Bal Thackeray and the rise of Shiv Sena in Maharashtra

[Gandhi G in da house]

Nick did you watch Raj's interview by Arnob?

Come on bro. He has his points. Listen and then brand him anti-national.

Btw, I am a Bihari now converted into a Maharashtrian..

I saw it and agree with a lot of the stuff that he says , but his methods are not proper . You see i was bothered as well when some muslims went on a rampage recently in Bombay and he still turned it into a Marathi vs North Indian issue when he knew it pretty damn well , that it wasn't about that.

In fact, All North Indian non-muslims and even moderate muslims were seething in anger here on the actions of those extremist muslims in Mumbai.

Shiv Sena cared about the country , all dharmic religions , Parsis , moderate muslims etc. MNS seems to care only about Marathis.

 

[sachin786]

There are videos on youtube of EDL taking on extremists in UK. Anyway , don't equate MNS with Shiv Sena , MNS is anti-national unlike Shiv Sena.

Raj is not a Anti-National either.

He speaks against a particular community from Bihar-UP not against entire Bihari-UP population.

He says no more immigrants to be allowed in mumbai but he didnt issued fatwas against up-biharis settled in mumbai a decade before & is NOT asking them to go back.

Read about Raj's party MNS & its administration in Districts like Nashik/Ahmednagar. Read about the way he organised youth & college going students in MNS dominant areas for solving social issues.

 

[Kazhugu]

Yes , he is right in some cases but you see , he basically let the extremist section of muslims of Bombay off the hook when he targeted all North Indians for the violence and that is very dangerous and you know it considering you know what the extremist section of the muslim community in Bombay is like .

again he very clearly said about the muslims from up and bihar...not about all up ites or biharis....the english media will fully distorted it to paint a misleading picture...what he said was very clear in the marathi media....and i also read a link by a marathi which transalated what Raj said in a marathi channel int english and how the english channels actually interpreted it.....no prizes for guessing they were different in some crucial points.....i will try to get that link so that you can understand how people are being fooled by the english main stream media who have their own agenda.....

 

[vsdoc]

the only point is it un-necessarily splits the marathi manoos vote which has to choose between manase and SS...

The MNS has been around for long enough now.

Both have their well demarcated traditional power bases.

The vote only gets split when the two are at loggerheads with each other and fighting the same seat.

No reason why coalition politics cannot happen between brothers.

the only point is it un-necessarily splits the marathi manoos vote which has to choose between manase and SS...

The MNS has been around for long enough now.

Both have their well demarcated traditional power bases.

The vote only gets split when the two are at loggerheads with each other and fighting the same seat.

No reason why coalition politics cannot happen between brothers.

 

[WAR-rior]

@nick bhai

Yaar, chalo tumhe introspect karate hain. Just temme what wud u do if u were in following situation.

Mumbai can no longer take any more migration. We all know Mumbai is unlike other metros on India to expand 360 degree. Again, the lack of space creates so much issues in development. Ek metro banane ko 10 saal lagte hain, ek 5 km road banane mein 5 saal lag jaate hain. Now frankly speaking its not completely coz of laggard nature of govt offices. Its to much extent the lack of any space for infra development.

Now, we can argue just like any city in the world even mumbai can expand on the available direction ie. towards north and east side towards suburbs. Thats justfied but again to expand govt needs money. Now if there is more population there shud be more taxes and hence more money and more development. Now suppose if any link is missed it creates chaos. Mumbai is getting more migrants but almost everyone is of substandard nature who come and crowd into slums, do labor work and hence are TAX EXEMPTED. Tumhe to pata hi hai as per latest regulations, if u r less than 5L/annum u r tax exempted. Now u say how will a govt run ?

Also, with all these substandard people bring substandard attitude and create a BOULDER not only hurdle for making mumbai an international city. Temme, Dont u want that to happen ?

 

[Kazhugu]

The MNS has been around for long enough now.

Both have their well demarcated traditional power bases.

The vote only gets split when the two are at loggerheads with each other and fighting the same seat.

No reason why coalition politics cannot happen between brothers.
.

true...but i feel that uddhav is not cut out for the rough and tumble of the politics and is more of a back room strategist....the only mistake bala saheb did was not to give the reins of SS to Raj.

@nick bhai

Yaar, chalo tumhe introspect karate hain. Just temme what wud u do if u were in following situation.

Mumbai can no longer take any more migration. We all know Mumbai is unlike other metros on India to expand 360 degree. Again, the lack of space creates so much issues in development. Ek metro banane ko 10 saal lagte hain, ek 5 km road banane mein 5 saal lag jaate hain. Now frankly speaking its not completely coz of laggard nature of govt offices. Its to much extent the lack of any space for infra development.

