Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle !

[BoQ77]

I want official data, @Deino claimed that picture of refurbished old airframes.
he's an expert, so I recommend source, no estimation. For example, you would claim China have 3000 after 7 years.
we may have 10,000 of Igla-S as estimated but 1000 is enough. And we don't have Tor and Buk, Pantsir-S1

I remember read JANE's report, each year China can produce 300+ new helicopters ... now WZ-9 + WZ-10 + WZ-19 might nealy 1,000x, is that more than VPA T-54 tanks ?

 

[kungfugymnast]

I want official data, @Deino claimed that picture of refurbished old airframes.
he's an expert, so I recommend source, no estimation
we may have 10,000 of Igla-S as estimated but 1000 is enough. And we don't have Tor and Buk, Pantsir-S1

Things are livelier with you around bringing everyone into debate and healthy brainstorm rather than just being yes man.

Igla manpads range and capability are quite limited rely heavily on visual & sound spotters if you don't have mobile radars. If you're fighting countries with advanced aircraft with stand off or long range missiles or powered glide bombs would out you at great disadvantage.

Looking at vietnam war, sa2 medium range missiles scored numbers of air kills. You'll need combination of pantsir, buk m, s300 defenses to work. Check vietnam war casualties sustained by NVA compared to US forces, do you count that as victory where so many died? If vietnam war happened today without Russia & China military assistance, the Americans could win the war with high tech weaponry.

Wz10 & WZ19 aren't great attack helicopters equivalent to early generation cobra and mangusta. But they could still attack tanks & enemy attack helicopters.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Strela-1 could shoot down AH-64 so nothing impossible. Igla-S only for helicopters, UAV, cruise missiles.

As you talk about Vietnam War, Vietnam War is between NVA vs US ? or vs SVN ( with support of US )?

AH64 is most armored & best attack helicopters that the stealth RAH~66 failed to defeat. Iraq, serbia forces are armed with strela & igla, they all failed to shoot down Apache. Few times apaches got into ambush took direct hits from AAAs and heavy MGs yet the Apache survived and defeated the enemy anti air units.

 

[cnleio]

I want official data, @Deino claimed that picture of refurbished old airframes.
he's an expert, so I recommend source, no estimation. For example, you would claim China have 3000 after 7 years.
we may have 10,000 of Igla-S as estimated but 1000 is enough. And we don't have Tor and Buk, Pantsir-S1

@Deino is an military expert ... but not a PLA officer, what he knew come from military forums even from Chinese military forum on internet, absolutely not from the PLA official resource ... so Deino =/= PLA.

Both WZ-10 armed helicopters, China built together ... as u see, China building new armed helicopter faster than u building tanks in Vietnam ? I have the photo of many new WZ-10 helos to prove my words but u don't.

China has 400+ WZ-9 armed helicopters, 100+ WZ-10 and 100+ WZ-19 armed helicopters, almost 700+ armed helicopters ... that's my information. I can't know detail numbers, just i have photos to prove China has more armed helicopters than u thought.

HuanQiu news ... the CCP offical news said each year China building 40x new armed helicopters, from 2011-2015 there'r 200x new armed helicopters (most r WZ-10 and WZ-19) ... this official information from HuanQiu news.
环球：中国开足马力造两战机 今年造148架飞机

Each WZ-9 / WZ-10 / WZ-19 can carry 8x HJ-8 or AKD-10 ATGMs ... there need enough tanks to face 5,000x China ATGMs.

 

[C130]

Apache armed with 16 JAGMs, Longbow Radar spots and identifies 12-14 Chinese tanks 10 to 16 kms away. pops up from cover and fires 4 JAGMS, the MMW/IIR sensor homes in on them, bang dead. just repeat this 3 more times and they wouldn't know what hit them til it was too late..

this is assuming JAGM is good as Raytheon is preaching.

 

[C130]

As if Chinese armour are dumb enough to travel w/o support?

HQ-17: A Classic Russian Missile With A New Chinese Twist | Popular Science

View attachment 259120

HQ-17 missile range is 12km and US hell fire missile is 8km. Apache, please come towards the Chinese amour column. You will be shot down even before you get near the killing range of your hell fire missiles

The Chinese armour are just practicing the worst scenario w/o air cover. In normal war on move, they will be accompany by HQ-17.

JAGM in development will have a range of 16KM and there are SDB IIs that will be dropped from F-35s to knock out such vehicles as well.

