Baithak: Cultures & Colors of Pakistan.

[474474]

Salut

happy new year hehehe

So back to the topic, I am very curious why some pakistani posteurs are so uptight about celebrating their cultural differences. Guys look at canada, our strength is in our diversity and I am sure our pakistani, indienne and other should embrace this as you guys are already living in a diverse environment, hopefully my anglais makes sense instead of ramble. I think the thread author is right to embrace his roots, is there a cultural month in pakistan to celebrate our differences. I know my grand papa lived in karachi but I also did extensive research to find out that my family roots is actually from Uttar pradesh state in india, ironic eh. So my point being we should embrace our cultural history rather than be afraid of it. Now I know you will accuse me of being hypocritical as quebecois nationalism has caused it to be a thorn in past but that was due to some extremist. Anyways bonne thread and please post more about your culture. I am also currently researching into pakistanis that have indienne roots, now i know to some might think that is wierd but I think there might be more pakistanis out there with possible indienne roots.
point of this ramble being that knowing your culture and ethnicity is good and interesting to know and one should be damn proud of it. pakistani and quebecois here and damn proud of it,anglos can suck it hehe

merci pour le thread

Ta anglais sont tres cute, tres bein compared to mon francais

They insult you but you have nothing but endless love for them?

we pakistani pashtuns dont use this term "dhaal khor".....i came to know about it on afghan forums.....they even called me dhalkhor

 

[474474]

Wow 5-10 million muslims left for pakistan, so my familie weren`t the only one your implying. your right I just found an article that verifies what you say, there might be a connection between people after my familie there and the events of mass migration your talking about. Man today is the best day of the year , merci for that, looks like i am going to be up all night reading up about this this. Thanks so much, thank lord that i stumble upon this thread, you saved me hours of researching.

I wish I could say the same, I have so many family and friends who went from Pakistan to Canada,maut unfortunately when you come to pak currency multiplies into rupees, but when I go rupees divide to dollars

 

[haviZsultan]

Luffy unfortunately is still in the habit of saying one or two things here to please the members so they get off his back and then going again... i seriously thought he had changed:

Comment on why Pashtunkhwa came to Pakistan from pashtunforums:

Its not the fault of sikhs, blame pashtuns. At that time there were inter-tribal wars all over pakhtunkhwa, i was reading history of my tribe, they were divided into two factions, not only they were slaughtering each other but they were also fighting wars with other tribes. Durrani rule was nominal, united forces of sikhs crossed indus and defeated disunited and weakend pashtun tribes one by one. No combined resistance against them was offered in the first place. Ghani khan has stated it beautifully " pashtun pa yway khabaray itifaq kawi che itifaq ba na kawo". Sikh rule was mostly limited to peshawer valley and hazara, i was reading "bannu or our afghan frontier", ranjeet singh never formally anexed bannu or marwat, sikh forces used to come to collect taxes on annual basis and that by use of sword. Sikh only ruled for 14 years, then came british. Pashtuns never offered them resistance as single nation. I have to say except ahmad shah abdali rule, pashtuns never worked as a single nation but as idependant tribes. They are very de-centralized people.
But yes british made NWFP part of punjab because they snatched it from sikhs. Then they kept it as province of british india and pakistan simply inherited it. Now without our knowledge our cultural genocide is taking place in pakistan. An educated institutionalized pashtun of pakistan is happy to paint his face green, making noises on 14th august but is ashamed of talking about pashtuniyat as it feels racism and ethno-fascism to him. Sikh and british never messed/interfered with our langauge, culture, traditions etc but in pakistan they are discouraged and demonized with tag of regionalism and provincialism, our ways of life are never promoted on national but instead they are rediculed and criticized.

 

[haviZsultan]

They don't belong to the promised land and don't speak pushto hence they are nakli Pathans. Please post some asli prominent Pathans (if they exist). Btw Rampur is where my paternal grandparent and their family are from .I still have a lot of relatives living in Rampur and visited it when I was younger, great place.

