Autonomy Under Indian Constitution: An Old Pragmatic Approach To Kashmir or a Recipe for Disaster?

[pakdefender]

Indian occupied Kashmir is under marshal law for the last 26 years

AFSPA - Armed Forces Special Powers Act is essentially marshal law

 

[M. Sarmad]

Indian occupied Kashmir is under marshal law for the last 26 years

AFSPA - Armed Forces Special Powers Act is essentially marshal law

Essentially, AFSPA encourages Indian soldiers to counter insurgency by ripping apart the social fabric of the separatist region through civilian killings, illegal detainment, mass rape, torture, solitary confinement, and various other forms of human rights violations. AFSPA gives soldiers complete and utter impunity on the field. The idea isn’t to simply cleanse the valley of Pakistani militants, but to demoralize the entire community that supports these insurgents.

No wonder the British government used this same law on "Gandhi’s" independence movement ....




And it's not just AFSPA. The Indian troops deployed in Indian Occupied Kashmir operate under a host of draconian laws, specific to Kashmir, which have made these forces take on the role of an occupying army. They have been given a free hand to play havoc with the life, honour and property of the hapless Kashmiris.


DRACONIAN LAWS Enforced in Indian Occupied Kashmir


JAMMU & KASHMIR PUBLIC SAFETY ACT, 1978

The Act promulgated in 1978 (amended in 1987 and 1990) empowers the State government to detain a person without trial for two years under the pretext of maintenance of public order. The Act fell short of the recognized norms of justice, such as equality before law, the right of the accused of appearance before a Magistrate within 24 hours of arrest, fair trial in public, access to counsel, cross examination of the witnesses, appeal against conviction, protection from being tried under retrospective application of law, etc. Even the provisions of the Act, though already unsatisfactory, have been consistently violated. The detainees are not informed of the reasons of their arrest and they are kept in custody for a much longer period of time than stipulated in the Act. They are not allowed to meet their relatives and counsels. The amendment of 1990 extended its operation beyond the State, enabling the State machinery to keep the detainees in the jails of India, outside the State. Under Section 22 of the Act, any legal proceeding against officials for acts “done in good faith” are also disallowed.

The law has been widely used against the innocent Kashmiris as well as political opponents. Thousands of people have over the years been detained under the Act.



JAMMU & KASHMIR DISTURBED AREAS ACT, 1990

Under the Act, the whole or part of the State can be declared disturbed area by the Central Government or the Governor. The whole valley of Kashmir and two Districts of Jammu have since been declared disturbed areas. An official of the level of Head Constable is allowed to use force or shoot (and kill) under the pretext of maintaining the public order. The Act gives the police extraordinary powers of arrest and detention. It provided a cover to the state machinery for indiscriminate and unprovoked firing at peaceful and unarmed demonstrations, extra judicial killings and destroying the property of Kashmiris on suspicion. Moreover, Section 6 gives legal immunity to persons acting under this Act; no suit or prosecution can be instituted, except with the previous sanction of the government against any person in respect of anything done or purported to be done in exercise of the powers conferred by the Act.


TERRORIST AND DISRUPTIVE ACTIVITIES ACT (TADA) 1990

The Act enforced in 1985 (amended in 1987) gives security forces and armed forces special powers for use of force, especially the amendment of 1987 made it tougher. It was widely used for unauthorized administrative detention without formal charges or trial for upto one year. Under the Act, involvement in, or preparation for, disruptive activities attracts sever punishment upto life imprisonment. Arrests can be made even on suspicion of committing “disruptive activities”, broadly defined as “any action taken, whether by act by speech or through any other media ….. which questions, disrupts or is intended to disrupt, whether directly or indirectly, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of India, or which is intended to bring about or support any claim…… for the cession of any part of India from the Union……”

Since the law gives special powers to the security forces in the use of force, arrest and detention, it was extensively used in the occupied Kashmir. Even after lapse of the Act in 1995, the cases are filed under this Act, which provides that it may be applied to preceding trials in various courts and to persons, who may be tried in connection with the offences alleged to have been committed prior to 1995. The regime of the occupied Kashmir acknowledged that it held 772 persons under the TADA. Still many more are in Indian jails, outside the State.

This law also fails to meet the international standard of fundamental principles of justice, which requires that the detainees should have a fair and prompt trial and they should be informed of the reasons of arrest. The defence counsel is not permitted to see witnesses for the prosecution, who are kept behind screen while testifying in court. Besides, confessions extracted under duress are permitted as evidence.



