What's new

Baithak: Cultures & Colors of Pakistan.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chill guys, why be mad.

As that guy above mentioned, selective ignorance cant be cured, but I can try to help you :)

See atleast you accept that Punjabiya got affected by the religions, now tell me isn't Islam based on Arab tribal laws, how can Punjab retain its unique identity if it is subsumed by a foreign way of life.

Whereas Sikhism was by the Punjabis and of the Punjabis, henvce the original culture still thriving.

Yeah people listen to bulley shah etc but not to the extent they listen to real punjabi music. Fortunately Indian Punjab got separated from pakistan one and managed to retain its identity, if Urdu was imposed in Indian punjab it would have affected its native tongue too.

Sure sure, I know an Indian punjabi who was in my school who was too embarrassed of speaking punjabi when a pak punjabi teacher asked him too. I'm sure you know many like that too

^^Oh you are the guy who just said maa-paan and you are punjabi lol....and you ask me why you are called bhapas...rofl

At least Daler Mehndi sings in Punjabi whatever the quality of the music, how can sufi songs with urdu words be considered Punjabi when Urdu isn't native to punjab?

Go listen to Bindrakhia or Gurdaas maan bhape, stop listening to daler Mehndi and you wil inderstand real Punjabi and why your guys tone sounds so funny.

Stop it with your cheap hatred of Urdu, Urdu has its own history, always uniting cultures and building bridges
Most Urdu literates can't understand punjabi
 
.
This thread deserves a sticky and help from @Armstrong's mod contacts to keep MQM trolls OUT! They are a disgrace to every family that moved from that region. There is nothing such as muhajir... we were supposed to integrate in the various communities. Death to ethnic tension, racism and bigotry. @American Pakistani if you want to do something stop this troll @darkinsky... he is just insulting other ethnic groups. His butt will hurt when someone tells him to look within.

Glad to see luffy sharing useful information rather than banging the drums of Afghanistan. Very impressed wror.

Ahmed Shah Abdali lion of Pashtunkhwa (Pakistan)-this is Pashtun history-of all races in Pakistan Pashtuns have the greatest history... take that with a pinch of salt as this Pashtun wasn't always a Pashtun particularly 9/10 of his life. ;) It is simply a fact-but in either case that isn't what we should teach our kids-we should teach them that all our history is great so we don't produce bigots like @darkinsky deleting posts to survive:

Ahmad Shah Durrani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't post the whole thing but have posted the wikipedia link-no offense to @Babbarkhalsa or something bro... i do not support his attacks on sikhs and golden temple... just his conquests are a source of pride for pakistani pashtuns. He was born in Multan (Pakistan)... share something on ranjit singh (Its Pakistani Sikh history). You support Babbar khalsa?

I am stuck with a horrible computer but i will reply to @Karachiite on this thread and @Secur on the other. I haven't forgotten. Just a short one and after that we can stop the tradition of replying to each others posts, we agree anyway so no real debate taking place-just reinforcing each others views. @darkinsky has no knowledge of Pashtuns. He is a bigot... by the next 100 years only bigots will be the ones calling themselves muhajirs and voting for MQM. Rest will integrate in their efforts to merge as Pakistanis only. @Karachiite after that post defending Altaf's speech i cannot respect u as a member and this was the primary reason i quit muhajir race.

Will post something about my ansari ancestors too. I thinks its an over-focus on pashtun heroes... no issue with that-its OUR history but so are the talpurs and mir chakar. Will post some of that too. :)

This is a great way to win respect luffy. I hope when you go to pashtunforums again we will see a new attitude in you.

good day monsieur Havizsultan

At first I didn't understandwhat you were refferring to but then I did my reading from various sources online and its saddening to say the least from your response, you should atleast show some respect to "muhajir" members of this forum. There families went through alot of trauma to arrive to this nation of pakistan and instead of the republic integrating them, they were forced to face massive discrimination and a government genocide ranging from 1992-1996. While i am not native to pakistan, but I do have culturally similar background to these folks so i can symphatize by them, because I mean leaving all your property to reach the promised nation only to find stauch discrimination is rather saddening to say the least. So my point is you should understand their positions before casting a judgement and @Karachiite, sorry brother for not understanding your position earlier and considering you a racist bigot(did alot of readings last night hehe).
also happy new years mon ami
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
One last question, I know this is new years and I dont want to take your time but can you explain what the other posters are talking about. Why is karachiite(not calling you out) talking about "Muhajir" as being creators of Pakistan, I thought muslim league created pakistan and also is there ethnic tension in the coastal city of karachi because its being mentioned couple of times. While i am not in contacted with my extended family, I am curious because my grandpapa says that the family resides in a area called "kant", is that a safe area in your opinion, even though they are extended i feel worried about their safety by the way some posters are talking about. Once again thanks for answering and sorry for bringing up such a painful topic, over 1 million dead people in partition may god bless their souls in heaven.