@Karachiite you are basically trying to obfuscate Muhajir history itself. A lot of Pashtuns living in India migrated to Pakistan after partition and started calling themselves Muhajir. Use a brain. Its non-consequential who is who. Learn to respect others history but being a bigot you and your ethno-fascist friends only area of expertise seems to be at making divisions in society on the basis of ethnicity.

Its amazing how when someone tries to remove a derogatory term like Muhajir from one of you guys your *** starts hurting... when I talk to my relatives and say they should just call ourselves Pakistani and if that is not possible we are in Sindh just normal sindhis they say no one wants to accept us in the country. Hilarious! Have we tried?

Right now terror chief is calling for muhajirs to fight Pashtuns just as he did for them to attack sindhis in the 1980's. Crazy people are making efforts to deny some of their own history to rewrite and rewarp it. Lots of Muhajirs were Pashtuns before they moved to Pakistan. Basically these guys are insulting themselves.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

If you speak pashto in home then i am sure you dont use word "pathan" for each other.......pathan is to pashtun like mughal is to mongol.... mughals didnt speak their ancestor langauge mongolian neither they were following much of the culture , traditions and customs of their ancestors mongols of mongolia........

I think you should just let it go and focus on the topic, that is the best advice i could give to you --instead of coming up with distractions.

what do you say

 

[Karachiite]

@Karachiite you are basically trying to obfuscate Muhajir history itself. A lot of Pashtuns living in India migrated to Pakistan after partition and started calling themselves Muhajir. Use a brain. Its non-consequential who is who. Learn to respect others history but being a bigot you and your ethno-fascist friends only area of expertise seems to be at making divisions in society on the basis of ethnicity.

Its amazing how when someone tries to remove a derogatory term like Muhajir from one of you guys your *** starts hurting... when I talk to my relatives and say they should just call ourselves Pakistani and if that is not possible we are in Sindh just normal sindhis they say no one wants to accept us in the country. Hilarious! Have we tried?

Right now terror chief is calling for muhajirs to fight Pashtuns just as he did for them to attack sindhis in the 1980's. Crazy people are making efforts to deny some of their own history to rewrite and rewarp it. Lots of Muhajirs were Pashtuns before they moved to Pakistan. Basically these guys are insulting themselves.

Not sure why you insist on writing me essays. It is clear my post about nakli Pathans was a joke. Don't know why you keep getting worked up about everything, maybe some time away from the internet will do you good. And then you bring in MQM like I am some MNA or official spokesperson of MQM.

You seem to think all the wrongs were done by Muhajirs and MQM. Where were you when Muhajirs were not allowed jobs in the government, where were you when 300 Muhajir men, women and kids were killed in Hyderabad in 1988 in a single day by Sindhi militants. I can name you over a hundred of these incidents where my people were being slaughtered. This is the reason why people support MQM, because MQM gave a voice to people with no voice. Had it not been for MQM, Muhajirs would be on the brink of extinction.

And as for the term Muhajir, I have no problems with it. Muhajirs were the only people pre 1970s that called themselves Pakistani. The rest were calling themselves by their ethnicity. My people were called Panah Guzeer, Hindustani, Makars and recently Bhookay Nangay by other ethnic groups. The term Muhajir for us represents the hateful past that we went through.

 

[haviZsultan]

Okay time for the rubbish to actually be refuted.

Let me find all those old posts promoting MQM rubbish...

 

[haviZsultan]

First of - Pakistan is not a Secular State its the Islamic Republic of Pakistan ! Whether it was intended to be a Secular State or not is debatable & i s debatedto this date here in Pakistan.

That is an opinion. Pakistan i do not believe is either secular nor is it in any way an Islamic republic. It failed in the vision of its founder @liontk which was a secular Pakistan because of the mullahs and it failed to become an Islamic republic. I am glad u made it clear that there are 2 views on the given subject @Armstrong. Seriously my brain would fry trying to teach someone about us.