THE ARMED FORCES (JAMMU & KASHMIR) SPECIAL POWERS ACT, 1990

The Armed Forces (Jammu & Kashmir) Special Powers Ordinance, introduced in July, 1990, was later enacted by the Parliament of India and enforced on 10th September, 1990. When certain areas are declared to be “disturbed”, the army and paramilitary forces are granted sweeping powers under Section 4 (C) of this Act.

The armed forces can be used in aid of civil authorities and even a non commissioned officer can search any place, stop/seize any vehicle, fire at any person (and kill), or arrest him even on the basis of suspicion with no obligation to inform him of the grounds thereof. It gives the Indian security forces sweeping powers that facilitate arbitrary arrests and detention and extra judicial executions as well as destruction of property.

The provisions of the black law are further violated in the occupied Kashmir by the security forces. Under the law, an arrested person is to be handed over to the nearest police station. But it is seldom done. Besides, the armed forces personnel are supposed to act as and when requested by the civilian authorities. In other words, the former should work under the direction of the latter. However, factually the security forces are inflicting atrocities on the Kashmiris without informing the civil administration. The State government has proved ineffective in controlling the Indian security forces, who have unleashed a reign of terror in occupied territory. The Act legitimizes barbarism in the State, as under Section 7, the security forces are given an immunity from prosecution for any act committed by them.



PREVENTION OF TERRORISM ACT (POTA), 2002

The Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance (POTA), promulgated on 25th October, 2001 was initially rejected by the Upper House, when presented for enactment. However, it was passed at the joint session of the Indian Parliament on March 26, 2002. Though the law was for the whole country, its main focus was occupied Kashmir.

POTA equipped the Indian forces with extra ordinary powers. Under the law, any act committed with a lethal weapon was termed terrorist act. The offences included even inviting support for an alleged “terrorist organisation”, addressing a gathering of sympathizers (of a terrorist organisation) and arranging, helping or assisting to arrange a meeting in which support for any “terrorist organisation” or its activities is expressed. The properties of the alleged terrorists, terrorist organisations and their sympathies would be seized. The suspects could be detained for 3 months without framing charges against them and for another 3 months, if allowed by a special Judge.

The Government officials admitted that excesses had regularly been committed. A long list of illegal arrests and unlawful killings has been documented by the human rights organisations. This black law was used mainly in occupied Kashmir. Ninety Nine point nine percent arrested under this Act were Muslims. Owing to strong protests and denunciation from the world leaders and organisations, the Act has now been withdrawn.



UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) AMENDMENT ORDINANCE 2004

The Ordinance was passed by the Indian President in 2004 and was implemented forthwith. It has since been promulgated as Act. It again provides extraordinary powers to armed forces and other law enforcement agencies, similar to those previously provided by the POTA.

In addition to the above-mentioned measures, the laws and ordinances regarding other disturbed parts of India can also be applied in occupied Kashmir.



THE NATIONAL SECURITY ACT (NSA)

> Under the NSA, a person can be detained without charge or trial for upto one year to prevent him from acting in a manner prejudicial to state security, the maintenance of public order or relations with a foreign power.



OFFICIAL SECRETS ACT (OSA)

Under the Official Secrets Act (OSA), the Government may restrict publication of sensitive stories. But the Government interprets this broadly to suppress criticism of its policies.



NEWSPAPERS INCITEMENTS TO OFFENCES ACT

The Newspapers Incitements to Offences Act, 1971 remains in effect in Jammu and Kashmir. Under the Act, a District Magistrate may prohibit the publishing of material resulting in “incitement to murder” or “any act of violence”.


CRIMINAL PROCEDURE CODE

The Criminal Procedure Code provides for an open trial in most cases, but it allows exceptions in proceedings involving official secret trials in which statements prejudicial to the safety of the State might be made, or under provisions of special security legislation. The authorities enjoy special powers to search and arrest without a warrant. If required, the public assemblies can be banned and a curfew can also be imposed.




INDIAN TELEGRAPH ACT

The Indian Telegraph Act authorizes the surveillance of communications, including monitoring telephone conversations and intercepting personal mail, in case of public emergency or “in the interest of the public safety or tranquility”.

