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AVIC Presents FC-31 Stealth Fighter model to Pakistan Air Force Chief.

Hi,

That is how it is---smaller larger and much larger-----so what is the difference between F16 and F15 and F 18---size and weight load----.

FC 20 is the Pakistani version of J 10 B and no the abilities of the JF and the FC 20 are not the same----.
Sir,
The concept that you have mentioned has been used for a very long time but now it is diminishing.
This is because the weapons are getting more powerful and a lower payload is enough for the same amount of destruction then let say 20yrs back. The amount of error of not hitting the intended target is also not existing with the latest precision guided weapons.

Currently the task that was being done by light and medium fighters can be done by one type. If a light fighter jet has the right kind of weapons then there is no requirement of medium ones. Still the requirements of a heavy exist. This can also be taken care of if the numbers are increased hence compromising on stealth attack.

It is known that PAF requires a heavy fighter but they can not afford it. If it was affordable then F-15's would have been in PAF a long time back.

Is FC-20 a heavy? No... Is is Stealth? ... No

Hi,

The only reason that the PAF will not go for the J10 b / FC 20 is that they plan to get more F16's----and there are no restrictions on the operation of F 16 under any circumstances.

If there were any holdbacks on the aircraft---J10 B have been inducted right away---.
Sir,
If there are no restriction on F-16's then why would PAF spend $4-5 Billion + training costs (time to get expertise) on a new platform like FC-20. They can just buy 3-4 more squadrons of F-16's directly from USA or some other European Country to give a boost to the capabilities without even wasting an iota.

Lets get a reality check on F-16's that are available are mostly with GE engines. Those aircraft with PW engines will not be available till the delivery of F-35's start some time in 2020-2022.

So why should PAF wait till 2020 for getting F-16's when by that time in the same $4-5 Billion they can get JF-31's in some what same numbers (3-4 Squadrons).
 
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2020-2022. By that time our defense budget will be in excess of 50 Billion dollars / fiscal cycle (5 year term). My guess is that PAF will seek 36 units to begin with ( 18X2 = 36 = 2 Squadrons ) then depending on its utility might place another order. The best news is that PAF plans to integrate Link-16 and Sensor Fusion developed for J-20 into our JF-17 fleet. In other words they are looking at across the board network centric capabilities backed by our AWACs, AESA ground radars and a multi layered SAM system we are slowly building up. PAF is not focusing on building huge numbers but on having up to 400 advanced jets which are fully capable of fighting as a swarm in a network centric warfare setting. To give you an example the best feature of JAS-39 Gripen-D aka Gripen NG is its netcentricity. A small formation of Gripen -NGs can communicate and share data with each other which allows them to fight as a team against a larger enemy force.

I think , as evident in the case of F35 / PAK FA , for PAF the matter of Funds comes secondary to the avilability of the Jets Itself.
We are talking about technologies that exist no where. Its 5th Generation. China needs to delvelop, test then induct the jets in its own Air Force.

2025-30 would be a realistic window.
 
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Sir,
The concept that you have mentioned has been used for a very long time but now it is diminishing.
This is because the weapons are getting more powerful and a lower payload is enough for the same amount of destruction then let say 20yrs back. The amount of error of not hitting the intended target is also not existing with the latest precision guided weapons.

Currently the task that was being done by light and medium fighters can be done by one type. If a light fighter jet has the right kind of weapons then there is no requirement of medium ones. Still the requirements of a heavy exist. This can also be taken care of if the numbers are increased hence compromising on stealth attack.

It is known that PAF requires a heavy fighter but they can not afford it. If it was affordable then F-15's would have been in PAF a long time back.

Is FC-20 a heavy? No... Is is Stealth? ... No


Sir,
If there are no restriction on F-16's then why would PAF spend $4-5 Billion + training costs (time to get expertise) on a new platform like FC-20. They can just buy 3-4 more squadrons of F-16's directly from USA or some other European Country to give a boost to the capabilities without even wasting an iota.

Lets get a reality check on F-16's that are available are mostly with GE engines. Those aircraft with PW engines will not be available till the delivery of F-35's start some time in 2020-2022.

So why should PAF wait till 2020 for getting F-16's when by that time in the same $4-5 Billion they can get JF-31's in some what same numbers (3-4 Squadrons).

Hi,

That concept has not diminished-----many of the B 52---yes B 52 bombers are going thru an upgrade--structural--engine----electronics upgrades----.

There is no such thing that a smart bomb is the solution to the problems----there is nothing as devastating as total destruction and annihilation of have 50000 lbs of destruction falling from the skies----.

And you have been mis---informed about that.

