Bal Thackeray and the rise of Shiv Sena in Maharashtra

[Jackdaws]

wow what a warrior...internet warrior that is.....40,000 people were braving the cold weather and standing outside his house praying for his health at 4 in the morning....when you are like this i bet no one would even notice your absence....and secular, idiot free india ? man you have your head up somewhere else......this was the man who stood between thousands of hindus and their certain death in '93. The mobs from a particular community were rioting and the police under the sudhakarrao govt were doing absolutely nothing for the fear of the mumbai underworld.....tit was the shiv sena that came out on the streets...not anyone else....this was man whose party when in power stamped out the islamist underworld from mumbai and this was man whose govt which gave reservation to the kashmiri pandits in education and jobs when they were living as refugees in their own country.....

i guess you must one of those yuppie burger eating, cola sipping generation who take everything the main stream media regurgitates as the word of god...but Bal Thackeray would always be BALASAHEB to people like me and lakhs others who lived through those horror days.....

braving the cold? LOL - 25C is not braving the cold. It is not as if it were snowing in Bombay. Came out on the streets to protect? LOL - they did come out to loot and pillage. If they were so brave, why didn't they confront the 26/11 attackers?

The only thing I hate about Shiv Sena as a whole is their unnecessary hatred towards Non-Maharashtrian Indians. Apart from that I see Bal Thackeray as a very strong personality and self made man..

Actually, he was hardly self-made. In the 1960s and 70s - it was the Congress which gave him an impetus and importance to nip the rising popularity of a Dutta Samant a trade union leader who single handedly shut down ALL the textile mills in Bombay.

 

[sachin786]

braving the cold? LOL - 25C is not braving the cold. It is not as if it were snowing in Bombay. Came out on the streets to protect? LOL - they did come out to loot and pillage. If they were so brave, why didn't they confront the 26/11 attackers?

That was stupid comparison. 26/11 was a coward acts by a-holes who came like thugs to city.
26/11 was sudden attack where even national intelligence & security system failed. Later hostages including many foreigners made the attack more complicated to solve. Do you think MNS/SS should have come on streets & attacked TAJ when our police/security systems were trying their best??

 

[Jackdaws]

Ya thats the point these people outside Mumbai dont even know the problems here... i am South India myself ... worked with Sena for few years... they r very good people ... Patriots ...

I know Many South Indians who completely Backs sena... even the Malayali Associations of Thane completely Supports Sena ... I even know many Tamil associations who support Sena & Balasheb ...

I have personally met Raj sheb once although for few minutes... very down to earth man ... he talks directly on point unlike other politicians who play Diplomacy ... he even appreciated me for talking in Marathi even after being a South Indian... very charismatic person...

Interesting. Perhaps you don't know the history of Bal Thackeray. Just as he targeted North Indians in the recent years before Raj took over than mantle - in the 70s and the 80s - they targeted South Indians for taking Marathi jobs. The slogan they coined was "lungi utha, pungi baja". Tomorrow it will be someone else.

 

[Kazhugu]

braving the cold? LOL - 25C is not braving the cold. It is not as if it were snowing in Bombay. Came out on the streets to protect? LOL - they did come out to loot and pillage. If they were so brave, why didn't they confront the 26/11 attackers?

it doesnt need to snow to be cold...anyway not to get distracted into silly semantics....and why would they confront the 26/11 attackers...another of the incorrigible fiberal sound byte.....if it was their duty to confront the 26/11 attackers why do we need the army, crpf, nsg, etc for ? why not disband all of them and ask these guys to take over the security...

and no, not even the army came to the rescue of the hindus in 93...it was shiv sena that came....not the fiberals who can spin good sound bytes castgating him....they would be the people who would drop their ipads and smartphones and shut their doors at the first sign of riots and not open it even if their neighbour was asking for help....

 

[Jackdaws]

That was stupid comparison. 26/11 was a coward acts by a-holes who came like thugs to city.
26/11 was sudden attack where even national intelligence & security system failed. Later hostages including many foreigners made the attack more complicated to solve. Do you think MNS/SS should have come on streets & attacked TAJ when our police/security systems were trying their best??

Actually, the idea was not to attack the Taj but to defend it. The only thing stupid here is your denial. Even in the riots the state apparatus failed. So? Are you saying that the riots of 92-93 were easy to solve? At least when making blanket statements - look for consistency. And why couldn't they have tried protecting Cama hospital or Victoria Terminus? Oops I mean Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus...