Besides the afore mentioned draconian laws, the following are also in force:-


Enemy Agent Ordinance 1948

The Egress and Internal Movement (Control) Ordinance, 1948

Prevention of Unlawful Activities, 1963

Prevention of Subversion and Sabotage Act, 1965



WORLD OPINION

The TADA gives a license to kill. (Amnesty International)

The powers of the TADA and the Armed Forces Special Power Act are incompatible with the state obligation to uphold and protect human rights, in particular the right to life. (UN Human Rights Committee)

Wide powers of arrest granted under TADA, combined with the absence of fundamental legal safeguards for detainees, create a climate, which encourages abuse of power and facilitates illegal and secret detention. (Amnesty International)

The TADA has come to represent a blatant and wide spread violation of civil rights. (Daily The Indian Express)

This organisation has not come to know of a single case of disappearance in Indian Held Kashmir in which the perpetrators have been brought to justice. (Amnesty International)

Thousand of allegations of torture and deaths in custody have been reported in Jammu & Kashmir since early 1990. (Amnesty International Report, 1995)

“Access to redress for victims of human rights violations, a right guaranteed under international law, is being denied to victims in Jammu & Kashmir”. (Amnesty International – May, 1997)

Thousands of political persons were detained without charge or trial under special legislations such as TADA, the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act and the Disturbed Areas Act, which lacked vital legal safeguards. (Amnesty International Report, 1997)

Many provisions of TADA contravene important international human rights standards, especially the right to liberty and security, to a fair trial, freedom of expression and the right not to be tortured. (Amnesty International)

India should release all detained Kashmiri leaders and political workers. The draconian law, the Public Safety Act should be annulled, if it cannot be so amended as to conform to the standard of protection of human rights. (Amnesty International – May, 2001)

The Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act violates provisions of International human rights law, including the right to life, the right to remedy and the rights to be free from arbitrary deprivation of liberty and from torture and cruel inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. (Amnesty International)

The continuance of a system characterized by extra ordinary law created to fight the insurgency, like the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, the Public Safety Act and the POTA, has “produced an environment of impunity and lawlessness”. A systematic pattern of abuse emerges – the Armed forces do not disclose, indeed they conceal their identity, no record is maintained of who is conducting the arrest. The Armed forces do not respond to summon from the courts even in habeas corpus petitions. The High Court of Jammu & Kashmir has been forced to close hundreds of cases without even finding what happened to disappeared persons for non cooperation of the Armed forces. (Tapan Bose – The Committee of Initiative on Kashmir)

The Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) continued to be used to detain political opponents and members of minority populations. The lapsed Terrorist and Disruptive Activities Act continued to be used to arrest people in Jammu and Kashmir by linking them to cases filed before 1995. Preventive arrest and detention provisions contained in other security laws as well as in the Code of Criminal Procedure were also misused against political and human rights activists. (Amnesty International Report, 2004)

The Indian government’s failure to account for these abuses and take rigorous action against those members of its forces responsible for murder, rape and torture amounts to a policy of condoning human rights violations by the security forces.
Among the worst of these violations have been the summary executions of hundreds of detainees in the custody of the security forces in occupied Kashmir. Such killings are carried out as a matter of policy.
…… operating as secret illegal army, have been the state – sponsored paramilitary groups. Many of these groups have been responsible for grave human rights abuses, including summary executions, torture and illegal detention as well as election – related intimidation of voters. (Human Rights Watch Asia, Report, 2005)


Indian troops continue to use extra judicial killings as a method to suppress insurgency in Kashmir. The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) reported 136 deaths in police custody and 1357 deaths in judicial custody during the period of January to March, 2004. Besides, the Indian authorities generally did not report encounter deaths in Jammu & Kashmir to the NAHRC. (State Department Report, 2005)

The condition of detainees (Kashmiris), languishing in different jails of the State (occupied Kashmir) and outside (India) was worse than that of those in Abu Gharib prison in Iraq. The methods and manners in which detainees are being treated in interrogation centres are horrible. You will forget Abu Gharib after listening to the horrific tales of Kashmiri detainees in these jails. (Kashmir Bar Association, Srinagar - April, 2006)

According to the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons, eight to ten thousand Kashmiris disappeared mysteriously in Indian Held Kashmir between 1989-2003, while the Asian Centre for Human Rights put the figure at six thousand. (US State Department Report, 2006)

Politically motivated violence slightly decreased but torture, deaths in custody and “disappearances” continued to be reported. At least 38 people were reported to have died in custody…….. Several people had been held under the PSA for over 10 years under successive PSA detention orders. (Amnesty International Report-2006)





