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Is Gen. Hayri Kivrikoglu related to Gen. Huseyn Kivrikoglu?


en.apa.az/xeber_two_azerbaijani_medals_conferred_on_comm_195761.html

Two Azerbaijani medals conferred on Commander of Turkish Land Forces

[ 03 July 2013 18:38 ]

Baku – APA. Being on a visit to Azerbaijan, Commander of Turkish Land Forces, General Hayri Kivrikoglu has today met with Defense Minister, Colonel General Safar Abiyev.


Defense Ministry’s press service told APA that Kivrikoglu visited the graves of Heydar Aliyev and academician Zarifa Aliyeva in the Alley of Honor, Alley of Martyrs and Turkish Martyrdom Monument.

Abiyev said that this visit is based on mutual traditions of friendship and brotherhood.

They exchanged views on prospects of military cooperation between the two countries and coordination of teaching and learning process.

Under the order of Azerbaijani Defense Minister, medal "For merits in military cooperation" and "95th anniversary" medal of Azerbaijani Armed Forces were conferred on General Hayri Kivrikoglu for his contributions to strengthening and developing military cooperation between Turkish and Azerbaijani Armed Forces.
 
Baykuş;4482821 said:
armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_vehicles_system_artillery_uk/2s31_vena_self-propelled_mortar_carrier_data_sheet_specifications_information_intelligence_pictures.html#Data



I see. So it's meant to be a modern replacement of the BM-21 Grad and the BM-30 Smerch on the long run, I believe.

just BM-21
Azerbaijan bought a new batch of Smerches but Kasirga has a much bigger range I believe almost double
as it is a more advanced version than the ones Turkey uses
 
Baykuş;4478471 said:
The redundancy of every type of vehicle/system is what makes it hard, let alone the wide arsenal.
Example:

BM-30, Lynx and Extra - 3 different MRLS, all capable of firing the very same caliber of rockets.
They got 2 more cases [towed and self-propelled artillery systems] where multiple - from each other different - systems fills the very same role and function. Not to mention their wide arsenal of small arms [e.g. PKM, IMI Negev and M60].

One thing I might have not thought about is that they probably still are in the post-Soviet phase where they keep replacing obsolete weaponry with newer and more modern ones. Many of their heavier systems [artillery, mortars, IFVs, etc] probably are yet to get replaced/modernized.

1) as you noted, the modernization of the army is certainly a big factor. In the past 3 years alone Azerbaijan seems to have completely modernized (as in replacing old with brand new) at least 50% of its land forces and airforce. For example, in the latest purchase of 94 brand-new tanks, with an option to buy another 94, Azerbaijan modernized anywhere from 43% to 85% of its allowed tank quota under the CFE Treaty (220 main battle tanks).

And yes, since it is now in the 3rd phase of NATO IPAP partnership program, it is very slowly modernizing its armed forces and bringing them more in line with NATO standards (although it's very much debatable whether NATO standards are better than Soviet when it comes to war fighting, but certainly, NATO standards are better for peace time, rear supply and logistics, human/soldier rights, etc.).

2) at the same time, since 4 out of 5 Army Corps are based on conscripts, who serve for only 1-1.5 years, they need "toys" to play with - older arms are better positioned for that than risking newer weapons systems on draftees. All new weapons are operated only by professionals who signed contracts.

3) being in the situation it is, and having the relatively small size it has, Azerbaijan needs to get as many weapons as it can while it can - because during the war it either won't be able to get much or prices would triple. Right now almost everybody is knocking on Azerbaijani doors and windows, trying to sell weapons, as they know it has billions every year to spend on arms procurement. In a way, it is security of supply and hedging bets - if Russians stop selling rockets, missiles and grenades, Azerbaijan can get them from Israel. Or a multitude of other suppliers. And still have some expertise and specialists on how to operate and maintain that equipment.

4) Armenia, the aggressor-country and chief antagonist, also has a very wide variety of weapons systems that it is procuring as do other countries in the region. Basically, they have to go through many different types of weapons systems to try them, to test them, to decide which one's make most sense for them, and also to develop their domestic industry.

