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Bal Thakeray and Altaf Hussain

Puchtoon

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Bal Thakeray died on 16 November 2012 and Hindustan Times headlined the news Bal Thackeray the mascot of Marathi pride. It went on to describe his real power:

'Bal Thakeray protested the right of the Marathi on Mumbai, a city dominated by 'outsiders'. His pro-Marathi plank propounded Maharashtra for Maharashtrians, and chose even to offend his ally the BJP by backing Congress's presidential nominee, Pratibha Patil, who was a Maharashtrian'.

Economist (24 Nov 2012) wrote: 'He started his own cartoon weekly to document the injustices faced by Maharashtrians, "the sons of the soil". They were, he believed, second-class citizens in their own city. The tycoons, in their swanky palaces, came from outside: Gujaratis, Rajasthanis, Parsis. White-collar positions went to English-speakers, Iyers, Shahs and the rest: you could search in vain in an official phone directory for a single Marathi name. And every day he saw the city fill with migrant scum from all over India who stole jobs, picked pockets and used the street as a toilet'.



Two cities of India were conquered by Gujaratis: Bombay and Karachi. This happened because Gujarat had the only port in India - Surat - facing westward and its people had learned trade, acquiring a higher civic consciousness over time. Gujarat gave India its first finance minister Todar Mal under Akbar the Great. It gave to India its two great leaders, Gandhi and Jinnah, the latter also the founder of Pakistan.

Migrations lead to violence. Those who migrate clash with the local population on the basis of different identities. The immigrant is insecure because he wants a place under the sun; the local person is insecure because he fears losing his place under the sun. Fear gives way to hatred and hatred to violence.

Both in Bombay and Karachi the local populations were either marginalised or their relocation from countryside to the cities delayed through 'interloper' communities.

Bombay became Mumbai after growing big on the basis of India's internal migration. Karachi ousted its Hindus after 1947 and was swelled immediately with a massive wave of Urdu-speaking 'external' migrants from India. Pakistan was soft on these migrants because of ideology and language. The Sindhi person remained out of the reckoning - dangerously, because his nationalism was based on language like the Bengalis of East Pakistan.

Bal Thakeray used religion against the secular state of India; Altaf Hussain uses secularism against the ideological state of Pakistan

Because of state ideology, Sindhi nationalism did not prosper. No Bal Thakeray was produced by the Sindhis although many smaller ones came and went in the countryside. Instead, the emigre (muhajir) community produced Altaf Hussain.

Somewhat like Bal Thakeray in Mumbai, Altaf Hussain arose to power in Karachi, their only common traits being loyal ethnic following and use of violence. (Ethnic identity can be based on race, region and religion. Three-way ethnic violence in Karachi may postpone democracy as it has in Iraq and Lebanon.) Ethnicity produces more durable violence than any other identity. More internal emigre communities in Karachi took to using strong-arm methods. Altaf Hussain opposed violent reaction with violent response.

Dutch scholar Oskar Verkaaik in his book Migrants and Militants: Fun and Urban Violence in Pakistan (Princeton University Press, 2004) studied MQM as a street movement of karate club youths that moulded itself to Pakistan's electoral system and thus achieved validation.

Verkaaik wrote: 'The muhajir middle class support may have developed at the electoral level in the face of discrimination and reactive state and community violence in response to the MQM's own street aggression'.

Bal Thakeray became a symbol of violence in favour of the 'insider' Marathi community; Altaf Hussain became the symbol of violence in favour of the 'outsider' emigre community. Bal Thakeray used religion against the secular state of India; Altaf Hussain uses secularism against the ideological state of Pakistan.

In the 1980s, the decade was of Afghan jihad where General Zia had allowed the Jamaat Islami to emerge as the most powerful organiser of militias. The MQM soon found itself confronting the Jamaat in Karachi with the state backing the Islamic elements. When the muhajirs got into trouble with the Pushtuns, the Jamaat was reluctant to come to their help.

This resulted in a hostile 'secularisation' of the MQM which was anti-Zia and more akin to the non-fundamentalist Sindhi mystical ethos. This also resulted in the MQM-PPP alliance after the 1988 election. The label of 'new' Sindhis for muhajirs was developed in this brief period of honeymoon between parties that actually had more reason later on to fight each other.