But about the MQM you did not give the various views when he asked?

good day monsieur Havizsultan

At first I didn't understandwhat you were refferring to but then I did my reading from various sources online and its saddening to say the least from your response, you should atleast show some respect to "muhajir" members of this forum. There families went through alot of trauma to arrive to this nation of pakistan and instead of the republic integrating them, they were forced to face massive discrimination and a government genocide ranging from 1992-1996. While i am not native to pakistan, but I do have culturally similar background to these folks so i can symphatize by them, because I mean leaving all your property to reach the promised nation only to find stauch discrimination is rather saddening to say the least. So my point is you should understand their positions before casting a judgement and @Karachiite, sorry brother for not understanding your position earlier and considering you a racist bigot(did alot of readings last night hehe).
also happy new years mon ami

Let me go into the background. This may be surprising but I am a self-deprecating Muhajir.
That is I am Muhajir by birth but I have chosen to abandon my ethnic identity which 2 illiterate MQM supporters here are unwilling to read or understand. There are links to Pashtuns, albeit weak but unconfirmed.

Why would I want to abandon my ethnic identity and my 100-200+ years of Lucknowi (its a town in what is now India-google it, its from where I am originally) heritage? I will explain that in Armstrong's reply but in simple terms it is in sheer frustration of the atrocities Muhajirs militant wing the MQM has committed and how despite sacrificing everything they became bigots. It shows short sightedness on our part because making a long trek with half of you dying across the border shows that you really care about the cause.

The term Muhajir basically wasn't supposed to be an ethnic identity. Let me tell you what it means... it basically means a pilgrim or a traveler... one who moves basically for religious reasons. Now in 47 I admit we were travelers... but once a person has settled is he still supposed to be a Muhajir? Come on its a common sense question. Now let me tell you what happened. There was a mass migration as you know... but there are 4 provinces... Muhajirs settled in mostly the eastern ones (Punjab and to a larger extent Sindh) There was a small trickle that went to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan. Now the ones that went to Balochistan and KP merged with the ethnic groups present there. The ones in Punjab too did the same to a large extent. The issue was in Karachi. If you look at it at least 60-70% of the population is Muhajir. In other words a massive wave of refugees from India settled there. Now Sindhi's speak sindhi and there are a few cultural differences that ensured Urdu speakers became a separate community. I hold that this was on account of our parents/grandfathers failure to integrate, learn the language and respect the local people.

These people from Karachi are actually the only ones who actually failed to integrate within the various ethnic groups already existing. They are also the more populous of the refugees as most moved to Karachi and Sindh.

Frankly fine... why should there be a problem if Muhajirs became a separate ethnic group? It is no issue as such but the problem is much larger than this. In Pakistan ethnic politics has become a large issue and it is in the interest of a leader who takes part in it to make communities fight... if they do it means that their votebank is increasing. This is how terror-chief Altaf gains votes and this is why target killing is common in Karachi, the city inhabited by guess who-us loveable fluffy muhajirs who think everyone else should just dance for us and stay under our thumb.

But this has become a cause of major issues. Urdu is the national language of Pakistan... but it was meant to be a neutral language. The language of no single ethnic group. The muhajirs by failing to integrate created a major issue. Our language is basically being imposed on others and @Monkey D Luffy (a half-hearted separatist) can claim the setup favors the Muhajirs inherently. I hold this is actually true to an extent. According to H&H research Muhajirs have a GDP per capita Rs 13,000 higher than that of the ethnic group that is second, Punjabis and much higher than that on the bottom. A case study would be the directors for radio pakistan. In total muhajirs are 8% of the total Pakistani population (this is inflated since the census favors urdu-speakers because lots of ethnic groups are losing their regional languages in favor of urdu and the census doesn't ask ethnic group but mother tongue.) but 30%+ of the directors for radio pakistan were urdu speakers. Even @darkinsky @American Pakistani and @Karachiite will confirm that this is a reality and they make up the well-educated section of society in a much better position than others.