Most regional sources indicate that more than 93,000 Kashmiris have already sacrificed their lives in pursuit of freedom from Indian rule. Over 102,000 houses and shops have been either burnt or looted. More than 100,000 children have been orphaned and roughly 10,350 women have so far been molested. It is indeed difficult to calculate that how many Kashmiris are missing or hiding but rough estimates put the figure to over 100,000. These figures by themselves paint a horrible picture in Kashmir.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indian occupied Kashmir is under marshal law for the last 26 years

AFSPA - Armed Forces Special Powers Act is essentially marshal law

Respectfully, because you have always been a balanced poster, balls it is. I could explain at length, but I have just come out of a bruising argument with the kind I hate most in the world, religious bigots, so beyond just saying this, I will plead exhaustion and the privileges of old farts, and vanish till later.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Army officer who served in Kashmir writes his heart out

Battle Hardened- Kids enjoy time out in defiance of curfew in a Srinagar locality- Pic Credit Afp




SRINAGAR: There is no emotional bind between India and Kashmir,concludes an ex army officer who was stationed in Kashmir after delving deep into himself and articulating the conflict between humane emotions and the call of duty.
Dinesh Tiwari, in his touching and brutally honest post on his facebook page, reminisces about his experience as a child growing in Nepal when the country was in the throes of Maoist insurgency and draws parallels between his teenage persona, conflicted emotions and bearing the brunt of the Government forces and Kashmir's youth. Tiwari then goes on to illustrate the pathos and bathos of Kashmir after his poignant encounter with a Kashmiri child, who after all these years, would be the same age as Burhan Wani.


Read what the ex-major wrote

“I have been to Kashmir. No, not as a tourist.

I have lived there. I have worked there.I was part of the heavy military instrument of the Indian State in the paradise, guarding it from the heaven dwellers themselves. And some mischievous neighbors too.

As a 21 year old, with the might of one of the biggest militaries in the world behind me and its command pinned on my shoulders, its determination manifested in the AK in my hand, I have roamed the towns and villages with authority which none of the Burhan Wanis or Bhatts or Wazirs or Bhans or Wattals or anybody else whose land it was, would have dared to.

Ironically, as a Citizen of Nepal, serving in the Indian Army, I was a bundle of contradictions myself.
When I led a group of armed men through a tense neighborhood, I could not help recall the state I was in myself as a teenager, back home in Nepal, angry and frustrated because of the curfew imposed in my hometown, from six in the evening to six in the morning every day for years.

When the maoist insurgency was at its peak, I was a teenager. I have been frisked, violated, insulted; made to do pushups and squats just because I asked the police man at the check post to repeat himself when he instructed something and I did not properly hear.

There were regular visits to our houses-- by police in uniform, by police without uniform, by a secret police who every one knew was a secret police; also from unknown people with weapons prominently hidden under wraps, meant to be seen and feared, demanding food,shelter, and money.

I was angry, very angry. I was angry at the then mysterious figure of Prachanda, whose only one picture in combat fatigues was public at that time. I was angry at the ideologue Dr Baburam Bhattarai --legendary nepal topper (Board First) and PhD from JNU -- who was known to be the brain behind the movement.

I was angry at the people who marched in my town with weapons held high, after they blew away the local bank and the police station.

I was also angry at the policeman who frisked me, dragged me by my arm, threw my bag scattering away all my stuff on the floor and pinned me down to the ground and poked the back of my neck with a pointed object. It wasn't a stick. It was cold and heavy. I did not see it but a chill ran down my spine.

It blew up the anger. I was angry at the government. At the state,which had ignored so many people for so many years that they were ready to fight, and kill and die.

Also, I was angry at myself. Without knowing the reason, without a target, the anger was building up and building pressure and engulfing me.

I was lucky. I had options to flee. I fled at the right time.When I looked at a beautiful Kashmiri child, who approached me with an innocent admiration and a genuine query, 'You must be Kashmiri, are you Kashmiri?', I was fumbling for an answer.

I would have liked to tell him -- 'Yes, I am.'I would have loved to say -- 'Yes, we are. We are all Kashmiris. We are all heaven dwellers.'

I would have wanted him to know--'We are here for you. We are your men.'

I would have wanted to give him a smile, a nudge, pinch his cheeks,and ruffle his hair a bit and say, 'Yes, I am a Kashmiri. And I love Kashmir. And you.'

But I did not. Because I did not. I did not love Kashmir. And I did not love that child.I was not a Kashmiri. And I was not a tourist.