In Karachi, communities hounded by religious extremism seek shelter from Altaf Hussain who, like Bal Thakeray, remains aloof from the politics he presides over. If Karachi is the stronghold of the Urdu-speaking muhajir community, it is also the biggest Pashtun city of the world. For the first time, the MQM is under pressure from Talibanisation, giving Altaf Hussain the kind of acceptance from Talibanisation's victims that Bal Thakeray never got in India.

Bal Thakeray challenged a functional Indian state and was therefore demonised by India; Altaf Hussain challenged a dysfunctional Pakistani state and achieved acceptance from political parties beleaguered by terrorism. The vanishing breed of 'liberals', hounded by a rightwing media, want Altaf Hussain to succeed because he is the only man who can respond to the violence of Taliban with violence.

Bal Thakeray found an ally in the BJP but BJP was not willing to let go its secular self-identification; Bal Thakeray's Shiv Sena was more radical. BJP feared getting a bad image through too much association with Shiv Sena. But MQM is a refuge of the threatened minorities from Karachi to Gilgit-Baltistan. ?


Analysis: Bal Thakeray and Altaf Hussain by Khaled Ahmed
 
there was no army operation done on bal terror thakerey, where as false flag army operation was done to ousted the urdu speakers from forming any political identity

also the migrants from india were educated and since pakistan creation there were few native people to support the state's function, if there were no migrants then pakistan state had already collapsed, all the big bureaucrats, politicians and big people belonged to guys migrated from india

quaid e azam had personally asked the muslims from india to take part in the nation building because few people were present in pakistan, quaid e azam too immigrated to new pakistan, he was mahajir himself, his daughter married a parsi so he left his daughter behind

there were riots in punjab but most of the areas comprising UP, bihar, hyderabad, gujrat etc were peaceful and there were no hindu muslim riots

there is a wrong perception that mahajirs came plundered from india, its was mostly the punjabis was came plundered because of the riots, but mahajirs came either to settle in a muslim country or to help in nation building
 
there was no army operation done on bal terror thakerey, where as false flag army operation was done to ousted the urdu speakers from forming any political identity

The difference is followers of BAL THACKREY didn't applied killing(mostly) as mean of fighting "outsiders" they mostly used manhandling as their weapon and after SHIVSENA(his party) came in alliance with BJP they became "little" soft on outsiders .

On the Other Side Altaf was on the top list of ARMY and ISI since early 90's (Remember Jinnapur ?) and we all know army ISI head the state of Pakistan conveniently .
 
[:::~Spartacus~:::];3684700 said:
there was no army operation done on bal terror thakerey, where as false flag army operation was done to ousted the urdu speakers from forming any political identity

also the migrants from india were educated and since pakistan creation there were few native people to support the state's function, if there were no migrants then pakistan state had already collapsed, all the big bureaucrats, politicians and big people belonged to guys migrated from india

quaid e azam had personally asked the muslims from india to take part in the nation building because few people were present in pakistan, quaid e azam too immigrated to new pakistan, he was mahajir himself, his daughter married a parsi so he left his daughter behind

there were riots in punjab but most of the areas comprising UP, bihar, hyderabad, gujrat etc were peaceful and there were no hindu muslim riots

there is a wrong perception that mahajirs came plundered from india, its was mostly the punjabis was came plundered because of the riots, but mahajirs came either to settle in a muslim country or to help in nation building
Unlike MQM walas i wonder if shive sainiks ever roamed with Aks in mumbai.
Army action on mQM was necessary to deweaponize karachi. and i think its about time Karachi needs another deweaponize operation.
 
Unlike MQM walas i wonder if shive sainiks ever roamed with Aks in mumbai.
Army action on mQM was necessary to deweaponize karachi. and i think its about time Karachi needs another deweaponize operation.

a lady from MP comes and lectures us about our history after carrying nothing but ignorance

bravo
 
The biggest problem with these reactionary studies is that Pakistan is now no longer a nation.
Its a state with nations who have now gone to war with each other, something not too different from Yugoslavia and yet very different.

The only common thing is that this state will not be able to last until a nation is formed.
With racism rampant on the forum here, one wonders if there is even any hope.
 