When Pakistan was created it was formed out of two regions :

(a) the Muslim majority Provinces (Balochistan, Khyber Pukhtookhwa, Sindh)

(b) the Princely States of British Indian who choose to accede to Pakistan instead of the Union of India (Balochistan & parts of Kashmir which we control but wasn't acceded to us but the Muslims therein rebelled to be a part of Pakistan)

In these areas the Muslim majority was significant to being almost absolute & so most of the Muslims in these lands did not feel threatened enough to clamor for a separate homeland of their own because they already had more than enough numbers to form their own governments in these Provinces & Princely States & could have looked the Federation's Centre in the eye. Naturally they weren't discriminated against & they didn't feel a sense of threat to their religion, their way of life or their future. In fact in the past, the Muslims of these Provinces & these Princely States, were so loyal to the British that they actually fought against their own fellow Muslims & Non Muslims alike to quell rebellions. And even afterwards their interest in Pakistan wasn't that significant.

The demand for Pakistan was picked up by the Muslims in the Provinces & Princely States of India where they were a minority (UP, MP, Bihar, Bengal, Hyderabad etc.). In these Provinces the Muslims felt the most threatened & felt all the things I mentioned in my earlier posts & so they were, from the beginning, die-hard supporters of Barrister Muhammad Ali Jinnah & the Muslim League he had built up. They supported him through 'thick' & 'thin'. So when the cry for Pakistan was raised, these Muslims from the Muslim Minority Provinces, were the ones who were its most vociferous supporters. Who gave so much of what they owned for the Party Conventions, who took rallies out in favor of the League, who protested in favor of the League & who finally migrated for the country that they had given up so much for & were hence called the 'Muhajirs or Immigrants in Urdu'.

As this was happening the Muslim League was gaining strength in the Muslim Majority Provinces & Princely States as well where the discrimination & the impending future as being subservient to the whims & wishes of the an overwhelmingly Hindu majority was being felt. Also the poet-philosopher Dr. Muhammad Iqbal was talking to the people, through his verses & rhymes, about their glorious past, their religion, their past scholarship, their traditions, their customs, their way of life, their outlook on life & the concept of a Nation State for the Muslims to live their lives as they see fit protecting & nurturing their unique identity. This attempt at reviving a sense of 'collective consciousness' amongst the Muslims that they are a Nation by every definition of Nationhood & must strive to preserve, nurture & lead into the coming era, their way of life, started having an effect in the Muslim Majority Provinces too where People started thinking of themselves as a Nation in search of a land of their own where they could practice their faith & their outlook on life without prejudice, where they can make their own laws, regulations & protect their own culture & teach their own history to their posterity. At this time the sense of deprivation & a sense of impeding doom where they'd be marginalized in a Union of India by sheer numbers & they'd loose themselves prompted them to become vociferous supporters of the Muslim League & Barrister Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

And from here with the Muslims of the Muslim minority areas & the Muslims of the Muslim majority areas both joined hands & struggled for their collective future which, after years of struggle, finally culminated in the State of Pakistan !

But before the creation of the Pakistan the Muhajirs or the Immigrants took whatever they had & left for Pakistan but were cut down in droves along the way. Whole trains would arrive from Delhi to Lahore where the Muhajirs, down to every last man, woman or child, had been brutally butchered mercilessly for exercising their right to protect their own future as they see it fit. Amongst these Muhajirs were many Muhajirs that had come, not from the Muslim minority Provinces, but from the areas of two Muslim Majority Provinces (Bengal & Punjab) & the Princely State of Kashmir that were divided between India & Pakistan for the former & were captured by Pakistan for the latter. Countless people died along the way. And those deaths are the reason why the Muslim majority provinces although not being very huge supporters of Pakistan perhaps 10-15 years before the birth of the Nation now ended up becoming the biggest ones by far due to seeing to many of their loved ones being cut down like that.

Most of the Muhajirs from the Muslim Minority Provinces settled in the Pakistani province of Sindh with the remainder being in the rest of Pakistan but most probably predominantly in Punjab. Most of the Muhajirs from the Muslim Majority Provinces settled in whatever remained of their partitioned Provinces & settled in Pakistani Bengal & Pakistani Punjab.

In time the Muhajir tag from the immigrants who had settled in Punjab, Bengal & other parts of Pakistan simply faded away but it stuck with those immigrants who had settled in Sindh (Karachi being its Capital) & remains stuck till this date.

So essentially one poster is arguing that the Muhajirs should have assimilated into the Provinces they found themselves in whereas the other is arguing that no they shouldn't have because they were the ones whom Pakistan belongs the most to because they were the most active participants in it.

On my part I think they're both wrong ! Muhajirs should indeed maintain their own separate cultural & ethnic identity with the locals giving them their due space to express themselves but at the same time they mustn't come across as holier-than-thou purer Pakistanis than the locals because the locals sacrificed for this country too !

But because there are elements in every society who like to pit one against the other, there are elements in Pakistan who routinely incite ethnic tensions to pump up their prospective vote bank to get back into the Government to rip off the country some more & fill up their own coffers. In time these elements became armed & now you've got a Karachi where, according to the Supreme Court of Pakistan, every political party has an armed militant wing. They murder people, extort money from them, kidnap them for ransom & muddle up the voting process. So whereas there is no 'ethnic tension' between different ethnicities in Karachi there are political parties which claim to represent different 'ethnicities' whose militant wings are making life hell for the average Karachite by engaging in all of the criminal acts that I mentioned above.

Some of my relatives in Karachi have, because of the above, chosen to move out of the city for other cities of Pakistan because their businesses were destroyed & their very lives threatened ! But thankfully Karachi is a huge city with a population bigger than that of most countries (30 million unless I'm mistaken) & this happens only in small pockets of areas where these gangs rule.