Kashmir, for me was a duty. An assignment, an ardous task that had to be fulfilled to my utmost capability and most importantly, survived.I did not pack a camera, few romantic novels and Faiz and Gulzar's poetry books before stepping on to the heaven.



I was trained to kill, and armed for it. My literature was bloody. As a preparation, I was not educated on the beauty the land was but on the contours of terror that prevailed within the landscape.

I did not go through accounts of romantic unions in the scenic backdrops, but brainstormed over hundreds of case studies of bloody and fatal encounters in the terrain.

For me Kashmir was not to be appreciated, but assessed, analysed and acted upon, and survived.

For me the innocent child was not that innocent.

The images of children carrying messages, supplies and even weapons,read in the extensive case studies, immediately cropped up in my mind.

Even before noticing his sparkling beautiful blue eyes, pink apple-like cheeks, and loveliest smile, I had to scan through his whole body to know what was hidden.

Images of children blowing themselves away in front of security forces flashed before me even before I could comprehend the emotions in his voice.

Even before I could think of extending my hand to ruffle his hair, the grip on the AK tightened automatically and my trigger finger was alert.

No, my friend, I am not a Kashmiri. I could not be one. I was not expected to be one. Therefore, I was not educated to be one. I was not trained to be one.

And I do not love you and your Kashmir. I could not. I was not expected to. I was not educated to. I was not trained to.

I was fumbling for an answer. I did not reply.

The child's mother came running, lifted him up and dragged him away hurriedly, slouching a bit, without even looking at me.

Today, he must be Burhan's age. And I don't love him still. And thatis one of the reasons why Kashmir burns.”


~ Dinesh Tiwari

 

[Hellfire]

Indian occupied Kashmir is under marshal law for the last 26 years

AFSPA - Armed Forces Special Powers Act is essentially marshal law

Incorrect.

Martial Law simply over rules the established civil set up in every sphere. AFSPA simply enables counter insurgency operation by obviating the need to obtain a warrant for search/arrest/detention.

The soldier is already exempt from arrest in performance of legal military duty. (S)he is exempt from any act which may lead to injury/death in execution of his legal military duty in aid to civil authority vide CrPC 1973 as long as the said duty is performed in accordance with legal military commands and are in accordance with Army Acts and CrPC of 1973. It is untrue when people jump on AFSPA claiming impunity to shoot and kill people. That always exists, even without AFSPA as long as the civil administration has requisitioned the use of military forces for aid in establishing law and order.

The act empowers any Officer, JCO, NCO/Warrant Officer to employ force if in his/her opinion, the said force is required to protect life and property of the others and personal safety. The order has to be endorsed by DM if not present at the time of issue of such orders.

Your analogy can be rebutted on numerous counts. I am sure the above shall suffice?

@Azlan Haider Your post at #184. New style nowadays in India is to write open letters (as a Major Gaurav Arya, a veteran wrote the other day) or give non-sense like the above. It has to do with trying to get a job as a 'defence analyst' and popularity .... Maj Gaurav Arya managed to get an invite to TIMES NOW the other night.

Like I was saying to Indian members who were supporting his letter, it was bereft of logic and reasoning. He was talking like a lay man, someone who does not understand war and politics thereof.

Coming back to the above, this gentleman could have resigned the next day if he felt so strongly about it, he didn't.

It is like many Indians and Pakistanis on this thread itself, such articles or rather 'sob stories' do nothing to help the Kashmiris. It is the need of the hour to educate the idiots on either side the futility of violence. Something which we are failing to do.


Just my opinion.

Powers to security forces in AFSPA is as under:

The army can shoot to kill, under the powers of section 4(a), for the commission or suspicion of the commission of the following offenses: acting in contravention of any law or order for the time being in force in the disturbed area prohibiting the assembly of five or more persons, carrying weapons, or carrying anything which is capable of being used as a fire-arm or ammunition. To justify the invocation of this provision, the officer need only be "of the opinion that it is necessary to do so for the maintenance of public order" and only give "such due warning as he may consider necessary". (covered under rules of engagement as specified by Army Act in aid to civil authorities which specify the steps to be followed: Firstly order the dispersal of the assembly, secondly hold up posters of warning the said assembly to disperse in English and local language as applicable along with announcements on a PA/Loudspeaker system in English and Local Language as applicable, thirdly, to observe for any signs of violence, if violence occurs to identify the perpetrators/leaders of the said gathering and fire below the knee in order to neutralise them. The fire will be initiated by personnel designated by the controlling officer, who will clearly lay out the number of rounds to be fired, who will personally ensure that the fire is single round and not automatic, and will ensure fire is only initiated with his command and stops after single execution ie after one round is fired, the officer has to give a command again to fire if required; after the desired effect the officer has to ensure medical aid and care to those affected by the fire)

The army can destroy property under section 4(b) if it is an arms dump, a fortified position or shelter from where armed attacks are made or are suspected of being made, if the structure is used as a training camp, or as a hide-out by armed gangs or absconders.

