Autonomy Under Indian Constitution: An Old Pragmatic Approach To Kashmir or a Recipe for Disaster?

[Hellfire]

Grant a large degree of autonomy to J&K: Chidambaram
PTI | Jul 20, 2016, 09.44 PM IST

NEW DELHI: Proposing a radical solution to the situation in Kashmir, senior Congress leader and former home minister P Chidambaram on Wednesday night advocated restoring the "grand bargain" under which Kashmir had acceded to India by granting a large degree of autonomy, warning that otherwise the country will have to pay a "heavy price".

"I think their approach is wrong. We have ignored the grand bargain under which Kashmir acceded to India. I think we broke faith, we broke promises and as a result we have paid a heavy price," he told Karan Thapar on India Today.

He said the best solution, according to him, was that New Delhi should give an assurance to the people of Kashmir that the "grand bargain" promised during the time of Kashmir's accession "will be honoured fully".

Chidambaram said, "I may be wrong, I may be right but what is necessary is to give the assurance that the grand bargain will be fully honoured. Let them (people of Kashmir) frame their own laws as much as possible and as long as it does not conflict with the Constitution.

"We have to assure that we will respect identity, history, culture, religion..."

Citing India's advice to Sri Lankan on devolution of asymmetric powers to Tamil areas of the north and east, the former minister said implement what we are preaching to Sri Lanka.

Chidambaram said the situation in Kashmir has been mishandled by successive governments in Srinagar and New Delhi.

"We (UPA government) did mishandle. But we corrected ourselves in 2010. Now, both the governments in Delhi and Srinagar mishandled (it) very, very badly," he said.

Asserting that Kashmir "required a unique political solution", Chidambaram blamed the ruling PDP-BJP alliance for the present crisis saying they (alliance) should have never come to power.

"The alliance itself is a grave provocation for the valley. It is a legitimate government. They have the numbers. The legitimacy of the government has not taken away the fact that these two partners forming government has given a sense of fear among people of Kashmir."

Asserting that 'Azadi' means different things to different people, Chidambaram said what is necessary is to give an assurance that grand bargain will be fully honoured.

"Let them frame their own laws as long as it does not conflict with the Constitution. As much as possible we have to assure that we will respect the identity, history, culture, religion.... and allow them to be part of India."

Asked if Prime Minister Narendra Modi can implement such a proposal as he is known as a doer, he said "I don't know what his fundamental beliefs are. If his fundamental belief is that India must be a majoritarian state whatever I said will be a complete waste on him."

He said that the decision of former Chief Minister Mufti Mohammed Sayeed to allign with the BJP was a "blot" on his political career. "It was a serious mistake," he said.

Chidambaram rued that for a long time the the Corps Commander of the Army was the overall incharge of security of Kashmir and not the chief minister or the director general of Jammu & Kashmir Police.

"... handing over security to defence ... making GOC virtually the overall command ... these shifts should not have happened ... it happened over the period. I found that GoC was overall incharge not CM or DGP ... but CM's writ does not run ... We pulled back considerably but there was no follow up," he said.

Chidambaram said when he was the home minister he wanted to move the Army and paramilitary forces to border areas, abolish the controversial AFSPA or at least amend it and make the state police overall incharge of law and order situation.

As many as 10,000 personnel of the forces were moved out. "However, it was not followed up," he said.

Chidambaram admitted that he could not push forward a proposal for withdrawal of AFSPA from parts of the state because of opposition from the defence establishment.
"I could not convince the defence establishment and political leadership. Opinion within the government was sharply divided. Political leadership could not overrule the defence opinion even though paramilitary forces came on board," he said.

He regretted that no follow up action was taken on the reports of the interlocutors for Kashmir appointed when he was the Home Minister.

"I think the interlocutors reports should have been acted upon. We have not implemented bulk of the recommendationm..," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...my-to-JK-Chidambaram/articleshow/53306302.cms

@Joe Shearer Tagging you for your comments sir. Merge it somewhere if need be.

@kaykay @Omega007 @Arsalan@Stephen Cohen @Levina @SrNair @Nair saab

 

[[Bregs]]

J&K is like another state of india and there shouldn't be much difference in it with other states

 

[Hellfire]

J&K is like another state of india and there shouldn't be much difference in it with other states

Agreed. But then we can hear the counter-narrative. That is why have stuck it into Seniors Cafe.