Regrettably because everyone from the political parties in Governments to the security forces in Karachi are involved in this no concrete action is taken to better the condition of our most important city. Otherwise a police operation in the city backed up by the intelligence would sort this out in a matter of weeks or a few months. Thats why we're hoping that the next government that comes to power isn't as corrupt, nepotistic & criminal as the current one so we're mostly banking on Imran Khan's PTI !

P.S I think your Grandpa meant 'Cantt' which is short for Cantonment & is present in every city of Pakistan. I dunno how it is in Karachi but the cantonment in my city (Lahore) is full of Military Police check posts & their patrol cars & criminal element over there is almost non-existent. I'm sure the Army in Karachi would have maintained their Karachi Cantonment in a similar fashion & these militant wings of these Political Parties wouldn't be allowed to run amok like that there & so your extended family should be safe.
 
.
Sure sure, I know an Indian punjabi who was in my school who was too embarrassed of speaking punjabi when a pak punjabi teacher asked him too. I'm sure you know many like that too

Stop it with your cheap hatred of Urdu, Urdu has its own history, always uniting cultures and building bridges
Most Urdu literates can't understand punjabi

Your knowing some random Punjabi doesnt change the fact that Pakistanis punjabi is funny .

I don't hate urdu, why would I when I dont care about it.

I just explained to him Urdu isnt native to punjab, punjabi is.

Again how does it matter if urdu literates understand punjabi or no, they arent punjabis and their knowledge of punjabi is ireelevant.
 
.
Your knowing some random Punjabi doesnt change the fact that Pakistanis punjabi is funny .

I don't hate urdu, why would I when I dont care about it.

I just explained to him Urdu isnt native to punjab, punjabi is.

Again how does it matter if urdu literates understand punjabi or no, they arent punjabis and their knowledge of punjabi is ireelevant.

Another race supremacist jumps in...i thought one was enough.

By your logic non punjabi's knowledge of punjabi meand nothing?
So non punjabi shouldnt bother trying to understand Punjabi as its not their language..
But then you say its a taboo for Punjabis to speak any other language,they should only speak pure guru nanak punjabi.
So how do you suggest people should communicate?
Sign language?
 
.
Another race supremacist jumps in...i thought one was enough.

By your logic non punjabi's knowledge of punjabi meand nothing?
So non punjabi shouldnt bother trying to understand Punjabi as its not their language..
But then you say its a taboo for Punjabis to speak any other language,they should only speak pure guru nanak punjabi.
So how do you suggest people should communicate?
Sign language?

He has to write something negative just to feel good about himself... his cousins doing the same in other threads.
 
.
Ahmed Shah Abdali's profile from the page of Wikipedia. One of the greatest conquerors in Pashtun history:

Ahmad Shah Durrani (c. 1722–1773) (Pashto/Persian: احمد شاه درانی‎), also known as Ahmad Shāh Abdālī (Pashto/Persian: احمد شاه ابدالي) and born as Ahmad Khān, was the founder of the Durrani Empire (Afghan Empire) in 1747 and is regarded by many to be the founder of the modern state of Afghanistan.[1][2][3][4]

Ahmad Khan enlisted as a young soldier in the military of the Afsharid kingdom and quickly rose to become a commander of four thousand Abdali Pashtun soldiers.[5] After the death of Nader Shah Afshar of Persia in June 1747, Abdali became the Emir of Khorasan. Rallying his Pashtun tribes and allies, he pushed east towards the Mughal and the Maratha Empire of India as well as west towards the disintegrating Afsharid Empire of Persia and north toward the Khanate of Bukhara. Within a few years he had conquered all of today's Afghanistan and Pakistan, including much of northeastern Iran and the Punjab region in the Indian subcontinent.[3][6] He decisively defeated the Marathas at the 1761 Battle of Panipat which was fought north of Delhi in India.

After his natural death in 1772–73, his son Timur Shah took control of the empire. Ahmad Shah's mausoleum is located at Kandahar, Afghanistan, adjacent to the famous Mosque of the Cloak of the Prophet Mohammed in the center of the city. The Afghans often refer to him as Ahmad Shah Bābā (Ahmad Shah the "Father").[2][7][8][9]

Durrani was born as Ahmad Khan between 1722 and 1723 in either Multan, Mughal India, or the city of Herat in modern-day Afghanistan.[1][4][10][11][12] Some claim that he was born in Multan (now in Pakistan) and taken as an infant with his mother (Zarghuna Alakozai) to the city of Herat where his father had served as the governor.[10] On the contrary, several historians assert that he was born in Herat.[4][11][12][13] One of the historians relied on primary sources such as Mahmud-ul-Musanna's Tarikh-i-Ahmad Shahi of 1753 and Imam-uddin al-Hussaini's Tarikh-i-Hussain Shahi of 1798.