The army can arrest anyone without a warrant under section 4(c) who has committed, is suspected of having committed or of being about to commit, a cognisable offense and use any amount of force "necessary to effect the arrest".

Under section 4(d), the army can enter and search without a warrant to make an arrest or to recover any property, arms, ammunition or explosives which are believed to be unlawfully kept on the premises. This section also allows the use of force necessary for the search.

Section 5: This section states that after the military has arrested someone under the AFSPA, they must hand that person over to the nearest police station with the "least possible delay". (within 24 hours is the SOP for all units except for those who have been caught spying for the other side; they come under exemption category as are dealt by Counter-Intelligence agencies) There is no definition in the act of what constitutes the least possible delay. Some case-law has established that 4 to 5 days is too long. But since this provision has been interpreted as depending on the specifics circumstances of each case, there is no precise amount of time after which the section is violated.

Section 6: This section establishes that no legal proceeding can be brought against any member of the armed forces acting under the AFSPA, without the permission of the Central Government.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@hellfire

AFSPA provides legal immunity to army officials which is misused quite a lot. Indian Armed forces can commit all kinds of "crimes" that will not be considered crimes under the Judicial System of India ... United Nations has repeatedly asked India to revoke this out dated and colonial-era law that breaches contemporary international human rights standards. But the so called "largest democracy of the world " won't pay heed .. !!



"Most regional sources indicate that more than 93,000 Kashmiris have already sacrificed their lives in pursuit of freedom from Indian rule. Over 102,000 houses and shops have been either burnt or looted. More than 100,000 children have been orphaned and roughly 10,350 women have so far been molested. It is indeed difficult to calculate that how many Kashmiris are missing or hiding but rough estimates put the figure to over 100,000. These figures by themselves paint a horrible picture in Kashmir."


BUT


Till now, not a single member of the security forces deployed in the state has been tried for human rights violations in a civilian court.

In July 2015, Amnesty International accused the Indian government of refusing to prosecute perpetrators of human rights abuses in the region.

According to Amnesty, more than 96 percent of all allegations of human rights violations pitted against India's personnel in the disputed territory have been declared as "false or baseless".

This lack of accountability has in turn facilitated other serious abuses," Minar Pimple, a senior director of global operations at Amnesty said.

 

[Hellfire]

@Azlan Haider Your post #186. False, I repeat, false and bereft of any truth,

I will give you only one example:

Machchal Fake Encounter. Tried in an army court under rules existing in Army Act and sentenced to life imprisonment. CO et al.

Have covered the details earlier, so wont cover them.

You need to stop posting amnesty. India and Pakistan will be hell holes on earth if we use their accounts ... lol

You hang militants after trial by military courts ... !!!

 

[M. Sarmad]

@Azlan Haider Your post #186. False, I repeat, false and bereft of any truth,

Well, My friend, May be you didn't read it properly. Till now, not a single member of the security forces deployed in the state has been tried for human rights violations in a civilian court.

Please quote a single such example when members of the security forces had been tried for human rights violation in a civilian court ... And if You can't, then there is no reason to reject the truth of this report by Amnesty .

As for Machil Fake Encounter, when, In a rare deviation from the norm, a military court sentenced five Indian soldiers,
Amnesty welcomed the move but cautioned that "for justice to be consistently delivered, security force personnel accused of human rights violations should be prosecuted in civilian courts".

 

[Hellfire]

Well, My friend, May be you didn't read it properly. Till now, not a single member of the security forces deployed in the state has been tried for human rights violations in a civilian court.

Please post a single such example when members of the security forces had been tried for human rights violation in a civilian court ... And if You can't, then there is no reason to reject the truth of this report by Amnesty .

As for Machil Fake Encounter, when, In a rare deviation from the norm, a military court sentenced five Indian soldiers,
Amnesty welcomed the move but cautioned that "for justice to be consistently delivered, security force personnel accused of human rights violations should be prosecuted in civilian courts".