Now, we can argue just like any city in the world even mumbai can expand on the available direction ie. towards north and east side towards suburbs. Thats justfied but again to expand govt needs money. Now if there is more population there shud be more taxes and hence more money and more development. Now suppose if any link is missed it creates chaos. Mumbai is getting more migrants but almost everyone is of substandard nature who come and crowd into slums, do labor work and hence are TAX EXEMPTED. Tumhe to pata hi hai as per latest regulations, if u r less than 5L/annum u r tax exempted. Now u say how will a govt run ?

Also, with all these substandard people bring substandard attitude and create a BOULDER not only hurdle for making mumbai an international city. Temme, Dont u want that to happen ?

nothing is an excuse for beating up people just because they came up to earn some money and support their family back home...period.

what they should be doing is introducing some legal measures to restrict migration..not the street measures....

 

[Kazhugu]

@nick indian

bhai padho na....Vantage point: Translating a Raj Thackeray Speech

he may speak of maharashtra religion and all....but he is a thackeray and he cut his teeth in SS...so dont get misled by wht the english media tells about him....



the cream of the speech

A few years ago, this same Raza Academy had a rally in Bhiwandi. This bhadva (translates to 'pimp' but pimp doesn't have the same punch )) Abu Asim Azmi went to that rally.

 

[blackops]

He should live or mumbai will become worse there will riots by a particular religious group which was contained by ballasaheb

 

[sachin786]

true...but i feel that uddhav is not cut out for the rough and tumble of the politics and is more of a back room strategist....the only mistake bala saheb did was not to give the reins of SS to Raj.

It was the biggest mistake of this Old man blinded with fatherly love which effected Shiv-Sena & Maharashtra Politics

nothing is an excuse for beating up people just because they came up to earn some money and support their family back home...period.

No good person goes out of home & start beating innocents just because RAJ has commanded so. Have you witnessed how Up/Bihari leader used the same immigrant populations to conduct political rallies in mumbai?? how same population forget the city with gives bread-butter to their families when the communal violence starts?? how very same innocent people get involved in underworld/burgularies in lust of easy-quick money??

what they should be doing is introducing some legal measures to restrict migration..not the street measures....

Thats the need of time for every metro-city, in & out of maharashtra. But you know who rules our Govt. at Delhi.

 

[rubyjackass]

that means you dont know bala saheb....what he did to the madrasis in 60s and 70s, he atoned through the '93 riots..who do you think protected dharavi, matunga, chembur etc during the riots..? no..not the police...

You talk like one crime cancelled out the other. He warred against the South Indians, then he warred against the muslims. Where is the atonement? Just because he had other groups of 'interest' does not mean he came clean now. The least common sense he could have is that SS could not fight on two fronts. It had to be hindus vs muslims in 1992-3.

bala saheb's vision was clear..mumbai was first a part of maharashtra...only them it was the financial capital of the country...and i agree with that....why is that the leftis and pseudos bend over backwards for article 370 for kashmir, but when people like balasaheb ask for preservation of local culture deride him as regionalists ?..is it the color of the robe they wear that causes the difference in approach....

J&K came a long way from 1947's accession. And so far, it has only moved into the Indian union. It is a delicate political matter and we are not in medieval times to play it fast and clean.

I respect Balasaheb for being able to gather such a huge mass following. But honestly his brand of politics is easy. Cry foul saying the majority is losing something and you have your following. But the most difficult part is controlling the mass movement and SS-MNS do it well.

 

[Kazhugu]

No good person goes out of home & start beating innocents just because RAJ has commanded so. Have you witnessed how Up/Bihari leader used the same immigrant populations to conduct political rallies in mumbai?? how same population forget the city with gives bread-butter to their families when the communal violence starts?? how very same innocent people get involved in underworld/burgularies in lust of easy-quick money??

look bro if manase had hung the two rioters who desecrated the amar jawan jyoti by the balls from the sea link i would not have cared....but beating some random auto driver or vegetable seller just because some one else indulged in crime doesnt make sense...and why are you mincing words...which hindu bihari or up ite riots in mumbai...its the other community....so why target these guys ? just because there is no one to speak for them...? sorry..i dont agree with that....as you might have seen....i spport SS or manase for many of their policies...but this beating is one thing that i cannot agree with...no matter how much you rationalize it.....

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

@nick bhai

Yaar, chalo tumhe introspect karate hain. Just temme what wud u do if u were in following situation.

Mumbai can no longer take any more migration. We all know Mumbai is unlike other metros on India to expand 360 degree. Again, the lack of space creates so much issues in development. Ek metro banane ko 10 saal lagte hain, ek 5 km road banane mein 5 saal lag jaate hain. Now frankly speaking its not completely coz of laggard nature of govt offices. Its to much extent the lack of any space for infra development.