Durrani's father, Mohammed Zaman Khan, was chief of the Abdalis Pashtuns. He was killed in a battle with the Hotakis between 1722 and 1723, around the time of Ahmad Khan's birth. His family were from the Sadozai section of the Popalzai clan of the Abdalis. In 1729, after the invasion of Nader Shah, the young Ahmad Khan fled with his family south to Kandahar and took refuge with the Ghilzais.[14] He and his brother, Zulfikar, were later imprisoned inside a fortress by Hussain Hotaki, the Ghilzai ruler of southern Afghanistan. Shah Hussain commanded a powerful tribe of Pashtun fighters, having conquered the eastern part of Persia in 1722 with his brother Mahmud, and trodden the throne of the Persian Safavids.

In around 1731, Nader Shah Afshar, the rising new ruler of Persia, began enlisting the Abdali Pashtuns from Herat in his army. After conquering Kandahar in 1738, Ahmad Khan and his brother were freed by Nader Shah and provided with leading careers in his administration. The Ghilzais were pushed eastward while the Abdalis began to re-settle in and around the city of Kandahar.[15]
Commander in the Afsharid military
Further information: Afsharid dynasty
Delegation of Afsharids negotiating with a Mughal Nawab.

Nader Shah favoured Abdali not only because he came from a well respected noble Afghan family but also due to his handsome features as well as both being Khorasanians. Ahmad Khan proved himself in Nader Shah's service and was promoted from a personal attendant (yasāwal) to command a cavalry of Abdali tribesmen. He quickly rose to command a cavalry contingent estimated at four thousand strong,[16] composed chiefly of Abdalis, in the service of the Shah on his invasion of India.

Popular history has it that the brilliant but megalomaniac Nader Shah could see the talent in his young commander. Later on, according to Pashtun legend, it is said that in Delhi Nader Shah summoned Ahmad Shah, and said, "Come forward Ahmad Abdali. Remember Ahmad Khan Abdali, that after me the Kingship will pass on to you.[17] "Nader Shah used to say in admiration that he had not met in Iran, Turan, and Hindustan any man of such laudable talents as Ahmad Abdali possessed."[18]

Nader Shah's rule abruptly ended in June 1747 when he was assassinated by his own guards. The guards involved in the assassination did so secretly so as to prevent the Abdalis from coming to their King's rescue. However, Ahmad Khan was told that Nader Shah had been killed by one of his wives. Despite the danger of being attacked, the Abdali contingent led by Ahmad Khan rushed either to save Nader Shah or to confirm what happened. Upon reaching the King's tent, they were only to see Nader Shah's body and severed head. Having served him so loyally, the Abdalis wept at having failed their leader,[19] and headed back to Kandahar. On their way back to Kandahar, the Abdalis had decided that Ahmad Khan would be their new leader, and already began calling him as Ahmad Shah.[15]

After the capture of Qandahar, Nadir Shah sent him to Mazandaran where the young Pashtun became governor. At the time of Nadir's death, he commanded a contingent of Abdali Pashtuns. Realizing that his life was in jeopardy if he stayed among the Persians who had murdered Nadir Shah, he decided to leave the Persian camp, and with his 4,000 troops he proceeded to Qandahar. Along the way and by sheer luck, they managed to capture a caravan with booty from India. He and his troops were rich; moreover, they were experienced fighters. In short, they formed a formidable force of young Pashtun soldiers who were loyal to their high-ranking leader.[11]

Rise to power
Further information: Durrani dynasty
Coronation of Ahmad Shah Durrani in 1747 by a 20th century Afghan artist, Breshna.

In October 1747, the chiefs of the Abdali tribes met near Kandahar for a Loya Jirga to choose a leader. For nine days serious discussions were held among the candidates in the Argah. Ahmad Shah kept silent by not campaigning for himself. At last Sabir Shah, a religious figure from the area, came out of his sanctuary and stood before those in the Jirga and said, "He found no one worthy for leadership except Ahmah Shah. He is the most trustworthy and talented for the job. He had Sabir's blessing for the nomination because only his shoulders could carry this responsibility". The leaders and everyone agreed unanimously. Ahmad Shah was chosen to lead the Afghan tribes. Coins where struck after his coronation as King occurred near the tomb of Shaikh Surkh, adjacent to Nader Abad Fort.

Despite being younger than other claimants, Ahmad Shah had several overriding factors in his favour:

He was a direct descendant of Sado, patriarch of the Sadozai clan, the most prominent tribe amongst the Pashtuns at the time;
He was unquestionably a charismatic leader and seasoned warrior who had at his disposal a trained, mobile force of several thousand cavalrymen;
Haji Ajmal Khan, the chief of the Mohammedzais (also known as Barakzais) which were rivals of the Sadodzais, already withdrew out of the election[15]

One of Ahmad Shah's first acts as chief was to adopt the title Padshah durr-i dawran ('King, "pearl of the age").[2]
Forming the last Afghan empire
Further information: Durrani Empire
Afghan royal soldiers of the Durrani Empire (also referred to as the Afghan Empire).

Following his predecessor, Ahmad Shah Durrani set up a special force closest to him consisting mostly of his fellow Durranis and other Pashtuns, as well as Tajiks, Qizilbash and others.[15] Durrani began his military conquest by capturing Ghazni from the Ghilzais and then wresting Kabul from the local ruler, and thus strengthened his hold over eastern Khorasan which is most of present-day Afghanistan. Leadership of the various Afghan tribes rested mainly on the ability to provide booty for the clan, and Durrani proved remarkably successful in providing both booty and occupation for his followers. Apart from invading the Punjab region three times between the years 1747–1753, he captured Herat in 1750 and both Nishapur (Neyshābūr) and Mashhad in 1751.