 

[[Bregs]]

Agreed. But then we can hear the counter-narrative. That is why have stuck it into Seniors Cafe.

counter narrative has failed till now so no need to further reinforce that idea of special status at least keep it status quo

 

[Hellfire]

counter narrative has failed till now so no need to further reinforce that idea of special status at least keep it status quo

From members. Many members from India also fail to appreciate that the issue needs more of a political settlement instead of a perpetuation of the military solution which we use. Chidambaram has rued the power given to GOC 15 Corps directly, yet has aimed at Northern Army Commander Lt Gen KT Parnaik who refused to toe his line and concur to withdrawal of troops and AFSPA from valley, a gimmick by the gentleman at the time as Home Minister which was reminiscent of Gujral's foolishness of withdrawing forces from vale in 1997-98 period (by thinning out troops seeing decrease in militant activity saying that as bigger power and neighbour we need to be magnanimous or something to that effect), while absolutely keeping mum on the failure of the politicians to achieve a political settlement even after the interlocutors were sent to valley and also he has failed to justify the failure of UPA to reach a permanent agreement with Pakistan which was rumoured to be almost finalised with Musharraf.

 

[[Bregs]]

From members. Many members from India also fail to appreciate that the issue needs more of a political settlement instead of a perpetuation of the military solution which we use. Chidambaram has rued the power given to GOC 15 Corps directly, yet has aimed at Northern Army Commander Lt Gen KT Parnaik who refused to toe his line and concur to withdrawal of troops and AFSPA from valley, a gimmick by the gentleman at the time as Home Minister which was reminiscent of Gujral's foolishness of withdrawing forces from vale in 1997-98 period (by thinning out troops seeing decrease in militant activity saying that as bigger power and neighbour we need to be magnanimous or something to that effect), while absolutely keeping mum on the failure of the politicians to achieve a political settlement even after the interlocutors were sent to valley and also he has failed to justify the failure of UPA to reach a permanent agreement with Pakistan which was rumoured to be almost finalised with Musharraf.

The failure of politicians is due to complexity of this state problem as well as the lack of will power and politically it needs to be addressed but without giving more power under special status

 

[ranjeet]

Chidambaram batting for "unique political solution" by suggesting that Parties with majority from Jammu and kashmir regions shouldn't have formed government. Yes let's suppress the majority of one region to please the other.

BJP has enough political capital to spend on Kashmir and they are willing to take the risk, this alliance is proof enough. But what is required is for PDP to share the load. Curb the weekly stone pelting marathons, build a consensus over resettlement of Pandits in the valley and a huge drive to desensitize the people injected with "jihad".

came across this article from a Pakistani media outlet and it does raises few good points.
http://nation.com.pk/columns/15-Jul-2016/disown-jihadist-freedom-fighters-in-kashmir

(started a thread on this article but looks like its still under moderation)

 

[I M Sikander]

Grant a large degree of autonomy to J&K: Chidambaram
PTI | Jul 20, 2016, 09.44 PM IST

NEW DELHI: Proposing a radical solution to the situation in Kashmir, senior Congress leader and former home minister P Chidambaram on Wednesday night advocated restoring the "grand bargain" under which Kashmir had acceded to India by granting a large degree of autonomy, warning that otherwise the country will have to pay a "heavy price".

"I think their approach is wrong. We have ignored the grand bargain under which Kashmir acceded to India. I think we broke faith, we broke promises and as a result we have paid a heavy price," he told Karan Thapar on India Today.

He said the best solution, according to him, was that New Delhi should give an assurance to the people of Kashmir that the "grand bargain" promised during the time of Kashmir's accession "will be honoured fully".

Chidambaram said, "I may be wrong, I may be right but what is necessary is to give the assurance that the grand bargain will be fully honoured. Let them (people of Kashmir) frame their own laws as much as possible and as long as it does not conflict with the Constitution.

"We have to assure that we will respect identity, history, culture, religion..."

Citing India's advice to Sri Lankan on devolution of asymmetric powers to Tamil areas of the north and east, the former minister said implement what we are preaching to Sri Lanka.

Chidambaram said the situation in Kashmir has been mishandled by successive governments in Srinagar and New Delhi.

"We (UPA government) did mishandle. But we corrected ourselves in 2010. Now, both the governments in Delhi and Srinagar mishandled (it) very, very badly," he said.

Asserting that Kashmir "required a unique political solution", Chidambaram blamed the ruling PDP-BJP alliance for the present crisis saying they (alliance) should have never come to power.

"The alliance itself is a grave provocation for the valley. It is a legitimate government. They have the numbers. The legitimacy of the government has not taken away the fact that these two partners forming government has given a sense of fear among people of Kashmir."