That puts in the rubbish claims by @Karachiite of non-existent oppression (how can oppression take place against a community in a better position) but do note this is the national trend. Even if you find a king in Pakistan he will feel he has somehow been oppressed. What I think it is, is ethnic chauvinism because it can only be that either all of us (all ethnic groups) are oppressed or none of us. I have fought Luffy too who is from my adopted ethnic group the Pashtuns... just I did MQM Muhajir bigots but of course i cannot as openly criticize many aspects as of the muhajirs. You see monsieur the thing is you are from Quebec, you criticize people from white horse there is a possibility you may be labelled a bigot but if you criticize people from Quebec even if you decide for some reason to call urself a nova-scotian you will feel you have a bigger right... and only a fool can call you a bigot. You get it?

So essentially one poster is arguing that the Muhajirs should have assimilated into the Provinces they found themselves in whereas the other is arguing that no they shouldn't have because they were the ones whom Pakistan belongs the most to because they were the most active participants in it.

On my part I think they're both wrong ! Muhajirs should indeed maintain their own separate cultural & ethnic identity with the locals giving them their due space to express themselves but at the same time they mustn't come across as holier-than-thou purer Pakistanis than the locals because the locals sacrificed for this country too !

What armstrong conveniently fails to mention here is that I am by birth a Muhajir. who is by choice a Pashtun and for the past few years has been adopting Pashtun culture and gradually even language. @Armstrong... let me be clear... no one quits his ethnic group unless he is totally pissed the **** off. As long as the MQM exists they will not just come off as holier than thou but will constantly 24/7 be insulting Punjabis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris and basically everyone else. If you don't believe me check @darkinsky's last 50 posts, do it. Just check everything he wrote-he is by nature a bigot-Allah has cursed him to be like this for the rest of his life. I mean there is so much self-victimization in these guys and fakhar over their role in partition that they have shut themselves up in a bubble. They refuse to acknowledge that anyone exists outside this bubble. It is all about them and this is what they mean when they say MQM gave us an identity which is basically one of looters, bhatta-khors, target-killers and kidnappers but it is one they aren't ashamed of.

Man armstrong... what the hell you know about us? You know how our family talks? We pass by a Pashtun colony this is what they say, "MQM and police recently removed all the Pathans from here. Why don't they go and stay in Afghanistan. Very good move. Only MQM can protect us."

We talk about Sindhis... this is what they say. "Those people are all traitors anyway." A Sindhi watchman is sitting nearby and they say "These jahil sindhis want to come to karachi."

We guys are racists of the highest order. You want to know MQM I am a journalist... ask me what kind of crimes these guys have committed. They feel Karachi is a baap ki jagir... they are feudals in their own way. They don't respect anyone else. Man you think you know these people? How idiots like Luffy are born. When they see the bias... in our company Muhajirs used to band up against Pathans and bash them calling them things like Afghan ki awlaad, jahil, aur meri jooti pey hai Pakhtoonkhwa (when the name was being changed) You think this is right. @darkinsky and @Karachiite are hypocrites but they know even they themselves and their relatives talk in this way at home. I will post Ajmal Pahari's confession right now and they will go on defence mode.

No atonement on our part is perhaps going to wash our sin of voting a bigot in all the time @Armstrong. I can start naming you case studies of people killed by the MQM. A friend still cries about a father the MQM killed, an uncles restaurant was shut down, every businessman knows how much bhatta these guys collect.

That term Muhajir is a demeaning identity but basically you see these people are too attached to it... @darkinsky and @Karachiite will start shooting off at me for criticizing how my family behaved after it moved from Lucknow but they won't look at the possibility that they are just stupid. Forget disengaging them from Muhajir identity I can't even disengage them from MQM.