 

[Kazhugu]

Interesting. Perhaps you don't know the history of Bal Thackeray. Just as he targeted North Indians in the recent years before Raj took over than mantle - in the 70s and the 80s - they targeted South Indians for taking Marathi jobs. The slogan they coined was "lungi utha, pungi baja". Tomorrow it will be someone else.

read the thread jackdaws....the maharashtrians had a general antipathy towards the gujjus for controlling the business and towards the south indians for dominating psu s and also for controlling the underworld at that time....he just utilized it....but once the south indians left their underworld ways , started working their way up, getting educated and getting integrated into the local culture the antipathy died down and he probably did the biggest help in 93 when no madrasi (yes thats what they were called) or gujarati or bihari was discriminated against and the only objctive was defending them.....the south indians the old timers, who saw both faces of bala saheb had made their peace with him and dadar, matunga are all sena strongholds....

Actually, the idea was not to attack the Taj but to defend it. The only thing stupid here is your denial. Even in the riots the state apparatus failed. So? Are you saying that the riots of 92-93 were easy to solve? At least when making blanket statements - look for consistency. And why couldn't they have tried protecting Cama hospital or Victoria Terminus? Oops I mean Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus...

hitting back at a mob that was probably armed with the same weapons and going against terrorists with assault rifles and grenades and commando training, especially when the police were already in action is not the same thing.....

in 93, the police did NOT do a thing and were mute spectators until the sena stepped in...they were as much afraid of the underworld as anyone else.....that entry of the sainiks actually re-energized the police dept and they started doing their duty again.....

but yeah then there is the thing that the sena of 2008 was not the sena of 93.....they had become a bit soft...

 

[Jackdaws]

it doesnt need to snow to be cold...anyway not to get distracted into silly semantics....and why would they confront the 26/11 attackers...another of the incorrigible fiberal sound byte.....if it was their duty to confront the 26/11 attackers why do we need the army, crpf, nsg, etc for ? why not disband all of them and ask these guys to take over the security...

and no, not even the army came to the rescue of the hindus in 93...it was shiv sena that came....not the fiberals who can spin good sound bytes castgating him....they would be the people who would drop their ipads and smartphones and shut their doors at the first sign of riots and not open it even if their neighbour was asking for help....

LOL - nice contradiction. So we need Army, CRPF, NSG etc. to confront attackers on 26/11 but we don't need them to protect us in case of religious riots? LOL. The easiest route to jingoism masquerading as patriotism is to chest-thump your credentials as a right wing crusader against all ills. If someone questions it - they are left-leaning liberals with zero patriotism.

 

[sachin786]

Actually, the idea was not to attack the Taj but to defend it. The only thing stupid here is your denial. Even in the riots the state apparatus failed. So? Are you saying that the riots of 92-93 were easy to solve? At least when making blanket statements - look for consistency. And why couldn't they have tried protecting Cama hospital or Victoria Terminus? Oops I mean Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus...

Kya yaar main bhi kise samjhaa rahaa hoon. Bhais ke aage been bajaane se kuch nahi hota.

Hope you first understand the difference 26/11 attack which was done by fidayeen type military trained gunmen whose aim was to kill & die & 92-93 bombings by some islamic elements on order of brainwahsed indian muslim DON.

Tomorrow if terrorist attack Parliment again like they did before dont forget to brand all Delhites/North indians as cowards.

 

[Jackdaws]

read the thread jackdaws....the maharashtrians had a general antipathy towards the gujjus for controlling the business and towards the south indians for dominating psu s and also for controlling the underworld at that time....he just utilized it....but once the south indians left their underworld ways , started working their way up, getting educated the antipathy died down and getting integrated into the local culture and he probably did the biggest help in 93 when no madrasi (yes thats what they were called) or gujarati iir bihari was discriminated against and the only objctive was defending them.....the south indians the old timers, who saw both faces of bala saheb had made their peace and dadar, matunga are all sena strongholds....



hitting back at a mob that was probably armed with the same weapons and going against terrorists with assault rifles and grenades and commando training, especially when the police were already in action is not the same thing.....

in 93, the police did NOT do a thing and were mute spectators until the sena stepped in...they were as much afraid of the underworld as anyone else.....that entry of the sainiks actually re-energized the police dept and they started doing their duty again.....

and yeah then there is the thing that the sena of 2008 was not the sena of 93.....they had become a bit soft....

I do not doubt his popularity. I just see him as a opportune politician who knows what to say to his electorate at what time.

Kya yaar main bhi kise samjhaa rahaa hoon. Bhais ke aage been bajaane se kuch nahi hota.

