Attack on security convoy in NW; 12 soldiers martyred

[Xeric]

Well allow me to shed off my cloak and come out as myself.

Ok.

The basic problem:

Our People actually makes the basic mistake. When they see a soldier on the Tv in his camo, wearing a green T-shirt, a well camouflaged helmet, putting on a bullet proof jacket, with a walkie-talkie tucked on the side of that BPJ, a GPS tucked behind his back, holding his MP-5 suited for CQB, we mis-take him as an American or British soldier probably. We all of a sudden forget that he belongs to the same Pakistan Army whom they blame of eating up country's 80% (my foot and a half!!) budget. They forget that when the Army's budget is increased it is not for constructing more Messes, new parks and APS, but for acquiring better and new equipment for the Army. What surprises me is that 'these' kinda people are not happy in both ways, neither they feel happy when they give more money as tax payers, nor do they feel contended if the military cant afford the luxuries of a stat-of-art military.

i made it amply clear that the use of air power has to be justified thoroughly and should be judicious-we are not spending rtrilons on are military, having said this one must also note the number of aviation assets that we have. Now a Mushak or Alouette cant be employed on anti-ambush role na! Moreover with an operation already underway, sparing an artillery guns warrants a complete war game what to talk about a Cobra or Bel-412. So please try to understand that though we have come a long way since we started in '47 but still we have much to acquire that i as an officer still dreams of, but thankfully we have officers and men who can do MORE with LESS!!

As for the SENIOR officers and HIGH UPS in the military moving a convoy; let me clear this for once and all, a convoy is moved as lower at the level of a Major or a CO (Lt Colonel). Yes the seniors do have an eye on everything and do direct accordingly.

This is the start, we would see such mishaps in future and we should pray that these should be to the minimum., instead of getting carried away with emotions. We have already lost quite a men, why this cry was not there then? Tomorrow someone here on the forum may suggest that those SSG troops should also have been court-martialed for being caught!

washingtonpost.com

Deadly Ambush Could Indicate Threat to Pakistan's Army

By Joshua Partlow
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, June 30, 2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, June 29 -- The Pakistani military is at war with the Taliban, but the ambush that killed 16 soldiers in the tribal region of North Waziristan on Sunday was still somewhat unexpected.

"There is no operation which was either planned or being conducted in North Waziristan," Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, a Pakistani military spokesman, told reporters Monday. "This attack was completely unprovoked."

The Taliban assault on an army convoy passing through the village of Inzar Kas was one of the deadliest incidents for the military during its two-month-old offensive against the insurgents. But to some analysts, it also served as a warning of a bigger threat -- the possibility that disparate Taliban factions might be closing ranks to battle the army in Pakistan.

The group that has asserted responsibility for Sunday's ambush is led by Hafiz Gul Bahadur, one of the many militant commanders in Pakistan and Afghanistan who fight -- sometimes against each other -- under the banner of the Taliban. In early 2008, Bahadur's group struck a peace deal with the local administration in North Waziristan, a mountainous tribal region along the Afghan border where the Pakistani government exerts little control. But a spokesman for his group announced Monday that because of U.S. drone bombings and Pakistani military activity, that peace has been shattered.

"We will carry out attacks on the security forces," Hamdullah Hamdi told reporters.

The failure of the accord in North Waziristan is a blow to the government as it plans a major operation in neighboring South Waziristan, home of Baitullah Mehsud, Pakistan's main Taliban foe and the man blamed for multiple suicide bombings and the assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. The region to the north is important because military strategists expect to use it as a transit route for ground troops and supplies.

Bahadur's call to arms followed another announcement by a formerly pro-government Taliban commander in South Waziristan, Maulvi Nazir, who last week warned that his fighters intend to target the military in response to its offensive and the drone strikes.

"These two, Maulvi Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadur, they were focused on Afghanistan," said Mahmood Shah, a security analyst and retired Pakistani army brigadier with experience in the northwestern tribal areas. "What we've heard is they've called back their fighters from Afghanistan and are bringing them to Pakistan."

Earlier last week, the government suffered yet another setback to its efforts to turn other fighters against Mehsud, when Taliban commander Qari Zainuddin, an enemy of Mehsud's, was killed by one of his own security guards.

"It was too naive to think he could defeat Baitullah Mehsud," Shah said of Zainuddin.

The string of developments suggests that the government's new efforts to take on Mehsud in South Waziristan could prove more challenging than its recent push into the Swat Valley, where military officials say they have nearly regained the territory from the Taliban. For the past two weeks, aircraft have strafed Mehsud's territory in preparation for a ground assault against his thousands of followers.