Asserting that 'Azadi' means different things to different people, Chidambaram said what is necessary is to give an assurance that grand bargain will be fully honoured.

"Let them frame their own laws as long as it does not conflict with the Constitution. As much as possible we have to assure that we will respect the identity, history, culture, religion.... and allow them to be part of India."

Asked if Prime Minister Narendra Modi can implement such a proposal as he is known as a doer, he said "I don't know what his fundamental beliefs are. If his fundamental belief is that India must be a majoritarian state whatever I said will be a complete waste on him."

He said that the decision of former Chief Minister Mufti Mohammed Sayeed to allign with the BJP was a "blot" on his political career. "It was a serious mistake," he said.

Chidambaram rued that for a long time the the Corps Commander of the Army was the overall incharge of security of Kashmir and not the chief minister or the director general of Jammu & Kashmir Police.

"... handing over security to defence ... making GOC virtually the overall command ... these shifts should not have happened ... it happened over the period. I found that GoC was overall incharge not CM or DGP ... but CM's writ does not run ... We pulled back considerably but there was no follow up," he said.

Chidambaram said when he was the home minister he wanted to move the Army and paramilitary forces to border areas, abolish the controversial AFSPA or at least amend it and make the state police overall incharge of law and order situation.

As many as 10,000 personnel of the forces were moved out. "However, it was not followed up," he said.

Chidambaram admitted that he could not push forward a proposal for withdrawal of AFSPA from parts of the state because of opposition from the defence establishment.
"I could not convince the defence establishment and political leadership. Opinion within the government was sharply divided. Political leadership could not overrule the defence opinion even though paramilitary forces came on board," he said.

He regretted that no follow up action was taken on the reports of the interlocutors for Kashmir appointed when he was the Home Minister.

"I think the interlocutors reports should have been acted upon. We have not implemented bulk of the recommendationm..," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...my-to-JK-Chidambaram/articleshow/53306302.cms

@Joe Shearer Tagging you for your comments sir. Merge it somewhere if need be.

@kaykay @Omega007 @Arsalan

That's the main issue, Kashmiris want plebiscite and Indian thugs are trying to seduce them with lolly pops within Indian Constitution frame work.

 

[Hellfire]

That's the main issue, Kashmiris want plebiscite and Indian thugs are trying to seduce them with lolly pops within Indian Constitution frame work.

Don't get stuck on plebiscite. It is a boring and long discussion .. I have said it long back in forum. If Pakistan wants plebiscite, then it should start withdrawal of forces, unilaterally and suo-moto, that shall leave India in a difficult spot - if India does not follow suit, it shall be in violation of the UN resolution (and trust me, India won't want to be seen like that) and if it follows suit, you get what you want.

Your action of unilateral withdrawal under the aegis of UN and as part of UN resolution will be a diplomatic and political coup. A bloody diplomatic nightmare for India. We want to be seen as being UN compliant and upholding UN etc etc .. do that as the first step was of withdrawal of Pakistani forces ... and then put the pressure on India .. take the world opinion with you when you do it .. get the world powers on the same page, India will be check mated.

Will you do that? See personal insults are not the way to proceed on any discussion.

 

[I M Sikander]

. I have said it long back in forum. Pakistan wants plebiscite, then it should start withdrawal of forces, that shall leave India red faced.

Not just removal of Pakistani forces from Azad Kashmir but indian forces from IOK also.
And UNO peace keeping forces shall br introduced in the Valley so that plebiscite could take place.

 

[Hellfire]

Not just removal of Pakistani forces from Azad Kashmir but indian forces from IOK also.
And UNO peace keeping forces shall br introduced in the Valley so that plebiscite could take place.

Yes. But step 1 was your withdrawal .. after that Indian forces move out. I know the resolution inside out. So said .. what stops Pakistan from doing it?

Anyways we are trying to discuss whether the above approach has any sense (the Chidambaram rant above).

Just had amended the original post ... please collate

 

[I M Sikander]

Yes. But step 1 was your withdrawal .. after that Indian forces move out. I know the resolution inside out. So said .. what stops Pakistan from doing it?

Indian attitude and intentions stops Pakistan. Pakistan has never declared that it won't withdraw forces from Azad Kashmir.

But First india should inform UNO that they are ready to hold plebiscite in Kashmir and then it will be the UNO peace keeping forces who will replace Pakistan's and Indian forces on both sides.

 

[dray]

Agreed. But then we can hear the counter-narrative. That is why have stuck it into Seniors Cafe.