5) different weapons systems can serve different purposes, not only militarily speaking but logistically. For example, Turkish-procured weapons are perfect for Naxcivan, whilst Russian weapons for the "mainland" Azerbaijan.
 
by the number of equipment Azerbaijan has ,it has about 2 to 3 times more equipment than allowed by the CFE treaty
 
just BM-21
Azerbaijan bought a new batch of Smerches but Kasirga has a much bigger range I believe almost double
as it is a more advanced version than the ones Turkey uses

Indeed, Azerbaijan gets newer and better Kasirga T-300's than even what the Turkish Army currently has - see Jane's report on that: janes.com/article/12882/roketsan-offers-new-mrl-system

However, it's highly doubtful that T-300 Kasirga are better than or even equal to Smerch-M BM-30. For starters, SMERCH-M has about 22 different rockets that could be chosen (e.g., 9M55K - Cluster munition, anti-personnel; 9M55K1 - Cluster munition, self guided anti-tank; 9M55K4 - Cluster munition, AT minelets; 9M55K5 - HEAT/HE-Fragmentation; 9M55F - separable HE-Fragmentation; 9M55C - Thermobaric; 9M528 - HE-Fragmentation, 9М534 - with a UAV, and many more), vs. Kasirga that seems to have only one or two.

Secondly, the SMERCH's that Azerbaijan has (which are SMERCH-M with a range of up to 90 km, thus improved on classical SMERCH which has a range of 70 km. Keep in mind that the new SMERCH [3rd generation] that Russia started to recently export carry only 6 rockets, thus reducing the weight by 50% and making them acceptable for European and other customers who care about their roads that can't take nearly 47 tons of weight) can carry and fire up to 12 rockets at once vs. only 4 by Kasirga.

That means Azerbaijan needs to have more drivers/crew during war, and attract more attention (e.g., Azerbaijan's 30 SMERCH systems can fire 360 rockets at once - to achieve the same equivalency from Kasirga it would require Azerbaijan to have 90 T-300's, with 90 drivers instead of 30). Do you think Armenians would have easier time to spot 90 vehicles or 30 vehicles moving closer to the frontline? More importantly, with all the other MLRS/rocket/missiles systems, tanks, APCs and artillery, Azerbaijan would need an ARMY of drivers in addition to an army of soldiers-fighters. That's definitely not a good situation.

Thirdly, we know little about the precision of the new Kasirga, which is untested and never been used in any wars. Here's its official page: roketsan.com.tr/en/urunler-hizmetler/kara-sistemleri/satihtan-satiha-roket-sistemleri/t-300-cnra-300-mm-cok-namlulu-roketatar/

I would be very surprised if Armenians have not yet learned how to at least try to disrupt GPS in the war theater (Kasirga uses GPS). Russians might have supplied them such technology (e.g., system AVTOBAZA). Not to mention that GPS can't be very precise in forested, mountainous area (neither can laser, or thermal, but a combination is needed to improve accuracy). But we do know that SMERCH is very precise, which is exactly what makes it so lethal and so awesome.

Smerch is very precise - at 70 km., it has a circular error probability (radius of error) of just 0.21% or 150 meters. The old Kasirga T-300 had a CEP (Circular Error Probable) of ~1% of range - which at 100km would mean 1,000 meters or one kilometer! This is the Achilles heel of all these MLRS systems that are SMERCH wanna-be's: they increase the range and do all kinds of other modifications, but their accuracy rarely equals, yet alone surpasses, that of SMERCH.

Fourth, keep in mind that Kasirga is a Turkish version, improved and all, of the Chinese WS-1B - which in itself was a Chinese reverse-engineering (rip-off) of Soviet SMERCH. Thus, despite being designed in the 1980s, both Turkey and China are still trying to equal SMERCH.

Finally, keep in mind that just one SMERCH with 12 standard 9M55K Cluster munition/anti-personnel rockets covers 40 hectares of land (which is about 99 acres of land, or 400 dönüm's of land to make it easier to understand for Turkish forum members). That's over 672,000 sq. meters of land!

Just 3 SMERCH systems with 12 rockets each are equivalent in their effectiveness to 2 brigades of 9K79 TOCHKA-U (which both Armenia and Azerbaijan possess). As a note, in the Soviet army, one rocket brigade had either 2 or 3 divisions, and each division could have 2 to 3 battery's with 2 to 3 TOCHKA-U's. Thus, each Soviet brigade could have anywhere from 12 to 18 TOCHKA-U, and thus 3 SMERCH systems are as lethal as 24 to 36 TOCHKA-U's (although SMERCH's range is a maximum of 90km, whilst TOCHKA-U is 120km, but one SMERCH's rocket - 9М542 - has increased its range to 120km).