@liontk Issue is basically what the respective parties representing these ethnic groups particularly the Muhajirs has done. And @liontk do note that Armstrong is not from this ethnic group... so basically he is trying to be a very nice person. He has seen some of the stuff MQM supporters have said here and at many other places to other ethnic groups and people but basically he cannot agree with me.

If he says I am right... he being from an ethnic group other than muhajirs may be labelled a bigot. He doesn't want that so he is taking the morally high position and basically defending the right of Muhajirs to exist as a separate group... his way of showing his support for ethnic solidarity which I admire... but I would like it if he let me deal with these bigots who hate everyone else.

Me, the thing is I openly call myself Pashtun (another word for Pathan) in my efforts to integrate and eliminate the ethnic issue but i will always have a right to speak about the atrocities of the MQM, the decline of the muhajirs from those who sacrificed their lives for high ideals to bigots and will forever be saddened by how our extended family let us down by becoming part of a cycle of hate that is drowning my country.

I hope that is an answer. I would like to tell you what Haji Khan did when he met Greg Mortenson... he said please keep quiet when Greg tried to speak and told him to learn things and understand them. You have too little knowledge my canuck friend to make judgements of that type. Westerners sometimes aren't liked because they are judgmental about our society.

i hope this clears up a lot of misconceptions.

 

[Armstrong]

@haviZsultan : Mein ne kiyaa kahaa thaaa ?

And yes there are two opinions just as there are two opinions on what Jinnah Sahib wanted Pakistan to be too !

I think mine is the correct one !

 

[liontk]

That is an opinion. Pakistan i do not believe is either secular nor is it in any way an Islamic republic. It failed in the vision of its founder @liontk which was a secular Pakistan because of the mullahs and it failed to become an Islamic republic. I am glad u made it clear that there are 2 views on the given subject @Armstrong. Seriously my brain would fry trying to teach someone about us.

But about the MQM you did not give the various views when he asked?



Let me go into the background. This may be surprising but I am a self-deprecating Muhajir.
That is I am Muhajir by birth but I have chosen to abandon my ethnic identity which 2 illiterate MQM supporters here are unwilling to read or understand. There are links to Pashtuns, albeit weak but unconfirmed.

Why would I want to abandon my ethnic identity and my 100-200+ years of Lucknowi (its a town in what is now India-google it, its from where I am originally) heritage? I will explain that in Armstrong's reply but in simple terms it is in sheer frustration of the atrocities Muhajirs militant wing the MQM has committed and how despite sacrificing everything they became bigots. It shows short sightedness on our part because making a long trek with half of you dying across the border shows that you really care about the cause.

The term Muhajir basically wasn't supposed to be an ethnic identity. Let me tell you what it means... it basically means a pilgrim or a traveler... one who moves basically for religious reasons. Now in 47 I admit we were travelers... but once a person has settled is he still supposed to be a Muhajir? Come on its a common sense question. Now let me tell you what happened. There was a mass migration as you know... but there are 4 provinces... Muhajirs settled in mostly the eastern ones (Punjab and to a larger extent Sindh) There was a small trickle that went to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan. Now the ones that went to Balochistan and KP merged with the ethnic groups present there. The ones in Punjab too did the same to a large extent. The issue was in Karachi. If you look at it at least 60-70% of the population is Muhajir. In other words a massive wave of refugees from India settled there. Now Sindhi's speak sindhi and there are a few cultural differences that ensured Urdu speakers became a separate community. I hold that this was on account of our parents/grandfathers failure to integrate, learn the language and respect the local people.

These people from Karachi are actually the only ones who actually failed to integrate within the various ethnic groups already existing. They are also the more populous of the refugees as most moved to Karachi and Sindh.

