant thread. Now i think we have wasted enough posts on this thread derailing it so lets get back to topic.

Regards!

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

After which ? The program will be officially killed?

Google AMCA and AURA.
The contribution of LCA/Tejas towards Indian Aero R&D will show in these future projects.
The contributors to this project from all over India:

 

[ziaulislam]

Iaf itself has floated the tender for new jet so....

IAF will keep every body happy, lots of kick backs is routine in such countries..
dont be surprised that in addition to rafale, LCA(limited no.s), and the new single jet engine, they float another tender.
my guess would be that IAF will acquire gripen and will float a tender again for f-16 vs f-18

 

[syed_yusuf]

IAF will keep every body happy, lots of kick backs is routine in such countries..
dont be surprised that in addition to rafale, LCA(limited no.s), and the new single jet engine, they float another tender.
my guess would be that IAF will acquire gripen and will float a tender again for f-16 vs f-18

That will be awesome I dare India to do that are they poor ? ? ? ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

You won't understand it kid.F16s are enough to kill your mai whereas jf17 is well enough to kill your flying coffins,mirages and jaguars.If any doubt in mind dare to cross the border. Our shaheens are ready.

So it is proven that you are a mature guy who knows it all, including how and why F16s are superior to MKIs, and how JF17 gets the capability to combat Mirages and Jaguars. You forgot to add that your MANPADs can shoot down the Rafale.

Your shaheens may be ready. Unfortunately, you don't seem to be.

Is this the reason why you did not dare to cross loc during kargil. ?

No, that is not the reason, and no, the LOC was crossed frequently during Kargil. You might like to read the account given by your own Shaheen, Air Cdre Kaisar Tufail, PAF (retd.).

Please do your homework before doing your dog-and-pony show.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Balance is the WRONG word

The thread title should be
"Current and Future Imbalance of Air power in South Asia"

With PAKFA ; MKI ; Rafale and Maybe F 16 Block 70
and Mig 29 Upgraded and Mirage 2000 Upgraded

Indian Air Force will be Neighbors envy and Owner's Pride Kind of thing

 

[Joe Shearer]

lol who is going to come help India, Ghostbusters?

Why would we need help?

Sir with due respect , i disagree with you .. Actually if you imagine a Full Scale War Scenario , majority of the Air Battles will be fought over either Pakistani Air space, or on the border Area .. PAF will be invading Indian Air Space only when they find a lose Opportunity to bomb Air Field and SAM location , that too can be done by Stand off weapons like Raad .. if you see the Scenario all together , PAF is very well capable of Defending its skies against India ... but they do have Numerical Superiority which means very little if you consider the above situation + the very well Protected Net Centric Environment with 3 level Air Defense Systems ..

There is something wrong in your logic, when you assume that the PAF can operate from within Pakistani air space and dominate a much larger air space and land mass, but that the IAF has to penetrate Pakistani air space to do anything substantial. Does the IAF not have substantial stand off weaponry?r

They are not invincible, but they have massive conventional superiority over their foes. That makes nations nervous and very hesitant to engage them. I didn't say the Chinese will fight for Pakistan . I said the India will "worry" about them, the extent of that depends on many things.
By the way, the four front you talk of, which nations will they derive from?

At the level of airy-fairy nothings Pakistan does have a western front, which is not exactly passive at the moment. And China has been ratcheting up the tension on her maritime boundaries for some time now. the Philippines has caved in, Malaysia shows distinct signs of doing that, but there are still pockets of resistance. The USA, for instance.

These are for the sake of argument. Personally, I don't believe that the situation is bad enough to contemplate even Pakistan and China mounting joint operations, leave alone a larger multilateral outbreak of hostility.

There is no disagreement that we are short of some Flankers or heavy weight fighters specifically for Anti-ship Role .. but even if we assume that PAF is far stretched, but if we see the Navy and their Recent Purchases they are more into building a potent Sub force , now what i am assuming here that once we start to get our Chinese AIP Subs than navy will not be on Defensive , they will be more of a threat to any Challenge presented by IN and its Naval arm ... i'd say without any Doubt that if the War stretched for more than 1 week we will be in trouble and Pakistan has to be lucky all the time on every front they will open ..

To put things in your terms, we need to ask if the AIP subs will be so located as to be able to get some gains within the one week that you postulate (which is probably correct).