The cost on FC 20 wooul dbe half of that---because you have all the same weapons already in stock----the need for the FC 20 is its superiority due to aesa----a higher load capacity, longer time in the air and air superiority.

Pakistan needs a heavy aircraft with strike capabilities---like a JH 7 B----not expensive and can use all the weapons that are available now----a strike aircraft that will come with an aesa----strike capabilities and and can also launch BVR missiles----.

When yu are facing a navy like that of india----I would rather have a JH 7 B with 8 to 10 anti ship missiles on it than to have a JF 17 with only 2 anti ship missiles.

It is on the same principal here---families here in the U S have their cars for routine work----and for heavy work---we have personal trucks and large SUV's.

The problem here is that the frame of mind of the Pakistani has shrunk-----it is looking towards smaller things to drag larger jobs---like small motorcycles meant for 2 people are being loaded with 3--4 and 5---. Small cars meant for 4 and 5 are loaded with 6 and 7---.

That kind of mindset has creeped up in all departments of their lives----and now they believe that small is the best and small can do the job of the big and all kinds of excuses that the small is the in thing---.

The belief has become consuming that that my Chicken Little will kill your Master Blaster---and that is a fatal disease in itself----.
 
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Hi,

That concept has not diminished-----many of the B 52---yes B 52 bombers are going thru an upgrade--structural--engine----electronics upgrades----.

There is no such thing that a smart bomb is the solution to the problems----there is nothing as devastating as total destruction and annihilation of have 50000 lbs of destruction falling from the skies----.

And you have been mis---informed about that.

The cost on FC 20 wooul dbe half of that---because you have all the same weapons already in stock----the need for the FC 20 is its superiority due to aesa----a higher load capacity, longer time in the air and air superiority.

Pakistan needs a heavy aircraft with strike capabilities---like a JH 7 B----not expensive and can use all the weapons that are available now----a strike aircraft that will come with an aesa----strike capabilities and and can also launch BVR missiles----.

When yu are facing a navy like that of india----I would rather have a JH 7 B with 8 to 10 anti ship missiles on it than to have a JF 17 with only 2 anti ship missiles.

It is on the same principal here---families here in the U S have their cars for routine work----and for heavy work---we have personal trucks and large SUV's.

The problem here is that the frame of mind of the Pakistani has shrunk-----it is looking towards smaller things to drag larger jobs---like small motorcycles meant for 2 people are being loaded with 3--4 and 5---. Small cars meant for 4 and 5 are loaded with 6 and 7---.

That kind of mindset has creeped up in all departments of their lives----and now they believe that small is the best and small can do the job of the big and all kinds of excuses that the small is the in thing---.

The belief has become consuming that that my Chicken Little will kill your Master Blaster---and that is a fatal disease in itself----.
This a very good argument of saying a 70 year old aircraft will be fit to fly for an other 30 yrs.

Sir, USA has the technology to reduce the rcs of any type of aircraft by changing the transponders...This has been don in the past and is being used by the B-52's but no other country has this kind of expertise so far.

Even though USA had the F-117's but they were shot out by Sadam Hussain's army during the Gulf War. The reason given behind this was the Iraqi's could visually identify them with their eyes not by sophisticated radars. The idea is to identify before taking a shot.
 
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This a very good argument of saying a 70 year old aircraft will be fit to fly for an other 30 yrs.

Sir, USA has the technology to reduce the rcs of any type of aircraft by changing the transponders...This has been don in the past and is being used by the B-52's but no other country has this kind of expertise so far.

Even though USA had the F-117's but they were shot out by Sadam Hussain's army during the Gulf War. The reason given behind this was the Iraqi's could visually identify them with their eyes not by sophisticated radars. The idea is to identify before taking a shot.

Hi,

I don't make arguments----. I am talking abut standard operating procedures---you don't go to battle with enemy twice your size with light weapons----.

For the size of indian army we face---the JF 17 and F 16 are chicken shit aircraft when it comes to weapons load-----.

Paf is a totally fckd up organization----it has been hijacked by fighter mafia for a long time----. It needs a defense minister who knows what is needed----buys it and tells the air force here it is now go an operate----.
 
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@MastanKhan

Sir JH 7 B is INFERIOR to Indian Navy's Mig 29 K

Indian Navy already has 45 Mig 29 K ; we can get more

Or we can get 40 Su 30 MKI exclusively for Naval Strike roles

Basically India just negates anything that Pakistan buys to Maintain the GAP
between our two countries

That is why PAF and PN dont even try to close the GAP

The defence budget of India is SIX times bigger and hence the GAP in
capabilities
 
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Hello guys,

Firstly,congratulations are in oder for the 1st export deal of the JF-17. :enjoy:

Secondly, joint work by PAK and CHN on JF-17 Block III is proceeding according to plan.:-)

Last but not the least,the 1st prototype of FC-31 is expected in H1 2016, i.e. after 8-12 months.:azn:
 
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Hello guys,

Firstly,congratulations are in oder for the 1st export deal of the JF-17. :enjoy:

Secondly, joint work by PAK and CHN on JF-17 Block III is proceeding according to plan.:-)

Last but not the least,the 1st prototype of FC-31 is expected in H1 2016, i.e. after 8-12 months.:azn:
Hi @cirr
Is FC-31 an export designation or is it going to be Pakistan specific variant like FC-20?
 