Frankly fine... why should there be a problem if Muhajirs became a separate ethnic group? It is no issue as such but the problem is much larger than this. In Pakistan ethnic politics has become a large issue and it is in the interest of a leader who takes part in it to make communities fight... if they do it means that their votebank is increasing. This is how terror-chief Altaf gains votes and this is why target killing is common in Karachi, the city inhabited by guess who-us loveable fluffy muhajirs who think everyone else should just dance for us and stay under our thumb.

But this has become a cause of major issues. Urdu is the national language of Pakistan... but it was meant to be a neutral language. The language of no single ethnic group. The muhajirs by failing to integrate created a major issue. Our language is basically being imposed on others and @Monkey D Luffy (a half-hearted separatist) can claim the setup favors the Muhajirs inherently. I hold this is actually true to an extent. According to H&H research Muhajirs have a GDP per capita Rs 13,000 higher than that of the ethnic group that is second, Punjabis and much higher than that on the bottom. A case study would be the directors for radio pakistan. In total muhajirs are 8% of the total Pakistani population (this is inflated since the census favors urdu-speakers because lots of ethnic groups are losing their regional languages in favor of urdu and the census doesn't ask ethnic group but mother tongue.) but 30%+ of the directors for radio pakistan were urdu speakers. Even @darkinsky @American Pakistani and @Karachiite will confirm that this is a reality and they make up the well-educated section of society in a much better position than others.

That puts in the rubbish claims by @Karachiite of non-existent oppression (how can oppression take place against a community in a better position) but do note this is the national trend. Even if you find a king in Pakistan he will feel he has somehow been oppressed. What I think it is, is ethnic chauvinism because it can only be that either all of us (all ethnic groups) are oppressed or none of us. I have fought Luffy too who is from my adopted ethnic group the Pashtuns... just I did MQM Muhajir bigots but of course i cannot as openly criticize many aspects as of the muhajirs. You see monsieur the thing is you are from Quebec, you criticize people from white horse there is a possibility you may be labelled a bigot but if you criticize people from Quebec even if you decide for some reason to call urself a nova-scotian you will feel you have a bigger right... and only a fool can call you a bigot. You get it?



What armstrong conveniently fails to mention here is that I am by birth a Muhajir. who is by choice a Pashtun and for the past few years has been adopting Pashtun culture and gradually even language. @Armstrong... let me be clear... no one quits his ethnic group unless he is totally pissed the **** off. As long as the MQM exists they will not just come off as holier than thou but will constantly 24/7 be insulting Punjabis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris and basically everyone else. If you don't believe me check @darkinsky's last 50 posts, do it. Just check everything he wrote-he is by nature a bigot-Allah has cursed him to be like this for the rest of his life. I mean there is so much self-victimization in these guys and fakhar over their role in partition that they have shut themselves up in a bubble. They refuse to acknowledge that anyone exists outside this bubble. It is all about them and this is what they mean when they say MQM gave us an identity which is basically one of looters, bhatta-khors, target-killers and kidnappers but it is one they aren't ashamed of.

Man armstrong... what the hell you know about us? You know how our family talks? We pass by a Pashtun colony this is what they say, "MQM and police recently removed all the Pathans from here. Why don't they go and stay in Afghanistan. Very good move. Only MQM can protect us."

We talk about Sindhis... this is what they say. "Those people are all traitors anyway." A Sindhi watchman is sitting nearby and they say "These jahil sindhis want to come to karachi."

We guys are racists of the highest order. You want to know MQM I am a journalist... ask me what kind of crimes these guys have committed. They feel Karachi is a baap ki jagir... they are feudals in their own way. They don't respect anyone else. Man you think you know these people? How idiots like Luffy are born. When they see the bias... in our company Muhajirs used to band up against Pathans and bash them calling them things like Afghan ki awlaad, jahil, aur meri jooti pey hai Pakhtoonkhwa (when the name was being changed) You think this is right. @darkinsky and @Karachiite are hypocrites but they know even they themselves and their relatives talk in this way at home. I will post Ajmal Pahari's confession right now and they will go on defence mode.