EXACTLY. And our nuclear weapons will guarantee Pakistan's survival. Not to me



No you didn't attack because you can't. Anything else is just sugar coating to hide the painful fact that india does not have the ability to carry out a successful military attack against Pakistan. The Indian military high command are FULLY aware of Pakistan's SAM and our thermonuclear capabilities which is why they refuse to attack Pakistan despite being at least 7× bigger than Pakistan and having abundant access to all the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst being denied that privilege ourselves:

http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/

I'm afraid that the facts aren't on your side.

1. The restrictions - the rigid restrictions - put on the IAF and the IA by the political leadership are well known. Even the Americans, approached by Nawaz Sharif in dire straits, knew all about them, and knew that he was facing a disastrous situation in spite of that.
2. The weakness of the Pakistani side has been put before all of us very bluntly: after the initial period of display of mutual machismo, with radar locks on each other, the PAF reverted to combat air patrols and less and less of those due to shortages of spares. Please read Kaisar Tufail.
3. In spite of everything, some fanboys make it a pointer of superiority or of domination to argue that the IAF never crossed the LOC. The fact is that it did so repeatedly and frequently, with no specific aggressive intent, because the LOC is a tortured, twisted line at most points. This is the case of the dog that did not bark at night. The PAF was on CAP but never reacted to these numberless breaches of the LOC. Work it out.

Pakistan needs sizeable acquisitions of surface ships, or of domestically built ships. Submarines will not cut it. Also being lucky on every front is a very precarious position to be in.

I personally feel that a shore-based missile defence, and a supplementary maritime patrol aircraft line with stand-off weapons is the best combination and the most that can be sensibly defended. If the hostilities don't last more than a week, what will the surface ships do, besides playing tom-fool games with the IN during peacetime?

Again , you missed the whole point ... and you are putting words in my mouth so i guess there is no reason to even debate with you by keeping the level head ... to me you seems like Indian version of Zarvan ..

OUCH!

That stung!

Take it easy; I suspect he's deliberately baiting you.

What's there to get? For the 1st time in recorded human history a nation has repelled & fended off enemy neighbour that's more than 7x bigger than itself and that has abundant access to all the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst being denied that privilege itself. That is an unprecedented feat and a virtually impossible task to achieve. Yet Pakistan has been doing it for nearly 70 years.

Think you are getting a little frustrated due to your "lesser man" syndrome :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

Three times in recorded history - four times, counting efforts to recovery Siachen from an alleged Indian intrusion - one nation has attacked the other, and failed every time. In those circumstances to claim any kind of victory due to having survived is startlingly funny. All that Pakistan needed to do was not demonstrate its strength and skill at fighting off a neighbour 7 times bigger, but just keep within her own borders, and refrain from mounting an attack.

 

[SQ8]

Why would we need help?



There is something wrong in your logic, when you assume that the PAF can operate from within Pakistani air space and dominate a much larger air space and land mass, but that the IAF has to penetrate Pakistani air space to do anything substantial. Does the IAF not have substantial stand off weaponry?r



At the level of airy-fairy nothings Pakistan does have a western front, which is not exactly passive at the moment. And China has been ratcheting up the tension on her maritime boundaries for some time now. the Philippines has caved in, Malaysia shows distinct signs of doing that, but there are still pockets of resistance. The USA, for instance.

These are for the sake of argument. Personally, I don't believe that the situation is bad enough to contemplate even Pakistan and China mounting joint operations, leave alone a larger multilateral outbreak of hostility.



To put things in your terms, we need to ask if the AIP subs will be so located as to be able to get some gains within the one week that you postulate (which is probably correct).



I'm afraid that the facts aren't on your side.

1. The restrictions - the rigid restrictions - put on the IAF and the IA by the political leadership are well known. Even the Americans, approached by Nawaz Sharif in dire straits, knew all about them, and knew that he was facing a disastrous situation in spite of that.
2. The weakness of the Pakistani side has been put before all of us very bluntly: after the initial period of display of mutual machismo, with radar locks on each other, the PAF reverted to combat air patrols and less and less of those due to shortages of spares. Please read Kaisar Tufail.
3. In spite of everything, some fanboys make it a pointer of superiority or of domination to argue that the IAF never crossed the LOC. The fact is that it did so repeatedly and frequently, with no specific aggressive intent, because the LOC is a tortured, twisted line at most points. This is the case of the dog that did not bark at night. The PAF was on CAP but never reacted to these numberless breaches of the LOC. Work it out.

I personally feel that a shore-based missile defence, and a supplementary maritime patrol aircraft line with stand-off weapons is the best combination and the most that can be sensibly defended. If the hostilities don't last more than a week, what will the surface ships do, besides playing tom-fool games with the IN during peacetime?