Thus, while the latest modification of Kasirga might indeed be more lethal, more accurate, and longer-range than older Kasirga or older (first generation) SMERCH - let's hope so for Azerbaijan's sake - it would still be just 4 rockets vs. 12 in SMERCH. And it's doubtful that the new Kasirga could improve its accuracy to 0,21% CEP, or get a whopping 22 types of missiles to chose from, although Turkey did implement GPS/INS guidance for latest Yildirim's and supposedly improved CEP to around 50 meters (although that needs to be verified).

In any case, Azerbaijan seems to need all the firepower it can get in order to liberate its lands, and even if Kasirga's (or Kasirga-G's) are not very accurate, they are still needed to aim at centers of Armenian army such as at their bases and fortified areas.
 
Many thanks for your clarification, @gr8vision! Much appreciated and very interesting to read. Azerbaijan's wide arsenal makes much more sense to me now.
:cheers:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Indeed, Azerbaijan gets newer and better Kasirga T-300's than even what the Turkish Army currently has - see Jane's report on that: janes.com/article/12882/roketsan-offers-new-mrl-system

However, it's highly doubtful that T-300 Kasirga are better than or even equal to Smerch-M BM-30. For starters, SMERCH-M has about 22 different rockets that could be chosen (e.g., 9M55K - Cluster munition, anti-personnel; 9M55K1 - Cluster munition, self guided anti-tank; 9M55K4 - Cluster munition, AT minelets; 9M55K5 - HEAT/HE-Fragmentation; 9M55F - separable HE-Fragmentation; 9M55C - Thermobaric; 9M528 - HE-Fragmentation, 9М534 - with a UAV, and many more), vs. Kasirga that seems to have only one or two.

Secondly, the SMERCH's that Azerbaijan has (which are SMERCH-M with a range of up to 90 km, thus improved on classical SMERCH which has a range of 70 km. Keep in mind that the new SMERCH [3rd generation] that Russia started to recently export carry only 6 rockets, thus reducing the weight by 50% and making them acceptable for European and other customers who care about their roads that can't take nearly 47 tons of weight) can carry and fire up to 12 rockets at once vs. only 4 by Kasirga.

That means Azerbaijan needs to have more drivers/crew during war, and attract more attention (e.g., Azerbaijan's 30 SMERCH systems can fire 360 rockets at once - to achieve the same equivalency from Kasirga it would require Azerbaijan to have 90 T-300's, with 90 drivers instead of 30). Do you think Armenians would have easier time to spot 90 vehicles or 30 vehicles moving closer to the frontline? More importantly, with all the other MLRS/rocket/missiles systems, tanks, APCs and artillery, Azerbaijan would need an ARMY of drivers in addition to an army of soldiers-fighters. That's definitely not a good situation.

Thirdly, we know little about the precision of the new Kasirga, which is untested and never been used in any wars. Here's its official page: roketsan.com.tr/en/urunler-hizmetler/kara-sistemleri/satihtan-satiha-roket-sistemleri/t-300-cnra-300-mm-cok-namlulu-roketatar/

I would be very surprised if Armenians have not yet learned how to at least try to disrupt GPS in the war theater (Kasirga uses GPS). Russians might have supplied them such technology (e.g., system AVTOBAZA). Not to mention that GPS can't be very precise in forested, mountainous area (neither can laser, or thermal, but a combination is needed to improve accuracy). But we do know that SMERCH is very precise, which is exactly what makes it so lethal and so awesome.

Smerch is very precise - at 70 km., it has a circular error probability (radius of error) of just 0.21% or 150 meters. The old Kasirga T-300 had a CEP (Circular Error Probable) of ~1% of range - which at 100km would mean 1,000 meters or one kilometer! This is the Achilles heel of all these MLRS systems that are SMERCH wanna-be's: they increase the range and do all kinds of other modifications, but their accuracy rarely equals, yet alone surpasses, that of SMERCH.

Fourth, keep in mind that Kasirga is a Turkish version, improved and all, of the Chinese WS-1B - which in itself was a Chinese reverse-engineering (rip-off) of Soviet SMERCH. Thus, despite being designed in the 1980s, both Turkey and China are still trying to equal SMERCH.

Finally, keep in mind that just one SMERCH with 12 standard 9M55K Cluster munition/anti-personnel rockets covers 40 hectares of land (which is about 99 acres of land, or 400 dönüm's of land to make it easier to understand for Turkish forum members). That's over 672,000 sq. meters of land!