Again. Read the post I have previously posted. The trial of all military personnel is conducted by a court appointed by Military. Only in cases where the army feels that it is unable to adjudicate on the aforementioned crime as being beyond the scope of its investigation/power (such as murder, rapes, dacoity, robbery, theft, arson, swindle etc while on leave and away from active service) is the individual first suspended from all active duties and then handed over for further disposal by a civil court.

Since, the excesses which occurred (and here I admit there have been cases no doubt) while in discharge of the official duties, the trial is by an army court of law.

I said read Machchal Encounter and the judgement thereof.

I will clarify any question you have on that particular case.

Anyways, in your country and mine this position holds:


http://www.dawn.com/news/769154/high-court-orders-arrest-of-army-officer

However, in civil cases where the accused acts of his own accord and not while in discharge of his function in official capacity, Indian Army hands over the accused after ascertaining the facts of the case (FIRs etc in case of cognizable offences) when required.

Thanks

 

[M. Sarmad]

Again. Read the post I have previously posted. The trial of all military personnel is conducted by a court appointed by Military.......

That exactly is the point. Do you really expect that any military court (no matter in what country) will be neutral and uphold justice while deciding cases in which the military itself is the "accused" ?

According to Amnesty, more than 96 percent of all allegations of human rights violations pitted against India's personnel in the disputed territory have been declared as "false or baseless"(by military courts). Machil Fake Encounter case was a rare "deviation" from the norm.

And that's why Amnesty believes that "for justice to be consistently delivered, security force personnel accused of human rights violations should be prosecuted in civilian courts"... I am sure no neutral and sensible person, regardless of his/her nationality, will disagree with Amnesty Int. on this.

 

[Hellfire]

@Azlan Haider Did you read the Machchal Encounter, its verdict and the punishment given by an ARMY court?

 

[M. Sarmad]

@Azlan Haider Did you read the Machchal Encounter, its verdict and the punishment given by an ARMY court?

Yes, I did. But the point is, tens of thousands have been killed in Kashmir, thousands of women have been raped, tens of thousands houses and shops have been burnt by the Indian Army in Kashmir, and just one example of justice being served ?? What about the other thousands of similar cases ?

 

[Hellfire]

Yes, I did. But the point is,

1. tens of thousands have been killed in Kashmir,

2. thousands of women have been raped,

3. tens of thousands houses and shops have been burnt by the Indian Army in Kashmir,

and just one example of justice being served ?? What about the other thousands of similar cases ?

You attention is drawn to

1. Greater than 27000 militants killed till date. In tens of thousands remaining there are thousands of foreigners (not including Pakistanis) who have been killed in 90s and till early 2000s. Add to that the thousands of Pakistanis. Add security personnel losses. Figure goes upto 60-70000 in 27 years.

2. Hardly. Those who have been found indulging in rape, have been punished. If that was the case, the beautiful girls (and they are beautiful and nice, insofar rudeness is reserved for uniform, not the person) walking along dal lake would not have the audacity to abuse a soldier easily.

3. In CI operations. Compensation is always paid. So another lie.

You see, with your posts so far, I can assume that you are more of a guy who has not been on ground. Well, I understand your above statements then. However, apart from upholding the rhetoric and propaganda as required as part of state policy, one needs to be pragmatic.

I quoted only one example as there are hundreds wherein justice has been served. Not all come in public domain
For India such cases are dealt harshly, failure to do so would alienate the population further. But not because propaganda says that rape has been committed is a soldier punished.

Also, for a soldier to move out of his camp/get a woman to his camp is next to impossible. So your contentions above are far fetched in politest of terms

Two can play the game, but it serves no purpose. Kids do such things - level allegations and hurl abuses on each other.

No counter-insurgency is fought without its share of abuses. Now I will post examples from your own efforts. I was trying to keep you along a track where I didn't have to resort to such methods but then at times members like yourself leave no option:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/306916/...rs-of-sexual-abuse-in-conflict-stricken-fata/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/pakistan/report-pakistan/

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...fata-lawless-no-more-2014321111550828897.html

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=A4tYAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=rapes+by+Pakistan+army+in+Fata&source=bl&ots=PioyVfnu0t&sig=LbdmpuNsZyTIOePCNcDbiouPpH0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp2uSWi57OAhUHpI8KHQ3SDeQ4ChDoAQg9MAU#v=onepage&q=rapes by Pakistan army in Fata&f=false

http://www.wunrn.org/news/2011/10_11/10_24/102411_pakistan2.html

https://khyberinstitute.wordpress.c...c-human-rights-crisis-in-north-west-pakistan/