Durrani first crossed the Indus River in 1748, the year after his ascension – his forces sacked and absorbed Lahore during that expedition. The following year (1749), the Mughal ruler was induced to cede Sindh and all of the Punjab including the vital trans Indus River to him, in order to save his capital from being attacked by the Afghan forces of the Durrani Empire. Having thus gained substantial territories to the east without a fight, Ahmad Shah and his Afghan forces turned westward to take possession of Herat, which was ruled by Nader Shah's grandson, Shah Rukh of Persia. The city fell to Ahmad Shah in 1750, after almost a year of siege and bloody conflict; Ahmad Shah and his forces then pushed on into present-day Iran, capturing Nishapur and Mashhad in 1751. He then pardoned Shah Rukh and reconstituted Khorasan, but a tributary of the Durrani Empire. This marked the westernmost border of the Durrani Empire as set by the Pul-i-Abrisham, on the Mashhad-Tehran road.[20]

Meanwhile, in the preceding three years, the Sikhs had occupied the city of Lahore, and Ahmad Shah had to return in 1751 to oust them. In 1752, Ahmad Shah with his forces invaded and reduced Kashmir. He next sent an army to subdue the areas north of the Hindu Kush. In short order, the powerful army brought under its control the Turkmen, Uzbek, Tajik and Hazara peoples of northern, central, and western Afghanistan. In 1752, Kashmiri nobles invited Ahmad Shah Durrani to invade the province and oust the ineffectual Mughal rulers.

Then in 1756–57, in what was his fourth invasion of India, Ahmad Shah sacked Delhi and plundered Agra, Mathura, and Vrndavana. However, he did not displace the Mughal dynasty, which remained in nominal control as long as the ruler acknowledged Ahmad's suzerainty over the Punjab, Sindh, and Kashmir. He installed a puppet emperor, Alamgir II, on the Mughal throne, and arranged marriages for himself and his son Timur into the imperial family that same year. He married the daughter of the Mughal emperor Muhammad Shah. His de facto suzerainity was accepted by the East India Company.[21] Leaving his second son Timur Shah (who was wed to the daughter of (Alamgir II) to safeguard his interests, Durrani finally left India to return to Afghanistan.

On his way back he attacked the Golden Temple in Amritsar and filled its sacred pool with the blood of slaughtered cows. Durrani captured Amritsar in 1757, and sacked the Harmandir Sahib at which point the famous Baba Deep Singh and some of his loyalists were killed by the Afghans.[22] This final act was to be the start of long lasting bitterness between Sikhs and Afghans.[23]
Third battle of Panipat
Main article: Battle of Panipat (1761)
Durrani sitting on a brown horse during the 1761 Battle of Panipat in Northern India.

The Mughal power in northern India had been declining since the reign of Aurangzeb, who died in 1707. In 1751–52, the Ahamdiya treaty was signed between the Marathas and Mughals, when Balaji Bajirao was the Peshwa.[24] Through this treaty, the Marathas controlled virtually the whole of India from their capital at Pune and Mughal rule was restricted only to Delhi (Mughals remained the nominal heads of Delhi). Marathas were now straining to expand their area of control towards the Northwest of India. Ahmad Shah sacked the Mughal capital and withdrew with the booty he coveted. To counter the Afghans, Peshwa Balaji Bajirao sent Raghunathrao. He succeeded in ousting Timur Shah and his court from India and brought Lahore, Multan, Kashmir and other subahs on the Indian side of Attock under Maratha rule.[25] Thus, upon his return to Kandahar in 1757, Amidst appeals from Muslim leaders like Shah Waliullah,[26] Ahmad Shah chose to return to India and confront the Maratha Confederacy.

He declared a jihad (Islamic holy war) against the Marathas, and warriors from various Pashtun tribes, as well as other tribes such as the Baloch, Tajiks, and Muslims from South Asia answered his call. Early skirmishes ended in victory for the Afghans against the smaller Maratha garrisons in northwest India. By 1759, Durrani and his army had reached Lahore and were poised to confront the Marathas. By 1760, the Maratha groups had coalesced into a big enough army under the command of Sadashivrao Bhau. Once again, Panipat was the scene of a battle for control of northern India. The Third battle of Panipat (January 1761), fought between largely Muslim armies of Abdali and Nawabs and largely Hindu Maratha army was waged along a twelve-kilometre front, and resulted in a decisive victory for Ahmad Shah.[27]
Kashgaria
Further information: Kashgar#Qing_Reconquest

Ahmad Shah sought to aid the muslim city of Kashgar which was being conquered by the expanding Qing dynasty, artempting to rally Muslim states to check Qing expansion.[28] Ahmad Shah halted trade with Qing China and dispatched troops to Kokand.[29] However, with his campaigns in India exhausting the state treasury, and with his troops stretched thin throughout Central Asia, Ahmad Shah did not have enough resources to check Qing forces. In an effort to alleviate the situation in Kashgaria, Ahmad Shah sent envoys to Beijing, but the talks did not yield favourable prospects for the people of Kashgar.[30]
Rise of the Sikhs in the Punjab