[:::~Spartacus~:::];3686747 said:
a lady from MP comes and lectures us about our history after carrying nothing but ignorance

bravo
why not? afterall its always the the MP wale like Abdul qadir khan who gave you of nazimabad types reason to jump in may every year.

I can lecture you in your house itself.
 
The biggest problem with these reactionary studies is that Pakistan is now no longer a nation.
Its a state with nations who have now gone to war with each other, something not too different from Yugoslavia and yet very different.

The only common thing is that this state will not be able to last until a nation is formed.
With racism rampant on the forum here, one wonders if there is even any hope.

The answer is democracy and none of these two be it baal thakray or altaf hussain are even close to being democratic leaders. Unity forms out of public representative governments and it takes time to mature. For a country, as young as Pakistan its very hard to make a judgement at this point in time.
 
why not? afterall its always the the MP wale like Abdul qadir khan who gave you of nazimabad types reason to jump in may every year.

I can lecture you in your house itself.

Question is, are the Gulshan-e-Iqbal and Nazimabad types unjustified?
 
The biggest problem with these reactionary studies is that Pakistan is now no longer a nation.
Its a state with nations who have now gone to war with each other, something not too different from Yugoslavia and yet very different.

The only common thing is that this state will not be able to last until a nation is formed.
With racism rampant on the forum here, one wonders if there is even any hope.

This forum if reflective of pakistanis sentiments, tells me that they are still in small numbers but they shout over you moderates and have a more vocal presence. Which puts the onus on you and the rest of moderates to gain back that voice and stage for the love of country. would that be a fair assessment?
 
Unlike MQM walas i wonder if shive sainiks ever roamed with Aks in mumbai.
Army action on mQM was necessary to deweaponize karachi. and i think its about time Karachi needs another deweaponize operation.

Shiv sena never made Mumbai as city of street gunbattles. I heard even rocket launchers are used in Karachi. Shiv Sena and MQM have different thoughts about each others' country.

Are you really from MP because I detected something else. I am sure you're not from Gwalior. :lol:
 
This forum if reflective of pakistanis sentiments, tells me that they are still in small numbers but they shout over you moderates and have a more vocal presence. Which puts the onus on you and the rest of moderates to gain back that voice and stage for the love of country. would that be a fair assessment?

Nope, the moderates are a disappearing minority. They are now all being marginalized into either "Dont care's" or extremism(religious, racial, political etc)
If someone was moderate, they would express those views.. if you are silent .. then you arent a moderate or extremist or whatever.. you are just a silent apathetic bystander who has no interest in this country's future.
The only interest is in the lowest of human need tier.. Biological needs.. and shelter.

Bhutto was right to use "Roti,Kapra and Makaan" since that is ALL that the majority of the people that inhabit this land care for.
The state and country, can be run by extremists and barbarians that shoot 11 year old girls as long as they get their "roti , Kapra and Makaan".
That is a realistic assessment.
 
Shiv sena never made Mumbai as city of street gunbattles. I heard even rocket launchers are used in Karachi. Shiv Sena and MQM have different thoughts about each others' country.

Are you really from MP because I detected something else. I am sure you're not from Gwalior. :lol:
Thats what i said.only people who ever owned AKs in mumbai were those of dawood gang and sanjay dutt.for that he should have still been in jail.

you can speak tamil but you are one i doubt it .
 
Nope, the moderates are a disappearing minority. They are now all being marginalized into either "Dont care's" or extremism(religious, racial, political etc)
If someone was moderate, they would express those views.. if you are silent .. then you arent a moderate or extremist or whatever.. you are just a silent apathetic bystander who has no interest in this country's future.
The only interest is in the lowest of human need tier.. Biological needs.. and shelter.

Bhutto was right to use "Roti,Kapra and Makaan" since that is ALL that the majority of the people that inhabit this land care for.
The state and country, can be run by extremists and barbarians that shoot 11 year old girls as long as they get their "roti , Kapra and Makaan".
That is a realistic assessment.

This is where I have more hope in my theory of moderates being larger numbers. I look at your elections and you seem to elect representatives as such. again " elections" not the military dictators who just hijacked the process. Have faith my brother!
 

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