That will not solve any problem, because the separatists in Kashmir, the 'Sunni-Muslim segment of the Kashmir Valley' are NOT looking for greater autonomy, they are wanting to get out of the Indian union and in all probability wanting to join their religious brotherhood of Pakistan.

Rather, it will only embolden the separatists and encourage them to launch a more militant campaign of separatism.

Please understand that the problem may appear to be a political one, but at its core it is a religious one, they are looking forward to create their own little 'Khilafat', an Islamic state there, giving them greater control of the state's political matters and administration, greater autonomy, won't at all address the real problem.

 

[Hellfire]

Indian attitude and intentions stops Pakistan. Pakistan has never declared that it won't withdraw forces from Azad Kashmir.

But First india should inform UNO that they are ready to hold plebiscite in Kashmir and then it will be the UNO peace keeping forces who will replace Pakistan's and Indian forces on both sides.

Are you aware that Plebiscite was suggested by India itself as a condition for accepting instrument of accession from Hari Singh? That Sheikh Abdullah's immediate release was part of demands India made? We can always argue why India did it, but it did.

Nothing stopped you from withdrawing immediately upon ceasefire except for the fact that the pillage and rape in Kahmir valley carried out by the victorious tribals from Uri right till Pattan carried the local sentiments against Pakistan. That stopped Pakistan from withdrawing. That Nehru backtracked from his promise is already agreed and discussed exhaustively.

Read the UN resolution. Indian police forces for security under the Commission were to be kept. Army was to be left on border in sufficient number to dissuade further aggression, again under the commissions control.

Stick to facts, don't twist them to suit your narrative. Am doing so myself. Let's be unbiased and dispassionate.

That will not solve any problem, because the separatists in Kashmir, the 'Sunni-Muslim segment of the Kashmir Valley' are NOT looking for greater autonomy, they are wanting to get out of the Indian union and in all probability wanting to join their religious brotherhood of Pakistan.

Rather, it will only embolden the separatists and encourage them to launch a more militant campaign of separatism.

Please understand that the problem may appear to be a political one, but at its core it is a religious one, they are looking forward to create their own little 'Khilafat', an Islamic state there, giving them greater control of the state's political matters and administration, greater autonomy, won't at all address the real problem.

Yes that is what is the trend since 2007 ably 'managed' by Intelligence services. The dividends are tremendous as a pov of security forces.

 

[dray]

Yes that is what is the trend since 2007 ably 'managed' by Intelligence services. The dividends are tremendous as a pov of security forces.

Though you are saying that; but check Bhutto's provocative speech probably in 1989, it clearly highlights the religious fault line, it is an unfinished business of 1947 at least in the minds of the Pakistanis and the Muslims in Kashmir Valley. Check her every word:

Don't get stuck on plebiscite. It is a boring and long discussion .. I have said it long back in forum. If Pakistan wants plebiscite, then it should start withdrawal of forces, unilaterally and sun-moto, that shall leave India in a difficult spot - if India does not follow suit, it shall be in violation of the UN resolution (and trust me, India won't want to be seen like that) and if it follows suit, you get what you want.

Your action of unilateral withdrawal under the aegis of UN and as part of UN resolution will be a diplomatic and political coup. A bloody diplomatic nightmare for India. We want to be seen as being UN compliant and upholding UN etc etc .. do that as the first step was of withdrawal of Pakistani forces ... and then put the pressure on India .. take the world opinion with you when you do it .. get the world powers on the same page, India will be check mated.

Will you do that? See personal insults are not the way to proceed on any discussion.

Not just removal of Pakistani forces from Azad Kashmir but indian forces from IOK also.
And UNO peace keeping forces shall br introduced in the Valley so that plebiscite could take place.

First, that UN resolution was non-binding in nature.

Second, Pakistan has already given away any option of UN intervention by signing the Simla agreement and agreeing to bilateral solution of all pending issues.

Third, Pakistan not only required to withdraw all the security forces from Pak occupied Kashmir region, but they are also required to remove all the people who have settled in P-O-K after 1947, and the part they have given away to China (Shaksgam valley) also needs to be a part of the plebiscite.

Fourth, India has the legal document of accession of Kashmir, it is Pakistan that is technically an illegal occupier of the parts of Kashmir that is in their control, so I think only Pakistan needs to remove its troops from P-O-K, India need not remove its troops from its part till the results of that supposed plebiscite go against India. Maybe @Joe Shearer can give us a clearer picture on this point.