Intact shops?

https://fatareforms.org/miranshah-bazaar-army-tank-north-waziristan-photo-by-safdar-dawar/

http://tns.thenews.com.pk/zarb-e-azb-one-year-on-findings-and-conclusions/#.V54luFdCJsM


http://www.protectingeducation.org/sites/default/files/documents/amnesty_as_if_hell_fell_on_me.pdf

https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=42+Syracuse+J.+Int'l+L.+&+Com.+445&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=9f1500ba03c34726250c61af8cdc19c8


You see, one can keep pointing fingers ..

I can post loads of data over rapes by your troops and security personnel, but what does it achieve?

Anything significant other than you and I scoring stupid points off each others' side's atrocities/failure of command and control/failure to enforce law of land and feeling mightily happy about it?

I think not. If you, however, feel the need to keep on this track, by all means do so, I admit defeat!

If you read any treatise on Guerrilla Warfare, you will realise that it is brutal, the side that dominates the landscape, be it topographically or the ability to terrorise, controls the situation invariably.

There are 03 types of persons involved in any guerrilla warfare: the protagonists, the antagonists and the indifferent. The last is the largest size of people, and their only concern is survival .. so the above contention of terrorising by either side. Nothing works like fear. Its a hard fact, accept it or not. Your wish

Thanks.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@hellfire ... So you choose to close your eyes ?


"As the conflict in Kashmir enters its fourth year, central and state authorities have done little to stop the widespread practice of rape of innocent women by Indian security forces in Kashmir. Indeed, when confronted with the evidence of rape, time and again the authorities have attempted to impugn the integrity of the witnesses, discredit the testimony of physicians or simply deny the charges everything except order a full inquiry and prosecute those responsible for rape". (Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)



"Since January 1990, rape by Indian occupation forces has become more frequent. Rape most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon and search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In raping them, the security forces are attempting to punish and humiliate the entire community." ('Pain in Kashmir: A Crime of War' issued jointly by Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)




"Despite pressure from League of Human Rights and other humanitarian organizations the Indian forces have not desisted from using torture and sequestration of political opponents and using methods that defy imagination." (Le Quotidien de Paris, September 05, 1992)


"The most common torture methods are severe beatings, sometimes while the victim is hung upside down, and electric shocks. People have also been crushed with heavy rollers, burned, stabbed with sharp instruments, and had objects such as chilies or thick sticks forced into their rectums. Sexual mutilation has been reported".
(Amnesty International, March 1992)



"Widespread human rights violations in the state since January 1990 have been attributed to the (Kashmir) Indian army, and the Paramilitary Border Security Force and Central Reserve Police Force."(Amnesty International, March 1992)




"The term "rape of Kashmir", is no exaggeration. India's Hindu and Sikh forces have adopted a concerted policy of raping Muslim women which is designed to break the will of the Kashmiri resistance... The world community should immediately bring political and economic pressure on India to stop behaving like a Mongol." (Eric Margolis, Sunday Sun, April 12, 1992)



"The worst outrages by the CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) have been frequent gang rapes of all women in Muslim villages, followed by the execution of the men". (Eric Margolis, The Ottawa Citizen, December 8, 1991)



"While army troops dragged men from their homes for questioning in the border town of Kunan Pushpura, scores of women say they were raped by soldiers....a pregnant Kashmiri woman, who was raped and kicked, gave birth to a son with a broken arm." (Melinda Liuin, Newsweek, June 24, 1991)[Anthony Wood and Ron MaCullagh of the Sunday Observer (June 02, 1992)



estimated that over 500 Indian army men were involved in this orgy of rape and plunder in Kunan Pushpura Kashmir.]



"The security forces have entered hospitals, beaten patients, hit doctors, entered operating theaters, smashed instruments. Ambulances have been attacked, curfew passes are confiscated." (Asia Watch, May 1991)


"Sexual molestation, beatings, threats of violence, and electric shock are the most common forms of torture in Kashmir.” (Asia Watch, May 1991)



Shall I post more ?

 

[Hellfire]

@Azlan Haider

I am not closing anything. Am asking what does it achieve?

Your side and my side, all are guilty as hell. What is your point?

I can give you a discourse on fighting an insurgency .. but what will that achieve?