"The militants' attacks on military convoys and installations in North Waziristan are part of a well-thought-out Taliban strategy to expand the war to other territories from South Waziristan, where the army is currently operating," said Talat Masood, a defense analyst and retired general. "We will see more such attacks in coming days."

Special correspondents Haq Nawaz Khan and Shaiq Hussain contributed to this report.

The article says it all if someone wants to listen, only!

 

[Always Neutral]

As for the deal, I’m sorry, but to attack a Pakistani army convey, without a deceleration of war by Bahdur, shows he is a fu*cking coward, someone who contravened Islam’s highest ideals [breaking a truce] and should be killed. Enough of these peace deals with these animals.

Good Taliban my ***!

It is beyond belief, that aerial escorts were not being used in conjunction with the convey, especially since Gul Bahdur’s men had already launched a prior ambush a few days earlier. What were people expecting, a change of heart from him?

Attacking a fully armed convoy of soldiers shows someone is a coward ? Infact its very brave and well planned operation and since they have done it second time SOP of the PA have been found wanting and someone needs a stiff kick on the butt for this debacle.

Regards

 

[BATMAN]

@ xeric, I agree sir, but why is heli cover not provided to all convoy movements?
A simple surveillance UAV operated from a base 50km away can keep an eye on surroundings and retreating miscreants!

 

[MilesTogo]

Bastard! Why don't he go and attack USA and NATO troops in Afghanistan. They wanna do "Jihad" against west, fine but just get lost from our country.

Where does Islam teaches to kill muslims? Which Quran and Sunna they are following? But Wait......he will not......because he is NOT MUSLIM and an agent of India/Israel/Russia or could be USA.

This is funny.

 

[batmannow]

Well allow me to shed off my cloak and come out as myself.

Ok.

The basic problem:

Our People actually makes the basic mistake. When they see a soldier on the Tv in his camo, wearing a green T-shirt, a well camouflaged helmet, putting on a bullet proof jacket, with a walkie-talkie tucked on the side of that BPJ, a GPS tucked behind his back, holding his MP-5 suited for CQB, we mis-take him as an American or British soldier probably. We all of a sudden forget that he belongs to the same Pakistan Army whom they blame of eating up country's 80% (my foot and a half!!) budget. They forget that when the Army's budget is increased it is not for constructing more Messes, new parks and APS, but for acquiring better and new equipment for the Army. What surprises me is that 'these' kinda people are not happy in both ways, neither they feel happy when they give more money as tax payers, nor do they feel contended if the military cant afford the luxuries of a stat-of-art military.

i made it amply clear that the use of air power has to be justified thoroughly and should be judicious-we are not spending rtrilons on are military, having said this one must also note the number of aviation assets that we have. Now a Mushak or Alouette cant be employed on anti-ambush role na! Moreover with an operation already underway, sparing an artillery guns warrants a complete war game what to talk about a Cobra or Bel-412. So please try to understand that though we have come a long way since we started in '47 but still we have much to acquire that i as an officer still dreams of, but thankfully we have officers and men who can do MORE with LESS!!

As for the SENIOR officers and HIGH UPS in the military moving a convoy; let me clear this for once and all, a convoy is moved as lower at the level of a Major or a CO (Lt Colonel). Yes the seniors do have an eye on everything and do direct accordingly.

This is the start, we would see such mishaps in future and we should pray that these should be to the minimum., instead of getting carried away with emotions. We have already lost quite a men, why this cry was not there then? Tomorrow someone here on the forum may suggest that those SSG troops should also have been court-martialed for being caught!



The article says it all if someone wants to listen, only!

i guss, this a war! in which anything can happen , which we havnt been trained for, WAR OF TERROR ! no army in the world can claim its 100% succsess, in such conditions?
also we had to keep in our minds the hardest fact ,which these "KAFIRLIBANS" has have, just a single advantage! "THE KNOWING OF THE LOCATIONS" "THE DIFFERENT & FAST APPROCHING ROUTES FROM WHERE , OUR TROOPS WILL BE PASSING AFTER COMMING NEXT HOUR"
i guss , a lot has bieng done in the times, when afghan jihad was been carried out by PAKARMY with the help of the locals, also some of our retired "ISI GENRALS" were involved in making & discovering OR developing , different routes which were created back at the times of soviet occupation of AFGHANISTAN to crash RED ARMY.
all these so-called MULAHA- MUJHADEEN COMMANDERS are in fact , locals who , made thier money & arms depot by DRUG TRAFFIKING of HERROIEN with the help of our dear retired genrls , after the fall of soviet red army in afghanistan, from that time till now, "these unidentifyied routes" been used for supply of herroien for the creation of ETHINIC armed groups like, LASKHARS & SIPHA'S, for the defence of this unhuman & deadly bussinesses & now all "these unidentifyied routes" being used to hunt down our own "janbaz troops" who were looking to destroy these " HUBS OF TERROR & DEATHS".