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Sir JH 7 B is INFERIOR to Indian Navy's Mig 29 K

The JH-7B and MiG-29K are completely different platforms, slated for different missions, and there is nothing to suggest that one is "inferior" to another.

Last but not the least,the 1st prototype of FC-31 is expected in H1 2016, i.e. after 8-12 months.:azn:

Well, isn't that a shame; earlier estimates were 2015.
 
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The JH-7B and MiG-29K are completely different platforms, slated for different missions, and there is nothing to suggest that one is "inferior" to another.

Well, isn't that a shame; earlier estimates were 2015.

Hi,

That poster thinks that by talking clever he would sound like he knows everything----. His post was on the verge of being brainless.

JH7B is going to be an extremely potent strike platform----with its aesa radar---carrying capacity of 8 anti ship missiles----with BVR missile launch capability----it can very easily fill in the role of a strike aircraft in Pakistan air force or for the navy----.
 
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The mighty chinease will not give up their cutting edge weapons unless Pakistan pays hard cash.

PAF needs 100+ FC20 but has no means to fund a $4.5 billion dollars programme like this ..

The chinease built for you a cheaper more cost effective programme in JFT costing under $2 billion for 100 fighters.

Why do people like you even care to post on here? These posts are silly and stupid to be honest. From the bold crap written above, here are the answers:

1) China has offered Pakistan everything outside of the J-20 and the SU models it built under Russian licenses. J-20 isn't Pakistan's needs and giving Pakistan the SU series, would violate Russian licenses. But he FC-20, FC-31 are ALL offered to Pakistan.

2) The PAF doesn't need 100 FC-20's. They'll would get the FC-31 instead and will by pass the J-20 all together. 60-100 FC-31 would result in some SERIOUS problems on India's end. She'd never be able to fully counter or put air superiority over Pakistani skies. You can't shoot what you can't see.

3) A cheaper and cost effective program would STILL have the same BVR capability (or 90% of it), compared to 3 times costly Indian Mirage 2000's, or the Pakistani F-16's. So good for them that they found a cheaper way to do it. The missile has a seeker built on Agat's tech, which is what's used in ALL Indian BVR missiles of Russian origin (which is 80% of the IAF). So ..cheaper or more expensive, it can take down a SU-30 from 50-60 miles away. That's some punch right there.
 
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Hi,

That poster thinks that by talking clever he would sound like he knows everything----. His post was on the verge of being brainless.

JH7B is going to be an extremely potent strike platform----with its aesa radar---carrying capacity of 8 anti ship missiles----with BVR missile launch capability----it can very easily fill in the role of a strike aircraft in Pakistan air force or for the navy----.

Well, everybody benefits from a bit of moderation.

The JH-7B actually does not have AESA. It is an upgraded variant of the JH-7A with more composites, upgraded electronics, provisions for the YJ-12 missile, more powerful engines, and possibly IFR.
 
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Well, everybody benefits from a bit of moderation.

The JH-7B actually does not have AESA. It is an upgraded variant of the JH-7A with more composites, upgraded electronics, provisions for the YJ-12 missile, more powerful engines, and possibly IFR.


Hi,

Thank you for your post---. Supposedly the JH7B is not ready yet---the upgraded aircraft should be coming out this year.

Here is a link to 'someone's' post from awhile ago. Aesa is right at the top of the list---but even if it is not available---still it is an extremely potent strike platform---specially for naval missions.

JH-7B STEALTH STRIKE FIGHTER (new development)
 
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Hi,

Thank you for your post---. Supposedly the JH7B is not ready yet---the upgraded aircraft should be coming out this year.

Here is a link to 'someone's' post from awhile ago. Aesa is right at the top of the list---but even if it is not available---still it is an extremely potent strike platform---specially for naval missions.

JH-7B STEALTH STRIKE FIGHTER (new development)

No problem, buddy.

There were two concepts for the JH-7B: a conservative one that involved modest avionics, structural, engine, and electronics upgrades, and an ambitious one that involved redesigning the entire airframe with RCS reduction in mind. The former was selected to go into development and production, probably to siphon more funds towards the 5G programs.
 
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