Hope you first understand the difference 26/11 attack which was done by fidayeen type military trained gunmen whose aim was to kill & die & 92-93 bombings by some islamic elements on order of brainwahsed indian muslim DON.

Tomorrow if terrorist attack Parliment again like they did before dont forget to brand all Delhites/North indians as cowards.

As the saying in Marathi goes "gadhva pudhe vachli geeta - instead of answering, you are merely going around in circles.

 

[Kazhugu]

LOL - nice contradiction. So we need Army, CRPF, NSG etc. to confront attackers on 26/11 but we don't need them to protect us in case of religious riots? LOL. The easiest route to jingoism masquerading as patriotism is to chest-thump your credentials as a right wing crusader against all ills. If someone questions it - they are left-leaning liberals with zero patriotism.

looks like you dont understand what is being said....ofcourse we need the police, the pac, the raf, the crpf etc for riots...people need to arrested, FIRs needed to be filed and the entire legal system activated.....but in 93, NOTHING of that sort happened....do you understand ? the police were mute spectators to the atrocities that was being unleashed....the calls for help were not being answered.....it was only after some time the first trouble started during which the police did absolutely NOTHING did shiv sena step in.

Again i repeat, the Shiv Sena stepped in only after the police utterly and terribly failed in their job....

but in case of 26/11 the police immediately went into the job of fighting and it was best left to them to do the job.....

instead of lol ing try to understand the difference in both the situation...the previous one was a religious riot...the second was a commando style assault on the city by well trained foreign jehadis.

I do not doubt his popularity. I just see him as a opportune politician who knows what to say to his electorate at what time.

that is the hallmark of a great politician....you need to utilize the opportunities given to you....if life throws you a lemon, make a lemonade....

 

[sachin786]

As the saying in Marathi goes "gadhva pudhe vachli geeta - instead of answering, you are merely going around in circles.

Yes same goes like Paaalthya Ghadyaawar Paani.

Neend se usse jagaaya jaata jo soya huwa ho, but jo neend ka drama kar raha usse jagaa nahi sakte.

I am sure you know well what happened on 26/11 but you are using that incident to bash Shiv-Sena & its follower just mere due to hate against them.

I am mumbaikar, I know things better than any Tom-Dick-Harry ranting here.

Bravery is what Shiv-Sena showed in 93 bombing, Bravery is what MNS did when thousands of employees were laid off without notice by JET Airways management, Bravery is what Bal-thackerey did for kashmiris, Bravery is what Shiv-Sainik did to muslim-dominated underworld & hafta-wasooli in chembur-naalasupara-byculla-andheri-kalyan-dombivili and many areas in mumbai.

 

[Kazhugu]

^^ you forgot the Raj T rally post the azad maidan violence where there was marked silence across the political spectrum and he was the only person to raise his voice against it....

both the senas were itching to have a go at it....it was only at the express order of balasaheb that they restrained themselves....


the thackerays are essential for the peace of mumbai....an essential counterbalance....the people who wish off these people dont understand what it is like actually in mumbai, if it were not for them.....

 

[vsdoc]

Bhaiyyon!

Yahan nahin ladte.

Buri baat ......

 

[WAR-rior]

I understand all these issues , many of them being faced though not to the same extent by Delhi as well but still i feel MNS needs to bring change politically and not by Beating up Non-Marathis. Ofcourse if someone initiates aggression , then he deserves it back but MNS seems to be the aggressor most of the times.

I fear for Mumbai when Bal Thackeray dies, because that would in effect mean that Shiv Sena dies and MNS which is too caught up in its anti-North Indian rhetoric will only allow the extremist muslims to get a free run in Bombay.Things may go back to how they were in the 90s.

But if the people of Bombay are satisfied and have no such fears , then you guys would know better, its your city , who am i to say anything.

Hmm, your sentiments are more of skeptical assumption that mite happen. To be frank I am a migrant and a respected one by shiv sena n MNS themselves. Bottomline is, Migration is entertained if and only if it will support for the cause of the city in a positive manner. In simple words. Come to mumbai and work for the betterment by sustaining to the culture, laws and most important pay taxes for the better.

Todays, people come, earn and send back money to Up/Bihar by themselves living on pennies and sustaining to Slum life.

My whole intension is eradication of Slums, Internal consumption and spending for the betterment of the city. Today's migrants are completely opposite.

 

[Kazhugu]

Bhaiyyon!

Yahan nahin ladte.

Buri baat ......

most of us are being restrained here bhai....just see twitter to see the deluge of support for balasaheb....