The replies to many a similar posts in a thousand similar threads over 7 years... once again , into the breach @Joe Shearer .. suggest you keep a folder with pre written responses on your desktop. Such repetitive and meaningless threads shall never end.

1. To put it mildly, the khaki puttars have sweaty palms and the saffron lady doth protest too much.

2. Weaknesses offset by assymetric advantages along with the inherent one that goes to any the KNOW how to fly and fight over their own turf.

3.the number of peacetime technicalities are mind boggling at times. The LOC is "crossed" all time during sabre rattling , by fighters and pigeons alike. Although only one truly warrants capture as a good homing pigeon is a rare find and takes years of training by a seasoned kabootar baz.

 

[Joe Shearer]

When you don't have a comeback after you get roasted;

What roasting?

Every time the argument was going badly, that URL came out. In effect, we can't beat you any other way, so we'll beat you because man-to-man, we're better. The BBC says so.

Do you realise how hollow and ridiculous that sounds?

Facts are too hard to deal with so you cut it with conjecture and snide remarks

The facts were going well, so what Aunt Sally said Cousin Fred might do if Brother John didn't behave came out. Apart from the URL, and repeated insistence that the Pakistani soldier was better than the Indian (which has been tested time and again on the sports field and found to be statistically incorrect), you retreated from every single argument. Presenting a wide variety of emoticons really doesn't represent a successful defence; it represents an unwilling to face facts.

The replies to many a similar posts in a thousand similar threads over 7 years... once again , into the breach @Joe Shearer .. suggest you keep a folder with pre written responses on your desktop. Such repetitive and meaningless threads shall never end.

1. To put it mildly, the khaki puttars have sweaty palms and the saffron lady doth protest too much.

2. Weaknesses offset by assymetric advantages along with the inherent one that goes to any the KNOW how to fly and fight over their own turf.

3.the number of peacetime technicalities are mind boggling at times. The LOC is "crossed" all time during sabre rattling , by fighters and pigeons alike. Although only one truly warrants capture as a good homing pigeon is a rare find and takes years of training by a seasoned kabootar baz.

I can do better, and shall. I shall copy this masterly and terse little note, which carries everything needed, and simply reproduce it.

Others abide the question, Maestro; you stand alone. Salut.

PS: It has been saved as The Oscar Riposte. Sounded less terminal than The Oscar Skewer.

Bang Galore showed up out of nowhere recently. It gave me an opportunity to compare my three different masters and laugh at myself and at your contrasting styles. Niaz Sahib's simple, lucid rightness, your acid-dipped epigrams and Bang Galore's amused scepticism.

 

[TylerDurden07]

any professional analysis of IAF (+) and (-) from PAF pov and vice versa?

 

[salarsikander]

Google AMCA and AURA.
The contribution of LCA/Tejas towards Indian Aero R&D will show in these future projects.
The contributors to this project from all over India:

What contribution exactly? A program that is being killed as we speak. Can barely stand up for itself let alone assisting other programs

 

[Surya 1]

And that is not bad.

Whatever the number, only some 60% are operational.

 

[GURU DUTT]

What contribution exactly? A program that is being killed as we speak. Can barely stand up for itself let alone assisting other programs

which programme is being killed as we speak please care to elborate ?

 

[YeBeWarned]

There is something wrong in your logic, when you assume that the PAF can operate from within Pakistani air space and dominate a much larger air space and land mass, but that the IAF has to penetrate Pakistani air space to do anything substantial. Does the IAF not have substantial stand off weaponry?r

that is what i was trying to tell him , that the Majority of battles might be fought over the border areas , and yea IAF does have the Stand-Off weaponry, i would said it to him if he didn't indulge me into the trolling that IAF needs to be lucky once to attack any target in PAF ... but PAF has to be lucky all the time .

To put things in your terms, we need to ask if the AIP subs will be so located as to be able to get some gains within the one week that you postulate (which is probably correct).

Honestly speaking , i have little knowledge but If i go by the Logic of Indian media and your Armed Forces actually believe in what they say in Reports , so if PN takes the Aggressive Approach towards the IN carrier groups it might get them a little advantage .. but again there is no surety of it cause IN has Pi8 patrolling over the Carrier groups so it wont be easy as i describe .. that is why i always and never support a war .

OUCH!

That stung!

Take it easy; I suspect he's deliberately baiting you.

yeah Joe i get it that is why i stopped Responding ..

Hope you get the email i sent. .

Regards