Now, we can argue just like any city in the world even mumbai can expand on the available direction ie. towards north and east side towards suburbs. Thats justfied but again to expand govt needs money. Now if there is more population there shud be more taxes and hence more money and more development. Now suppose if any link is missed it creates chaos. Mumbai is getting more migrants but almost everyone is of substandard nature who come and crowd into slums, do labor work and hence are TAX EXEMPTED. Tumhe to pata hi hai as per latest regulations, if u r less than 5L/annum u r tax exempted. Now u say how will a govt run ?

Also, with all these substandard people bring substandard attitude and create a BOULDER not only hurdle for making mumbai an international city. Temme, Dont u want that to happen ?

I understand all these issues , many of them being faced though not to the same extent by Delhi as well but still i feel MNS needs to bring change politically and not by Beating up Non-Marathis. Ofcourse if someone initiates aggression , then he deserves it back but MNS seems to be the aggressor most of the times.

I fear for Mumbai when Bal Thackeray dies, because that would in effect mean that Shiv Sena dies and MNS which is too caught up in its anti-North Indian rhetoric will only allow the extremist muslims to get a free run in Bombay.Things may go back to how they were in the 90s.

But if the people of Bombay are satisfied and have no such fears , then you guys would know better, its your city , who am i to say anything.

 

[Kazhugu]

You talk like one crime cancelled out the other. He warred against the South Indians, then he warred against the muslims. Where is the atonement? Just because he had other groups of 'interest' does not mean he came clean now. The least common sense he could have is that SS could not fight on two fronts. It had to be hindus vs muslims in 1992-3.

there is also one more reason why he went against the madrasis....at the time most of the underworld in mumbai was controlled by south indians....haji mastan, varadaraja mudaliar etc.....this led to a general antipathy towards south indians......but once the south indians started getting educated and started moving up, the feeling went away......if he wanted he could have just left the madrasis to face the muslims in 93..and the outcome would not have been good for them..because by that time the south indian controlled underworld was over and it was the era of islamist underworld....the madrasis simply lacked the muscle power at that time even though the people frm south tamil nadu were known to be pretty brutal.....


it was kind of prayaschita for him....no difference was seen between a gujarati or marati or tamil or malayalee or bihari hindu if he was in need of help or in danger of getting attacked, the shiv sena helped them....politicians evolve...and he evolved and i dont hold any grudges against him....

J&K came a long way from 1947's accession. And so far, it has only moved into the Indian union. It is a delicate political matter and we are not in medieval times to play it fast and clean.

I respect Balasaheb for being able to gather such a huge mass following. But honestly his brand of politics is easy. Cry foul saying the majority is losing something and you have your following. But the most difficult part is controlling the mass movement and SS-MNS do it well.

SS and manase are kind of mutually assured destruction that keeps the other community from doing mischief...political correctness aside that is the truth and most mumbaikars would agree with me.....actually even the marati muslims and gujrati bohras and khojas usually are neutral towards bala saheb or support him....its the urdu muslims from bihar, up and now BD who are the issue.....

actually its not easy to be followed as a demi-god by lakhs of followers who would willingly give their life for him....not all can do that...

 

[sachin786]

look bro if manase had hung the two rioters who desecrated the amar jawan jyoti by the balls from the sea link i would not have cared....

The same rioters ( who probably were Bangladeshis) potraited themselves as immigrants from north-india while entering mumbai.
Mumbai is highly unsafe due to lack control measures of flooding immigrants in it.

but beating some random auto driver or vegetable seller just because some one else indulged in crime doesnt make sense...and why are you mincing words...which hindu bihari or up ite riots in mumbai...its the other community....so why target these guys ?

just because there is no one to speak for them...? sorry..i dont agree with that....as you might have seen....i spport SS or manase for many of their policies...but this beating is one thing that i cannot agree with...no matter how much you rationalize it.....

I am not supporting method of beating up people either.
Its really barbaric way to deal with problem.
But this happens only when the voice of public is suppressed by bad governance or for vote bank politics & mob starts solving their problem on their own.

 

[Kazhugu]

The same rioters ( who probably were Bangladeshis) potraited themselves as immigrants from north-india while entering mumbai.
Mumbai is highly unsafe due to lack control measures of flooding immigrants in it.

I am strongly for regulating the migrant flow into mumbai....mumbai is a physical entity that can only take a limited number of people....and it cannot be burdened for the misgovernance of some states.....

But this happens only when the voice of public is suppressed by bad governance or for vote bank politics & mob starts solving their problem on their own.

so why not they take their case to the court...file a PIL....prove with studies how the infra of mumbai is not capable of handling the migrants coming in about 40 trains daily.....why go about beating them ?