 

[BATMAN]

Attacking a fully armed convoy of soldiers shows someone is a coward ? Infact its very brave and well planned operation and since they have done it second time SOP of the PA have been found wanting and someone needs a stiff kick on the butt for this debacle.

Regards

3 Indian Soldiers Injured in Kashmir Explosion
Would you dare to term it also brave?
Return regards.

 

[Always Neutral]

3 Indian Soldiers Injured in Kashmir Explosion
Would you dare to term it also brave?
Return regards.

Ofcourse. Taking on enemy combatants is brave. Putting a bomb in a crowded market or train is cowardice.

Regards

 

[BATMAN]

^^Well than, than I don't agree with your version of bravery.
IMO, bravery is risking your own life while saving others.
Now, lets get back to the topic.

 

[Conscientious objector]

Ofcourse. Taking on enemy combatants is brave. Putting a bomb in a crowded market or train is cowardice.

Regards

Agreed resisting aggression/occupation is brave especially when those resisting are fighting a well armed well trained enemy.Truly admirable

 

[batmannow]

June 7, 2009

The Taliban will ‘never be defeated’
‘Colonel Imam’, the Pakistani agent who trained Mullah Omar and the warlords to fight the Soviets, says the US must negotiate with its enemies
Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times Online - Front

 

[Conscientious objector]

June 7, 2009

The Taliban will ‘never be defeated’
‘Colonel Imam’, the Pakistani agent who trained Mullah Omar and the warlords to fight the Soviets, says the US must negotiate with its enemies
Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times Online - Front

Where is the article??

 

[waz]

Attacking a fully armed convoy of soldiers shows someone is a coward ? Infact its very brave and well planned operation and since they have done it second time SOP of the PA have been found wanting and someone needs a stiff kick on the butt for this debacle.

Regards

Do you actually bother to read posts or are you still in the habit, after all these years of blurting out? Mr not so neutral, Bahdur had promised safe passage for conveys, had an agreement with the government to abide by the writ of the people and so forth. Now he attacks a convey, who were under the impression there was a truce, you call that bravery? What else is bravery in your warped sense of logic? Attacking surrendering soldiers with white flags? This is the equivalent of a sucker punch. Yes it happened before but the perpetrators were not clear then, he also never broke the truce verbally and launched an aggressive assault.

I also find it ironic,after your post, that you label the attack on Indian troops terrorism......

 

[Xeric]

 

[Always Neutral]

Do you actually bother to read posts or are you still in the habit, after all these years of blurting out? Mr not so neutral, Bahdur had promised safe passage for conveys, had an agreement with the government to abide by the writ of the people and so forth. Now he attacks a convey, who were under the impression there was a truce, you call that bravery? What else is bravery in your warped sense of logic? Attacking surrendering soldiers with flight flags? This is the equivalent of a sucker punch. Yes it happened before but the perpetrators were not clear then, he also never broke the truce verbally and launched an aggressive assault.

I also find it ironic,after your post, that you label the attack on Indian troops iterrorism......

Where have I said the attack on Indian troops is terrorism ? Do you read before u spout ?

Any attack on legitimate targets like military convoys is well justified. Its seems you can't accept the fact that PA like all Armies is not the best or the worst. They are poorly trained in COIN and their leadership is not very exprienced in COIN ops. You say they were given safe passage but that is the stupidest of excuses for getting ones men killed.

Regards

 

[muse]

Some Pakistanis are falling victim to a old divide and rule strategy employed by Al-Qaida and their talib protege, these Pakistanis think that there are such things as "good" Talib" and "bad" Talib - if they attack U.S and Afghan they are "good", if they attack Pakistan, they are "bad" - reality is that they are one and the same, regardless of what name they may choose.

I am not suggesting that all insurgents in Pakistan belong to one group, because they do not, what I am suggesting is that there are no "good" versus "bad" insurgents, so long as they are insurgents, they are enemies of Pakistan.

Even when they put down their arms, they are enemies because they have transgressed a limit, they have crossed a line, if we do not hold them accountable, from leadership to foot soldier, we will have the same problem over and over again.

The only good insurgent is a dead one and the fact that they have USED Islam as if it were some sanitary napkin, this makes them irredeemable, they have forever turned their back on us and we must and shall dispatch them to hell.