Babur vs Krishnadevaraya in 16th century

[Vinod2070]

LOL and what is the name of the book?

It is fine to be ignorant.

Not fine to flaunt the ignorance.

 

[SwatCat]

No, Afghanistan (or at least the eastern part) was under Babur. As far as I know he was buried in Kabul. The height of the main entrance there has been made low so that a visitor bows his head before entering.

I think, you are talking about Samarkand. Yes, he could not take it back. Some of his descendants, probably Jahangir, tried to get it back into his family possession, but it was repulsed.

Whatever it may be, Babur was an Indian King, but was born in another country. There is nothing unnatural about this kind of thing. Napolean Bonaparte was born in Cicily, Hitler in Australia, Barack Obama from Keniya and Queen Elizabeth's family from Germany. History is full of all these happenings that cannot be changed.

Thank you for the clarification regarding Samarkhand.

Below is the map of Babur empire

The terrain of the most of the Timurid empire is mountainous and very less populated and if you get the support of the tribes there you can easily conquer the place and keep the control of that place. Just like what pakistan is doing right now using Taliban.

The main achievement of Babur is conquering Ibrahim lodi through some alliances and the weakest time of Delhi.

If you see the same map The Vijianagara empire lies in the south and in between them there are various sultanates they are not the friends of Babur but each one has their own plans.

If Krishna devaraya fights with Babur, A united north India is not possible.

I think Akbar is considered as an Emperor born and India one than Babur. He is an invader from Afghanistan.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

It is fine to be ignorant.

Not fine to flaunt the ignorance.

Yup it really fine to be ignorant!!!!!!

Ulta Choor Kutwal ko danty.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Who could win a battle between the 2 most powerful rulers of early 16th century India?
Both rulers ruled during the same period in the early 16th century. Babur (1483-1530) was the founder of the Mughal Empire of north India and Krishnadevaraya (1471-1529) was the greatest ruler of the Vijayanagar Empire in southern India.

Babur

Krishnadevaraya

Battles can be won by anyone on a given day depending on the moves of adversaries... Same applies for war. This thread seems to be more like a fanboy thread.

 

[scorpionx]

Whatever it may be, Babur was an Indian King, but was born in another country. There is nothing unnatural about this kind of thing. Napolean Bonaparte was born in Cicily, Hitler in Australia, Barack Obama from Keniya and Queen Elizabeth's family from Germany. History is full of all these happenings that cannot be changed.

Babur,atleast in his own life time never considered himself to be an Indian. In his autobiography,he repeatedly mentions his uneasiness about this country be it it's people or climate.His persianised sense of art,poetry and most importantly the culture of gardening always haunted him when he was moving towards east.

Rajputs are clannish, so they exist as rajputs. Mughals were Muslims who have mingled with other muslims, and being deprived of their political power by the betrayal by the Punjabis in 1857, they became destitute like many other Muslims. Remained at the tops were the rajputs and a few Nawabs of then India including Nizam of Hyderabad.

Traitors retained their positions and you are here to praise them. Were the Mughals or the Muslims your enemy? Muslims contributed much to Hindustan.

The Mughals became puppet regime of the East India Company almost 100 years before the mutiny.They were arrogantly termed as just ruler of Delhi in the Inner circle of the company.No body betrayed them in 1857 as there was no scope of betraying at all.There are thousand reasons why the mutiny did not succeed,but definitely it was not the punjabi merchant class.

 

[DarkPrince]

Babur,atleast in his own life time never considered himself to be an Indian. In his autobiography,he repeatedly mentions his uneasiness about this country be it it's people or climate.His persianised sense of art,poetry and most importantly the culture of gardening always haunted him when he was moving towards east.

coz persian culture is cool mama

 

[scorpionx]

coz persian culture is cool mama

I absolutely agree.Who can deny their sense of art,literature,poetry or architectural masterpieces? The amalgamation of Persian culture with ours perhaps one of the best thing happened in Indian History.

 

[DarkPrince]

I absolutely agree.Who can deny their sense of art,literature,poetry or architectural masterpieces? The amalgamation of Persian culture with ours perhaps one of the best thing happened in Indian History.

fully agreed. i adore 2 cultures mama persian n japanese

 

[scorpionx]

fully agreed. i adore 2 cultures mama persian n japanese

Interesting choices.Both cultures are quite different in style but there are very striking similarities in nature.

 

[cbk123]

I am possibly late in responding but below are the facts -
Battle of Raichur(1520) - Vijayanagar fielded around a million against an army of 300000 fielded by four allied kings. The divisions of army used by both the armies - infantry, cavalry, seige machinery, cannons, elephantine cavalry. On top of this, Vijayanagar used mercenary(Portuguese) snipers. The battle was for the capture of a fort which was never captured in battle before. It fell in this battle.
Since Bijapur was the best in India with respect to artillery related warfare with Goa as the headquarters, Krishnadeva Raya aided the Portuguese to capture Goa. Wether it was a hardy Uzbek or a Persian with full of African cavalry and infantry, they shouldn't be in a position to win against Krishnadeva Raya, one major reason being the fact that the main victories of Babur were achieved through defections. I am not sure of the one with Rana Sanga though. Whom are we expecting to defect from the Vijayanagar army?
As regarding the wars of Vijayanagar under Krishna Deva Raya -
Battle of Raichur - Defeated an army with major wings as infantry, cavalry and artillery
Invasion of Kalinga(Orissa) - Defeated an army with major wings as infantry and elephantine cavalry. It is no mean feat to burn the capital cities of one of the most powerful kingdoms of the age that too when the capital is an island fortress with the minimum breadth of water on any side is more than a kilometer.
Next point to consider - We are not talking of Babur advancing to south to attack Vijayanagar or Vijayanagar marching to Delhi to attack Babur, but fight at their advantage.

Next is period of rule.
Mughals - 1526-1543, 1555-1707. In power till 1858
Vijayanagar - 1336-1614. In power till 1650

The might of Vijayanagar was destroyed in 1565 by the allied armies of the Deccan Sultanates and the capital burnt. But we see that Vijayanagar armies at the gates of one of the allied capitals(Golconda) within a generation and Akbar contemplating an attack on Vijayanagar which was scrapped because of his death. So much for the crushing of it's power. The actual edifice crumbled in 1614 in a civil war where the main battle(Toppur) is still considered one of the largest in India.

Next is the architecture. Vijayanagar under Krishnadeva Raya is either the largest or the second largest city of the world with a population of 500000. As regarding architecture, these are what I pit against -
Taj Mahal with any of the super temple complexes - Madurai(actually built by their governors who were practically independent) or Chidambaram or Srikalahasti or any such
Fatehpur Sikri with Vijayanagar city itself. Even the ruins present now tell of the extent and grandeur of the city.
Another thing is Vijayanagar is in the area where kingdoms are destroyed unlike North India where they are just supplanted. Do we know of any serious destruction to any North Indian city between the invasion of Timur and that of Nadir Shah?

 

[cbk123]

This is the case in a one off stand off. But I am not sure what happens in case of a long war of attrition. We have examples of both the types. Kakatiyas lost against Delhi after wars stretching 20 years while Mughal empire crumbled after the long fight against the Marathas.