During the Third Battle of Panipat between Marathas and Ahmad Shah, The Sikhs did not support either side and decided to sitback and see what would happen. The exception was Ala Singh of Patiala, who sided with the Afghans and was actually being granted and crowned the first Sikh Maharajah at the Sikh holy temple.[31]

The victory at Panipat was the high point of Ahmad Shah's and Afghan power, this situation was not to last long; the empire soon began to unravel. As early as by the end of 1761, the Sikhs had begun to rebel in much of the Punjab. In 1762, Ahmad Shah crossed the passes from Afghanistan for the sixth time to crush the Sikhs. He assaulted Lahore and Amritsar. Within two years, the Sikhs rebelled again, and he launched another campaign against them in 1764, resulting in an even battle. During his 8th invasion of India, the Sikhs vacated Lahore, but faced Abdali's army and general, Jahan Khan. The fear of his Indian territory falling to the Sikhs continued to obsess the Durrani's mind and he let out another campaign against Sikhs towards the close of 1766, which was his eighth invasion into India.
Death and legacy
The mausoleum of Ahmad Shah Durrani in Kandahar City, which also serves as the Friday Mosque and contains the sacred cloak that Islamic Prophet Muhammad wore.

Ahmad Shah Durrani died in 1772–73 in Kandahar Province. He was buried at a spot in Kandahar City, where a large mausoleum was built. It has been described in the following way:

Under the shimmering turquoise dome that dominates the sand-blown city of Kandahar lies the body of Ahmad Shah Abdali, the young Kandahari warrior who in 1747 became the region's first Durrani king. The mausoleum is covered in deep blue and white tiles behind a small grove of trees, one of which is said to cure toothache, and is a place of pilgrimage. In front of it is a small mosque with a marble vault containing one of the holiest relics in the Islamic World, a kherqa, the Sacred Cloak of Prophet Mohammed that was given to Ahmad Shah by Mured Beg, the Emir of Bokhara. The Sacred Cloak is kept locked away, taken out only at times of great crisis but the mausoleum is open and there is a constant line of men leaving their sandals at the door and shuffling through to marvel at the surprisingly long marble tomb and touch the glass case containing Ahmad Shah's brass helmet. Before leaving they bend to kiss a length of pink velvet said to be from his robe. It bears the unmistakable scent of jasmine.[32]

In his tomb his epitaph is written:

The King of high rank, Ahmad Shah Durrani,
Was equal to Kisra in managing the affairs of his government.
In his time, from the awe of his glory and greatness,
The lioness nourished the stag with her milk.
From all sides in the ear of his enemies there arrived
A thousand reproofs from the tongue of his dagger.
The date of his departure for the house of mortality
Was the year of the Hijra 1186 (1772 A.D.)[33]

Ahmad Shah's victory over the Marathas influenced the history of the subcontinent and, in particular, British policy in the region. His refusal to continue his campaigns deeper into India prevented a clash with the East India Company and allowed them to continue to acquire power and influence after their acquisition of Bengal in 1757. However, fear of another Afghan invasion was to haunt British policy for almost half a century after the battle of Panipat. The acknowledgment of Abdali's military accomplishments is reflected in a British intelligence report on the Battle of Panipat, which referred to Ahmad Shah as the 'King of Kings'.[34] This fear led in 1798 to a British envoy being sent to the Persian court in part to instigate the Persians in their claims on Herat to forestall an Afghan invasion of British India.[34] Mountstuart Elphinstone wrote of Ahmad Shah:

His military courage and activity are spoken of with admiration, both by his own subjects and the nations with whom he was engaged, either in wars or alliances. He seems to have been naturally disposed to mildness and clemency and though it is impossible to acquire sovereign power and perhaps, in Asia, to maintain it, without crimes; yet the memory of no eastern prince is stained with fewer acts of cruelty and injustice.
—Mountstuart Elphinstone

His successors, beginning with his son Timur and ending with Shuja Shah Durrani, proved largely incapable of governing the last Afghan empire and faced with advancing enemies on all sides. Much of the territory conquered by Ahmad Shah fell to others by the end of the 19th century. They not only lost the outlying territories but also alienated some Pashtun tribes and those of other Durrani lineages. Until Dost Mohammad Khan's ascendancy in 1826, chaos reigned in Afghanistan, which effectively ceased to exist as a single entity, disintegrating into a fragmented collection of small countries or units. This policy ensured that he did not continue on the path of other conquerors like Babur or Muhammad of Ghor and make India the base for his empire.

In Pakistan, a short-range ballistic missile Abdali-I, is named in the honour of Ahmed Shah Abdali.[35]
Ahmad Shah's poetry

Ahmad Shah wrote a collection of odes in his native Pashto language. He was also the author of several poems in Persian. The most famous Pashto poem he wrote was Love of a Nation:

By blood, we are immersed in love of you.
The youth lose their heads for your sake.
I come to you and my heart finds rest.
Away from you, grief clings to my heart like a snake.
I forget the throne of Delhi
when I remember the mountain tops of my Afghan land.
If I must choose between the world and you,
I shall not hesitate to claim your barren deserts as my own.[36][37]
 
.
Another race supremacist jumps in...i thought one was enough.