No atonement on our part is perhaps going to wash our sin of voting a bigot in all the time @Armstrong. I can start naming you case studies of people killed by the MQM. A friend still cries about a father the MQM killed, an uncles restaurant was shut down, every businessman knows how much bhatta these guys collect.

That term Muhajir is a demeaning identity but basically you see these people are too attached to it... @darkinsky and @Karachiite will start shooting off at me for criticizing how my family behaved after it moved from Lucknow but they won't look at the possibility that they are just stupid. Forget disengaging them from Muhajir identity I can't even disengage them from MQM.

@liontk Issue is basically what the respective parties representing these ethnic groups particularly the Muhajirs has done. And @liontk do note that Armstrong is not from this ethnic group... so basically he is trying to be a very nice person. He has seen some of the stuff MQM supporters have said here and at many other places to other ethnic groups and people but basically he cannot agree with me.

If he says I am right... he being from an ethnic group other than muhajirs may be labelled a bigot. He doesn't want that so he is taking the morally high position and basically defending the right of Muhajirs to exist as a separate group... his way of showing his support for ethnic solidarity which I admire... but I would like it if he let me deal with these bigots who hate everyone else.

Me, the thing is I openly call myself Pashtun (another word for Pathan) in my efforts to integrate and eliminate the ethnic issue but i will always have a right to speak about the atrocities of the MQM, the decline of the muhajirs from those who sacrificed their lives for high ideals to bigots and will forever be saddened by how our extended family let us down by becoming part of a cycle of hate that is drowning my country.

I hope that is an answer. I would like to tell you what Haji Khan did when he met Greg Mortenson... he said please keep quiet when Greg tried to speak and told him to learn things and understand them. You have too little knowledge my canuck friend to make judgements of that type. Westerners sometimes aren't liked because they are judgmental about our society.

i hope this clears up a lot of misconceptions.

Can you please post some links so I can read the things from your perspective. from my research @Karachiite was correct in his defence of staunch racial discrimination. I mean have you had a look at the pictures of the protesters killed from 1992-1996, very gruesome pictures monsieur. As far knowledge goes, your right I have to be patient and read all sides before casting judgement, and not mix emotions with reality though explosion in the coastal city of karachi does worry me and kind of defends the point Karachiite was making.
On to second point though your write in integrating to local culture like my grandpa did in Canada by marrying a quebecois women, I still did not give up on my partial pakistani like some pakistani rather embraced it. Its like me trying to be an anglophone, its hard for me to mix because of my accent in speaking english, "remember blood is thicker than water" as the saying goes.

 

[A.Rafay]

Okay time for the rubbish to actually be refuted.

Let me find all those old posts promoting MQM rubbish...

@haviZsultan take a look at this protest by MQM, A guy just ranted against altaf!! I dont know if he survived or not! But l laughed so hard

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=258798364162497

 

[haviZsultan]

^^^^^ I respect your efforts for ethnic unity armstrong. But please let me criticize the muhajirs.

You know how I have been chasing luffy. I hate bigots who think too highly of their race and constantly spew this we are oppressed, we are oppressed rubbish.

JF17 thunder coming at you Karachite and darkinsky you MQM bigots.
How dare you support Altaf's speech. You saw Altaf's partition speech @Armstrong?

 

[Armstrong]

^^^^^ I respect your efforts for ethnic unity armstrong. But please let me criticize the muhajirs.

You know how I have been chasing luffy. I hate bigots who think too highly of their race and constantly spew this we are oppressed, we are oppressed rubbish.

JF17 thunder coming at you Karachite and darkinsky you MQM bigots.
How dare you support Altaf's speech. You saw Altaf's partition speech @Armstrong?

I'm a Punjabi & I'm desensitized to all of this ! Whether its the Kalabagh Dam or the NFC Award or being made the scape-goat for every ill in Pakistan - We've sacrificed & would probably continue to sacrifice because the Federation comes first, second & last !