 

[cnleio]

Apache armed with 16 JAGMs, Longbow Radar spots and identifies 12-14 Chinese tanks 10 to 16 kms away. pops up from cover and fires 4 JAGMS, the MMW/IIR sensor homes in on them, bang dead. just repeat this 3 more times and they wouldn't know what hit them til it was too late..

this is assuming JAGM is good as Raytheon is preaching.

16km fire range JAGM is good, beyond MANPADS & AAG . The solution is armed helo vs armed helo using TY-90 air-to-air missile, or HQ-16 & HQ-17 launch medium-range missile on the ground. Anyways the HQ-16 & HQ-17 vehicles need accompany with PLA tanks to move.

Not only moving tank, but also fast moving speed boat !!! GBU-10 paveway II
Range : more than 14.8 km CEP 1.1m

$ 100,000 laser bomb to hit $1,000 fast boat ... i see money is burning.

 

[cnleio]

How to cheap & efficient to wipe out enemy tanks ? SADARM (末敏弹) !
Armed helo is expensive, ATGM also not cheap & one shoot one tank ... but SADARM one shoot one tanks fleet.

China has SADARM for 155mm SPG shell and 300mm MLRS rocket ... the most effective weapon to top-attack tanks fleet at once time.

China PHL-03 300mm MLRS fire range 200~300km ... below is how SADARM work by PHL-03. If necessary consider to install SADARM in DF missiles. Just need air-defence to protect SADARM launcher vehicles.

 

[Obambam]

can't help those are the ones we have fought. look at Russia's minor war with Georgia they didn't fare so well and Georgia is a weakling and China and Vietman tiff in the 70's/80's, we simply have the experience even if it's against weaklings. If we fought Russia or China I have faith we would come out victorious, assuming this doesn't happen.

When was the last time America fought alone in a war? It is hard to imagine the US going alone without its NATO friends.

War between America, Russia and China will almost never happen regardless of the garbage our medias would love to have us believe. All sides would have too much to lose since we are all capable of destroying the world multiple times over should it get out of hand, and all side goes nuclear.

War between these nations would be proxy wars at best. Similar to ones in Korea and Vietnam.

 

[cnleio]

@BoQ77 Is there anything we can discuess in this thread ? U already know PLA Armed Helicopter, ATGMs, SADARM, HQ missiles ... how to work on the battlefield.

 

[cnleio]

He could turn to wz10 & z19 helicopters vs abram tank platoon with ah64 and cobra air cover. Also wz10 and wz19 payload and survivable rate when ambushed by enemy SAMs & AAA.

LOL ... he is very busy !

 

[cnleio]

@BoQ77 @kungfugymnast

WZ-10 armed helo's cockpit

 

[cnleio]

WZ-10 pilot's HUD (head up display) and HMD (helmet mounted display)

 

[waz]

The PLA will bring their HQ-17 missiles with them. They are on tracked vehicles and would have no problem keeping up with armour. They would also have their air armour i.e. attack helicopters near by.

 

[BoQ77]

Vietnam independence movement started before ww2 during french colonial rules. Ho Chi Minh embraced communism from China southwest rebels, wanted to free his people from being slaves of french. Chinese taught Vietnamese guerilla warfare. Vietnam declared independence in 1941 after french forces lost to Japanese but then the fight turned to Japanese because Japanese committed atrocities to locals.

After ww2, ho chi minh submitted protest letter to America as head of UN that french violated Vietnam sovereign by invading and enslaving vietnam. Americans ignored just because french is white and ally, good buddy committed crime kept 1 eye shut. Vietnamese decided to fight back with full support from the people beating french down on their knees.

French created false lies and cried telling Americans that Ho chi minh rebellion attacked Vietnam and harmed the people. Americans having phobia with communism attacked vietnam without investigation. French laughed happily seeing Vietnam getting bombed and the civilians killed. So why aren't you hating french instead of Chinese? China attacked vietnam just because of Mao supporters angered with Vietnam saving cambodians from being slaughtered by Pol Pot mao wannabe.

Vietnam also adopted Western tactic, Sun Tzu book... and create their own tactic. So who teach who is not totally as "China taught Vietnamese..." That's why Vietnam is superior in tactical during 1979 invasion against China.

If you know that US ( OSS) beside Vietnam during last phase of WW2 and in our Independence Day.

You always don't understand while Vietnam could love and hate American at the same time. Same to any other.
We know well Chinese died for us, it's real. No matter what their long term strategy, but several of them died for us.

I suggest our Chinese friends create a thread to share opposite views in cooperative manner discussion about China support in Vietnam War. Only discussions could make clear anything.

320,000 China troops in Vietnam, especially at a time, is exaggerated figures. In a poor country caused by war, feeding those is a big issue,