By your logic non punjabi's knowledge of punjabi meand nothing?
So non punjabi shouldnt bother trying to understand Punjabi as its not their language..
But then you say its a taboo for Punjabis to speak any other language,they should only speak pure guru nanak punjabi.
So how do you suggest people should communicate?
Sign language?

Try to understand rather than just post for the heck of it.

Where was it said that non-punjabis shouldnt talk in punjabi, it was one of the other guys saying urdu educated people in Pakistani punjab don't know Punjabi.

Race supremacist :lol: funny little guy
 
.
I will not let that go unanswered @Karachiite. @American Pakistani you to may be interested in this thread. Read post 315 for my background. My parents and everyone else in the extended family proudly call themselves Muhajir. I would not like to repeat this point like an orator or herald in the old days who stood on pulpits to declare a kings message until their voice became hoarse:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/afghan...vate-war-breaks-out-pak-afghan-border-21.html

Read it carefully, fully to understand my background. Now read this. Post 4:

Nationalist Statement on Ethno-fascism in Pakistan (Mohajir Nationalism-Altaf)

Read carefully... I will reply to the posts both of you have made... make a statement on armstrong's post and that of the confused Canadians as well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Being a Punjabi I can tell you that Punjabis rarely get a boner on Ethnic/ Racial issues. Lets gather around, Maharaja Da-Bang is going to tell Punjabis their glorious history and how we lost it all :partay:
 
.
This is who we are and we founded the school of Firangi Mahal. :) I will post things in bits because the topic is actually massive:
Founding of the school (Madrasul Darul Uloom)

"Hamaarey Hindostaan ka Cambridge yehi hai" - Maulana Shibli Nomani, India's most eminent historian and scholar


In Hyderabad, Mullah Asad bin Qutab Shaheed was at the court of Emperor Aurangzeb, who consulted him on Islamic matters. With the help of his brother, Mullah Asad who was living in Deccan at that time got a royal decree issued for the Governor of Lucknow to search of a desirable place to live in Lucknow. Mullah Saeed took this decree to Sehali. He met the Governor of Lucknow and chose two houses which were in the Mohallah “Ihatah Chiragh Baig”, these houses belonged to a French trader named Neal and after his departure, according to the law of the time, had come under the control of the government.

After a while this house and the area around it was given to Mullah Saeed bin Qutab uddin Shaheed and his brother Mullah Asad bin Qutab uddin Shaheed by the order of the Emperor. This royal decree is in the possession of Jamal Mian bin Maulana Abdul Bari and it clearly states the names of only Mullah Saeed and Mullah Asad. Mullah Nizam Uddin bin Mullah Qutab Uddin Shaheed and Mullah Raza bin Mullah Qutab Uddin Shaheed were young and their names could not be listed on this Royal Decree.

Along with the house, some land, in Baraicha and Barabanki was awarded specifically to Mullah Saeed. No exact account is available but all this land was lost by his decedents and now except for a small orchard in Sehali, none of this land belongs to the family. Mullah Saeed moved his whole family from Sehali to this house.

This eventually became the school today and its name Firangi Mahal is related to its former ownership by the Frenchman Neal. Firangi in Urdu now means "foreigner", but at this time Firangi was Arabic for a Frank.

BTW... note because basically these relatives are on Indian side and their patriotism will be questioned there so often they do not talk about the Muslim League and the massive role Firangi Mahal had in its formation, also they inherited all those properties and everything since we left Lucknow so basically its rather up to them to write our history. So you won't find glorification of Pakistan struggle and the famous Muslim League personalities that dined with my ancestors mentioned there, which is unfortunate. Hyderabad is very different though. Some people there are separatists because of certain events.

People who take Muhajir, Pashtun, Punjabi or any ethnic identity very seriously should think of this:
Abu Ayubb Ansari is our ancestor (Arab by descent)
Khwaja Abdullah Ansari is another (he became a Tajik and is known as such today)
Abdul Hakim Ansari (A chishti sufi-born in Delhi and died in Lahore)

Ethnicity is an ever-changing concept that never stays the same. Even the statement that I am Pashtun for 6000/5000/4000 years is incorrect because people constantly shift and migrate. Its basically what I call in my ethnic paper self-gratification or in other words excessive pride. There is a bani israel theory and for many of the tribes there are rumors, for one that it descended from Hazrat Suleiman. For the Marwats there are some too Luffy.
@Monkey D Luffy, you called my family "a low caste Indic" among other things. I would suggest you re-assess your pre-conceived notions. Two searches for you on google. Firangi Mahal and Ansari.

This history is sacred. What happened after 47 to these people and how they acted after they migrated is deplorable and condemnable. But that stuff before it is a very sacred part of our history. I sincerely hope you have changed Luffy but I do hope you and @darkinsky or @Karachiite realize how important people hold this history before you shoot your mouths off like loose cannons about the ancestors of others and the lack of history of various ethnic groups in Pakistan. Don't be part of the ethnic issue in this country. Anyone can be a reactionary and then claim I said it because he was insulting my ethnic group. That excuse doesn't even work for @Karachiite and @darkinsky when they know my ancestry. Still some heads only think about insulting others.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Nawabs of Rampur, a rohilla (pashtun) state. Rohillas - they were most fearsome pathans of india

Hamid%20Ali%20Khan%20of%20Rampur%20Nawab%20of%20Rampur.jpg

c.1870+PHOTO+INDIA+THE+NAWAB+OF+RAMPUR.JPG

57117.jpg

rampur_kazim.jpg

rampur-Muh%20Said.jpg

They don't belong to the promised land and don't speak pushto hence they are nakli Pathans. Please post some asli prominent Pathans (if they exist). Btw Rampur is where my paternal grandparent and their family are from :).I still have a lot of relatives living in Rampur and visited it when I was younger, great place.
 