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@haviZsultan take a look at this protest by MQM, A guy just ranted against altaf!! I dont know if he survived or not! But l laughed so hard

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=258798364162497

probably a victim of target killing 4 hours later.....

this video is just proof that you have protestors-4-hire in Pakistan; i wonder what the going rate is nowdays

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan take a look at this protest by MQM, A guy just ranted against altaf!! I dont know if he survived or not! But l laughed so hard

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=258798364162497

Man Rafay seriously man you are a brother to me. Hearing Altaf ***** makes me happy with pleasure... total ecstacy like i'm on weed. I was laughing like crazy. darkinsky has to see this... but maybe he will go on a killing spree so best not let him watch it.

I doubt he survived. Those guys started pushing him and stuff. But it was hilarious watching it. Is that guy trying to make a fire for these MQM guys... i don't understand why he was there?!? He looks dubious.

You know there is one ghairat crowd that is always defending the Taliban. The other ghairat crowd feels their ethnicity is always under threat and includes people like Monkey D Luffy, Karachiite and darkinsky. Zulfiqar Mirza said something regrettable (there was a background-some points he made were even right) but man... can you believe these guys?!?! They say the same thing about other ethnic groups daily and no one can walk into their drawing room... all that exists in it is abuse.

This is what I fight. Ethnic polarization. When we were condemning Zulfiqar Mirza (I mean my family and khandaan) and everyone was going mad... muhajir ko yeh kaisay bula dia... (according to them sirf ham doosron ko galiyan dey saktey hain ) At that time you know what I did. I said Muhajirs should calm down and think about what kind of things we guys say in our living rooms daily. If we don't like being called things like this then we shouldn't call others things.

The collective outrage against me expressed by my khandaan drowned out every other voice for a while... how can you say that. He is insulting you! He is insulting you! He is insulting all Muhajirs... ya toh keh do tum muhajir nahi ho. Then some self gratification-rubbish about how muhajirs made pakistan (forgetting how the hur movement of sindh fought for it and supported Jinnah and how Muslim League victory in Punjab paved the way for things or stalwarts like Abdul Rab Nishtar) then victimization... typical traits of a fascist mind.
@A.Rafay we have stopped feeling for other people and fellow countrymen. We are just in a bubble and we want to remain there. We want to create separate communities for ourselves and divide ourselves further and further. No one thinks about Pakistan. Its a sad situation. When I look at my relatives taking so much pride in this stupid identity while acting worse than Ku Klux Klan... it saddens me that our rich history is being blackened.

I feel there is no real hope... I gave up on the entire ethnic group as a whole. They can't learn... its in their mindset and it will remain there like grime and detritus left after rain or a tide.

I told you about firangi Mahal, our ancestral home. An excerpt:

Maulana Hasrat Mohani, the fourteenth president of the former All-India Muslim League which created Pakistan under the leadership of the Quaid-e-Azam, Mohammad Ali Jinnah died in Farangi Mahall on May 13, 1951, and was buried in the historic graveyard of Ulema-e-Farangi-Mahall, usually called “Maulvi Anwaar Ka Bagh”. Perhaps he had an intuition about his burial place because in “Kuliyat-e-Hasrat” he wrote a special poem on the Bagh.

We knew all these people of the Pakistan movement like Hasrat Mohani... Muslim League leaders stayed in our Lucknow home. Don't know what evil eye came upon us so that we had to produce bigots like darkinsky and W.11.

I can only apologize, Rafay for what MQM has done, especially against other ethnic groups, we were to work for Pakistan not try to maintain our position on the top... though I have no idea how that would work if I apologize because I do not consider myself a Muhajir anymore in my attempt to adopt Pashtun identity.

Also see how they bring their kids... its not to protest Mirza's comment... its to perpetuate the myth of non-existant oppression being meted out to Muhajirs. A lot of them are future @darkinsky and @W.11's. I don't see hope.