Just 3 SMERCH systems with 12 rockets each are equivalent in their effectiveness to 2 brigades of 9K79 TOCHKA-U (which both Armenia and Azerbaijan possess). As a note, in the Soviet army, one rocket brigade had either 2 or 3 divisions, and each division could have 2 to 3 battery's with 2 to 3 TOCHKA-U's. Thus, each Soviet brigade could have anywhere from 12 to 18 TOCHKA-U, and thus 3 SMERCH systems are as lethal as 24 to 36 TOCHKA-U's (although SMERCH's range is a maximum of 90km, whilst TOCHKA-U is 120km, but one SMERCH's rocket - 9М542 - has increased its range to 120km).

Thus, while the latest modification of Kasirga might indeed be more lethal, more accurate, and longer-range than older Kasirga or older (first generation) SMERCH - let's hope so for Azerbaijan's sake - it would still be just 4 rockets vs. 12 in SMERCH. And it's doubtful that the new Kasirga could improve its accuracy to 0,21% CEP, or get a whopping 22 types of missiles to chose from, although Turkey did implement GPS/INS guidance for latest Yildirim's and supposedly improved CEP to around 50 meters (although that needs to be verified).

In any case, Azerbaijan seems to need all the firepower it can get in order to liberate its lands, and even if Kasirga's (or Kasirga-G's) are not very accurate, they are still needed to aim at centers of Armenian army such as at their bases and fortified areas.

I believe Azerbaijan is mainly looking for T-122 as a replacement for BM-21 and rockets would be produced in Azerbaijan
and since they are modular they can be very quickly equipped with Kasirga rockets during war situations and quickly switched to 122mm ammunition when needed same with the Lynx about 50 vehicles were bought in 2008 and I believe more were bought
can be quickly changed from 122mm to 160mm to 300mm rockets
Smerch is a very powerfull system and ll use the words of an armenian as he describes it the atomic bomb of our region =)
btw Azerbaijan has 36 Smerches
18 were bought from Ukraine and another 18 were bought from Russia
 
I think our Turkic brothers from. Azerbaycan should look to improve their air force, although they are sanctioned by Europe and USA they could look to buy some jf17. Currently our only choice is to wait until Armenia makes a mistake and fires the first flame to anhiliate it.
 
TPjBakP.jpg


14tvapy.jpg
 
I think our Turkic brothers from. Azerbaycan should look to improve their air force, although they are sanctioned by Europe and USA they could look to buy some jf17. Currently our only choice is to wait until Armenia makes a mistake and fires the first flame to anhiliate it.

In such a small war theater, airforce is not that important - except helicopters. Azerbaijan has been doing the right thing, where it bought modernized MiG-29's for prestige and image, and stopped at that (although it also seems to have bought one strategic bomber Tu-95, which is designed to carry nuclear bombs, and only 3-4 countries in the world have such types of mega-bombers). Most of Azerbaijan's airforce would probably be destroyed by Armenian warheads in the first days of the war - it's too hard to hide them off-the-limits from the Armenian (and Russian) radars, as well as Tochka-U's, SCUDs and WM-80's in a small country like Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan's military planners - no doubt with advice from Turkish generals and advisers - put full emphasis on getting overwhelming superiority in long-range artillery, MLRS and missiles, as well as more versatile helicopters that can be landing anywhere, don't need airports, and can fly in the mountains and forests better, while carrying special forces deep behind enemy lines.

The combat-unproven JF-17 sound not so bad, and would give Azerbaijan greater independence from Soviet/Russian weapons. At the same time, the best jets for the wars in the Caucasus are Su-24/Su-34, and that's what Azerbaijan really needs. These are light bombers, which are more useful than fighter jets against a country like Armenia that at this time doesn't have much to show for in terms of airforce (but will next year per recent Russian promises to fully modernize their airforce - including giving them brand-new Mi-35M helicopters and unspecified number of jets).
 
I believe Azerbaijan is mainly looking for T-122 as a replacement for BM-21 and rockets would be produced in Azerbaijan
and since they are modular they can be very quickly equipped with Kasirga rockets during war situations and quickly switched to 122mm ammunition when needed same with the Lynx about 50 vehicles were bought in 2008 and I believe more were bought
can be quickly changed from 122mm to 160mm to 300mm rockets
Smerch is a very powerfull system and ll use the words of an armenian as he describes it the atomic bomb of our region =)
btw Azerbaijan has 36 Smerches
18 were bought from Ukraine and another 18 were bought from Russia

It's true - the prevailing media reports about Azerbaijan purchasing only 12 (instead of 18) SMERCH from Ukraine were incorrect. So it does have 36 SMERCH - second only to Russia it seems. By the way, a full firing of SMERCH's 12 missiles costs about $1.68 million according to Jane's Defense Weekly. So just one full round of firing of Azerbaijani SMERCH would set it back by a cool $60 million USD. Precision costs a lot - and when the enemy is indeed trembling from the knowledge that Azerbaijan has this mighty weapon, who cares about money at that stage? :-)
 
Azerbaijan's military planners - no doubt with advice from Turkish generals and advisers - put full emphasis on getting overwhelming superiority in long-range artillery, MLRS and missiles, as well as more versatile helicopters that can be landing anywhere, don't need airports, and can fly in the mountains and forests better, while carrying special forces deep behind enemy lines.

The combat-unproven JF-17 sound not so bad, and would give Azerbaijan greater independence from Soviet/Russian weapons. At the same time, the best jets for the wars in the Caucasus are Su-24/Su-34, and that's what Azerbaijan really needs. These are light bombers, which are more useful than fighter jets against a country like Armenia that at this time doesn't have much to show for in terms of airforce (but will next year per recent Russian promises to fully modernize their airforce - including giving them brand-new Mi-35M helicopters and unspecified number of jets).

agree
Azerbaijan has bought a lot of helicopters lately about a hundred MI-17 and 36 Mi-35M just for Border Guards
36 modern attack helicopters and each one can carry 16 ATGM missile
I believe new attack helicopters will also be bought for Air force but 60 MI-24s are getting upgraded to MK4 standards
we have Su-24 but they should be replaced by SU-34
Su-34 proved itself against modern SAM systems such as Spider
with jamming the system and destroying the systems
as for the artillery force no doubt for a country the size of the Azerbaijan , we got a very impressive artillery force
almost all our rocket launchers are brand new or recently upgraded
same with SPGs Azerbaijan has ordered 18 MSTA-S ,18 Venas and 36 Firtina with an option to double the order
I am not even talking about other ground units , Armenia has no chance against Azerbaijan
they are just lucky they got Russia to protect or you would of seen Azerbaijan's flag over Yerevan long ago
 
turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=385352

Turkey delivers mobile hospitals to Azerbaijan

A Turkish company delivered two mobile hospitals to Azerbaijan's Ministry of Defense
ANKARA - A Turkish manufacturer delivered two mobile hospital units to Azerbaijan's Ministry of Defense.
Hospitals are to serve during disasters and other emergency situations with intense care, trauma and surgery units.
Speaking to the Anadolu Agency, an official from the manufacturer company said they have previously delivered 4 mobile hospitals to Darfur region of Sudan, Mali, and Ivory Coast.
"We won the bid among other international companies and delivered two mobile hospitals in less than 10 months," the official said.
Convenient for the climate of Azerbaijan, the hospitals include 44 beds, 8 of which are for intense care, as well as all the other units needed in a hospital, even a pharmacy and a morgue.
The hospitals can be set up and start functioning in 3 hours only without the need for a crane and fork lift.
"The mobile hospitals are fitted with inflatable tents and can be set up in 3 hours with a group of 12-13 people," the company official said, adding they expected to produce more functional, economical, and technological hospitals for potential buyers overseas.

Thursday, June 27, 2013
 
According to the report the State Service of Ukraine on export controls in Azerbaijan in 2012 was delivered 14 multi-purpose tractors BTS-5B of SE "Lviv armored plant."

Versatile multi-purpose tractor BTS-5B is designed for technical support tank units and parts of the rescue, towing damaged vehicles, transportation of spare parts and tools.

Created BTS-5B at Lviv armored repair plant (BTRZ). BTRZ Lviv carrying out major repairs of tanks, tank trucks, engineering machinery, manufactures products for the national economy. Since the base of the plant mastered the repair and modernization of the 29 types of tanks and self-propelled guns, manufacturing 20 types of armored tracked vehicles for special purposes on the bases of the tanks.

In terms of features and equipment BTS-5B is similar to ARV-1. Unlike the latter, produced in factories using overhaul chassis of the T-72A admitted to overhaul.

By passing Azerbaijan, tractors BTS-5B delivered to Iraq and some African countries.
 

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