.
Being a Punjabi I can tell you that Punjabis rarely get a boner on Ethnic/ Racial issues. Lets gather around, Maharaja Da-Bang is going to tell Punjabis their glorious history and how we lost it all :partay:
LOOLLL, thats was hilarious.
 
.
’Sheedi’ people or the indigenous Africans of Pakistan.

They are a group that trace their ethnic descent from Afro-Arabs or Black Africans, with many claiming their lineage from Hazrat Bilal.

Owing to interesting yet conflicting accounts of the linguistic background to the formation and origin of what they are actually called, the Sheedis are also addressed as Sidi, Habshi or Makraani.
[ Although, the use of the word Makrani may be wrong, it must also not be confused with the Baloch living at Makran. Sheedis and Baloch are two different people]

Reports and accounts related to their arrival in the region vary. Most say that they were brought here as soldiers by the several Arab invaders. The lesser validated view is what Amy Catlin, an ethno-musicologist from the University of California who specially studied Siddi culture, states:

‘The Siddis are descendants of African slaves, sailors and servants, and merchants who remained in India after arriving through the sea trade with East Africa and the Gulf, that was a process which began in the 12th century or before, and lasted until the late 19th century.”

Others refer to two historical happenings of the 17th Century [ The first is doubtful ], Omani Arabs ruled Balochistan and often used to practice the trading and buying of African slaves. The second referal is towards the reported arrival of the Portugese slave traders in the Indian Subcontinent, who sold a number of them to princes.

It may be deduced from all this, without generalization – that majority of Sheedis set their foot on this soil, as slaves. A conclusion affirmed by history: the origins and beginnings of Malik Andeel , Malik Ambar and Sidi Badr before their accession to power in ‘united India’.

An anthropologic report on the community reveals:

‘There are two types of Sheedis in Pakistan: Arab-originated (Makranis), who speak the Balochi language and live in Southern Balochistan. And the others are Africa-originated living in Sindh speak Sindhi language and are called as “Ghar Java”.

A wholly enlightening and engrossing site ‘The African Diaspora in the Indian Ocean World’ writes:

‘It has been estimated that at least a quarter of the total population of the Makran coast is of African ancestry – that is, at least 250,000 people there.’

Sheedis are exceptionally capable of holding quite a set of skills and much flair, especially in sports. Those settled in the town of Lyari, which is noted to be the centre of this community and ever heated criminal activity along with being the favourite battleground of different gangs, are famed for their incredible yet unpolished potential in boxing, football and other sports.

‘Lyari is known as a football hotbed in Pakistan. Many of the nation’s top players come from the area. Football is so popular that crime levels dip significantly during the FIFA World Cup season.’

Ali Ahsan mentions in his excellent compilation of the history of football in Pakistan:

‘The African-origin Sheedi community of the Makran coast and areas that now make up Karachi also, took up this sport with a love and passion that burns across Lyari.”

The most prominent of their events is the the annual Sheedi Mela, the vortex and the crescendo of the commemoration of the diversity that they represent, held in the rural area of Manghopir which is named after the Sufi Pir, Sakhi Sultan.

At the heart of the four-day festival are the crocodiles in the famed Manghopir pond, who are regarded as the disciples of Sakhi Sultan, particularly ‘Mor Sahib’; the eldest or the chief of the crocodiles.

With the very commencement of the festival, a vivacioulsy contagious spell of energy, enthusiam and a dynamic deluge of cultural celebration is unleased.

The ’Dhamaal’ and dance to the music and beating of the Congo Drums, and the practice of jumping over fire, are a clear homage to their rich African heritage and roots.

A central ritual in the Sheedi Mela, is the act of garlanding the ‘Mor Sahib‘, to which many pray to also.

sheedis.jpg

sheedi3.jpg

sheedi1.jpg
 
.
They don't belong to the promised land and don't speak pushto hence they are nakli Pathans. Please post some asli prominent Pathans (if they exist). Btw Rampur is where my paternal grandparent and their family are from :).I still have a lot of relatives living in Rampur and visited it when I was younger, great place.

You are an idiot, i am talking about those rohillas, pure pashtuns, who migrated from yousafzai plains to rohilkhand in early 18th century, they were speaking pashto with strong pakhtunwali. I am talking about rohillas like najib ud daula, hafiz rehmat khan who fought along side ahmad shah baba against marahatas. You should know that rohilla chief hafiz rehmat khan wrote famous pashto book "hayat hafiz rehmat khan".
When you see youself in mirror then you will definately not look like pashtun from any angle, most probably you will look like babur ghori, but for us and others you are "proof" of history of my rohilla pashtuns, nothing else... Go take pride in your pashto speaking ancestors , tell their tales to people, you are free to use our name and intimidate people. And i will use name of persons like you and tell the world that look we pashtuns have ruled U.P in 18th century.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom