AVIC Presents FC-31 Stealth Fighter model to Pakistan Air Force Chief.

[Umair Nawaz]

I have simply stopped taking anything seriously even if it is coming from Air Chiefs' mouths. They mislead and give false hope to the nation. The fact is, PAF has no plans whatsoever, she never had. PAF has always done impulsive shopping and almost always in reaction to IAF and that is something I never agree with. With this mindset (it is no strategy) we play by the rules set by our enemy instead of forcing our enemy to play by the rules we set. Like we have been hearing the PAF is watching if and when IAF is going to induct Rafale... what did PAF learn from learning that IAF was inducting Rafale or not? Is this not the fact that almost every fighter including F-35 is on offer to IAF and she can very well afford those too? PAF has to make up her mind, whatever platform she choses, she has to begin assimilating them in numbers and soon. I have been hearing arguments that we do not want J-10bs because we'd like to see the similar tech in JF-17 Blk-III. Aerodynamically, two machines are totally different, in payload, also different. I just don't understand how JF-17 blk-III will prove a replacement of J-10b. Anyway, for me PAF is a lost case. We should just be happy with whatever we have and pray to Allah that PAF is not put to challenge otherwise results wont be much different than they were during Kargil conflict.

excellent post and thats what im thinking abt PAF.

@Windjammer why dont PAF lead the way like IDAF?

 

[MastanKhan]

it hurts me when Pak Faziya infest in chai wala fighter jets, the FC-31 got bad reviews in the last airshow in china, not a single deligation was at all impressed. the FC-31 isn't the future its a chaiwala fighter jet that uses outdated mig-29 engines, are you telling me this is the future? why not invest money in a proper 5th generation fighter jet instead of a pretend one.

Sir / ma'am,

Senior members on this board---as they have hardly spoken about issues on the board in such a long time----must refrain from making comments as such. A person can well hide their lack of knowledge by keeping quiet---like General Kiyani.

In today's age of technology----an engine is indeed extremely important----but if a potent engine is not available a good engine will do a job very well in our scenario.

The F22 will not lose its long distance strike capabilities if a less powerful engine was installed in it. It would still be as deadly a killing machine as before---its electronics capability will not be diminished----its stealth capabilities won't be diminished----the potency of its BVR missiles won't be diminished---. In the end---it will still do its primary job that it was designed to do---air supremacy from a distance---.

If you have the quality electronics and quality BVR and off bore sight WVR missiles---where lays the problem.

 

[syedali73]

I tend to agree with your thoughts, but the problem with PAF is that they don't have unlimited budget and to use that effectively, they base their buying decisions to counter what the enemy can/will throw at them. I think this gives an edge as PAF always buys specific equipment to counter the enemy's latest tech.

Budget is never unlimited but scarcity of money is usually managed by good planning, something that simply does not exist in PAF's dictionary. In Musharraf's time, there was money, and option too to buy Blk-52; what we did? Instead of 36, we bought only 18. Nation was fooled that money spent on Azad Kashmir Earth quake and PAF made great sacrifice; what a baloney, same reason was given for cancellation of other acquisitions. No, it does not work like this. Funds allocated to certain departments are not used up like this and I know it for my father served as a top bureaucrat with GoP. The fact is, other than handful of F-16s, we have nothing but practice drones for our enemy, no matter how PAF spins it. We have to induct at-least one squadron strength of Blk-52 or go for J-11 for these fighter are needed to maintain reasonable air-superiority, which will allow 2nd tier jets to fly and conduct missions. JF-17 even in its blk-III configuration is not going to be a game changer. With same old engine, only so much could be done to a fighter no matter you take the blk number to XX.

 

[Kabira]

You are saying:
50 billion dollars / fiscal cycle
Op Ex allocation : 62% - 31 Billion dollars for Mil budget
Total Capex Allocation: 19
Airforce Capex Budget: 30% - 5.7 Billion dollars/ year - 2020-22 That is pretty good But:



View attachment 197594
+ 2013-14 - $6.3 Billion
+ 2014-15 - $6.3 Billion


In last 15 years you went from 2 billion to 6.3 billion...
But in next 5 years you go from 6.3 Billion to 50 Billion dollars ... if your defination of fiscal cycle (1 budgetary year) is correct.

If you mean 10 Billion / year and 50 billion in 5 years... which is more likely...

then
10 billion / fiscal year
Op ex allocation : 62% - 6.2 Billion
Capex Total: 3.8 Billion
Air Force Capex: 30% : 1.14 Billion Dollars (in 2020)

Now tell me will that suffice for FC31, atleast half a squadron every year......

Pak defence budger 2014-15, $7 billion. For next year 2015-16 its $8.1 billion. By 2022 Pakistan budget will be between $18-20 billion. In worst case scenario $18 billion.

 

[boke]

站在巴基斯坦的立场上，我希望巴基斯坦朋友注意一个事实：巴基斯坦的空军力量相对印度来说比较薄弱，海军也一样但这里不讨论海军。从国防自力更生的角度看，巴基斯坦应该就JF17雷电的升级改进上进一步下功夫，提升其高科技含量。至于战机进口，这点来说巴基斯坦应该考虑国防成本，现在巴基斯坦空军主要用的是美制和中国制装备，在软硬件通用性上是不同的，就中国产武器装备来说，软件兼容集成上不成问题，那么就将国防需要和硬件的通用性多多考虑，这样才能最合理去决定到底选择进口哪款中国装备，不能仅仅看某款装备的先进程度！

 

[MastanKhan]

I tend to agree with your thoughts, but the problem with PAF is that they don't have unlimited budget and to use that effectively, they base their buying decisions to counter what the enemy can/will throw at them. I think this gives an edge as PAF always buys specific equipment to counter the enemy's latest tech.
QUOTE]

Hi,

When they had the money in 2002-2003-2004-2005---they still managed to screw thing over real bad. Things had not changed at all at paf.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

站在巴基斯坦的立场上，我希望巴基斯坦朋友注意一个事实：巴基斯坦的空军力量相对印度来说比较薄弱，海军也一样但这里不讨论海军。从国防自力更生的角度看，巴基斯坦应该就JF17雷电的升级改进上进一步下功夫，提升其高科技含量。至于战机进口，这点来说巴基斯坦应该考虑国防成本，现在巴基斯坦空军主要用的是美制和中国制装备，在软硬件通用性上是不同的，就中国产武器装备来说，软件兼容集成上不成问题，那么就将国防需要和硬件的通用性多多考虑，这样才能最合理去决定到底选择进口哪款中国装备，不能仅仅看某款装备的先进程度！

写在英语的哥们，所以我们都可以理解.

 

[TheNoob]

I like this Cool CGI - Bigger and Stealthy

Now look at this on real models

Are they same or differences compared to CGI?

J-31 look like very small than I thought, I hope engineers will re-design again and everything else.

The one they have for testing purpose is a prototype i think.
so design might get mature in future.

 

[Syed Hussain]

I have simply stopped taking anything seriously even if it is coming from Air Chiefs' mouths. They mislead and give false hope to the nation. The fact is, PAF has no plans whatsoever, she never had. PAF has always done impulsive shopping and almost always in reaction to IAF and that is something I never agree with. With this mindset (it is no strategy) we play by the rules set by our enemy instead of forcing our enemy to play by the rules we set. Like we have been hearing the PAF is watching if and when IAF is going to induct Rafale... what did PAF learn from learning that IAF was inducting Rafale or not? Is this not the fact that almost every fighter including F-35 is on offer to IAF and she can very well afford those too? PAF has to make up her mind, whatever platform she choses, she has to begin assimilating them in numbers and soon. I have been hearing arguments that we do not want J-10bs because we'd like to see the similar tech in JF-17 Blk-III. Aerodynamically, two machines are totally different, in payload, also different. I just don't understand how JF-17 blk-III will prove a replacement of J-10b. Anyway, for me PAF is a lost case. We should just be happy with whatever we have and pray to Allah that PAF is not put to challenge otherwise results wont be much different than they were during Kargil conflict.

Finally, some rational statements. And feel free to call the decision of going for JF-17 a total flop. For the only advantage it was supposed to give(comparing to an unquestionably 2 times potent J-10b) was it's very low price tag which is now long gone after block 2 price reaching 35 million per unit(because no mass production and it's costly even for China to just run the production line only for Pak). J-10b would have been available with no more than 40 to 45 million per unit because it's being produced in mass numbers by China so it's natural that the price would have been low and also because we would not have to pay any "developmental fee" like we paid in JF-17 case because It was made as "export only product", not for PLAAF itself.

 

[Transhumanist]

Sir, please see post#106. Internal weapons bay.

Not every weapon will fit in the internal bays though. Like the F-35, some larger strike weapons will need to be carried on the under-wing pylons - or targeting/ew pods and external tanks:

This is also true if you want to carry a full weapons load, since the internal bays are restricted in their size:

The FC-31 will have a similar problem, the answer is partially stealthy weapons pods:

 

[The_Sidewinder]

For us it will do even if its better than the best in the region.

It will certainly have a long way to go before becoming best in the region. Making a stealth looking plan which performs well in Airshows is easier than making one which actually works well in combat scenario. NATO has found out it in F35 project, Russians with PakFA. Thats what makes me skeptical about J31. I am not down playing the product, but I wont be convinced till it is fully operationalised & does well against other fifth generation adverseries in mock combats.

 

[mingle]

It will certainly have a long way to go before becoming best in the region. Making a stealth looking plan which performs well in Airshows is easier than making one which actually works well in combat scenario. NATO has found out it in F35 project, Russians with PakFA. Thats what makes me skeptical about J31. I am not down playing the product, but I wont be convinced till it is fully operationalised & does well against other fifth generation adverseries in mock combats.

Pak is involve in project end product will be good plus China spending a lot of money on R&d . much critics On F 35 in America too called white elephant fat turkey .

 

[shahzadaf]

Mr Li Yuhai Executive Vice President of AVIC presents FC-31 model visiting Pakistani CAS Air Marshal Suhail Aman.

@Rafi - @Windjammer - @Hyperion

View attachment 227260

Some cool images of the mock up and CGI.

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love the quote

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Pak is involve in project end product will be good plus China spending a lot of money on R&d . much critics On F 35 in America too called white elephant fat turkey .

Well well only time will tell.

 

[Echo_419]

That would put a lot of burden on the pilot and hence the case for twin seat version to be more effective.



For us it will do even if its better than the best in the region.



Don't worry, it would stay south of 50



1.14 billion times 5 years is 5.7 billion and if financing is available, then you don't need to pay the full amount upfront. if 5 year financing is available the amount swells to 11.4 billion, which should be enough to finance two squadrons.

He said 50 billion not 5
EDIT got it now

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

If the setup is good for the F 35---then it is also good for the J31----. Electronics package won't be an issue----5 years is a good time to have an updated and potent system ready for the aircraft-----.

When this aircraft came out last year----I stated that once Pakistan gives the go ahead----it is approximately 5 years time period from order to delivery.

Many a posters were skeptical and stated that china won't offer this aircraft to Pakistan and I mentioned---this aircraft was tailor made for Pakistan----.

I pissed off Jeff Head at sinodefence forum awhile ago----. The fool don't understand the relationship between china and Pakistan---he does not understand what role Pakistan can play.

South china seas issues have created some major issues---and in order for china to take care of those problems---china needs to cover its flank.