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Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle !

Bell AH-1G Cobra (209)
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On 3rd Jan. 1970, whilst on operations over Vietnam's Tay Ninh province, this Cobra was hit by a .51 calibre bullet in the cockpit. Unfortunately the shell severed an artery in the pilot's leg and he (AC Gene Olsen) bled out before the co-pilot/gunner could reach a medivac helipad. This poignant exhibit is now on display at the American Helicopter Museum.
 
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Vietnam also adopted Western tactic, Sun Tzu book... and create their own tactic. So who teach who is not totally as "China taught Vietnamese..." That's why Vietnam is superior in tactical during 1979 invasion against China.

If you know that US ( OSS) beside Vietnam during last phase of WW2 and in our Independence Day.

You always don't understand while Vietnam could love and hate American at the same time. Same to any other.
We know well Chinese died for us, it's real. No matter what their long term strategy, but several of them died for us.

I suggest our Chinese friends create a thread to share opposite views in cooperative manner discussion about China support in Vietnam War. Only discussions could make clear anything.

320,000 China troops in Vietnam, especially at a time, is exaggerated figures. In a poor country caused by war, feeding those is a big issue,

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Talking about Americans, America in reality is good friend of China. So are all the Nato Allies, Japan and South Korea, they all love to trade and make friends with China that they welcome China tourists to visit their countries. The hostility was nothing more of politicians creating fake tension to cheat their citizens into approving big budget military spending.

Whatever the politicians said, never trust them at all. They only make a fool of the people using the people to fight and die for the their own interest. Look at spratly's conflict and diaoyu island conflct between politions from 2 countries. Politicians are cowards that they personally don't go to fight but they slur racial tensions encouraging the people to go riots attacking business & people of the country they are against. Vietnam anti~chinese riots, China's anti~Japanese riots were all orchestrated by politicians.
Bell AH-1G Cobra (209)
2692734.jpg

On 3rd Jan. 1970, whilst on operations over Vietnam's Tay Ninh province, this Cobra was hit by a .51 calibre bullet in the cockpit. Unfortunately the shell severed an artery in the pilot's leg and he (AC Gene Olsen) bled out before the co-pilot/gunner could reach a medivac helipad. This poignant exhibit is now on display at the American Helicopter Museum.

The early cobra lacked armor and would usually perform high speed dash attack having just limited HUD and small low res optronic visual for gunner. The wz19 and wz10 lacks thick armor too due to less powerful engines & limited its payload. Once China obtained the tech for more powerful engine, only then they'll come up with AH64 & MI28 level attack helicopter.
 
@kungfugymnast

Well ... 40-year ago Vietnam War =/= Modern War, u and me both clearly knew it ... 1991 "Desert Storm" of Iraqi War is the beginning of Modern War (a good example) ... AWACS/ C4ISR/ Satellites/ GPS/ Cruise Missile/ Air supremacy / Armed helos/ ATGMs/ precision-guided Bombs/ long-range air-defense Missiles all r the key to fight a modern war ... now add anti-stealth radar. When someone still show off a 40-year ago War, it only means how far behind a modern millitary force ... and pls don't wake them up ! :sleep: They beat American 40-year ago, it didn't prove today stronger than USA, they beat Chinese 30-year ago, also didn't prove today stronger than PLA ... only waste the time & lifes.
 
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GUYS ... again STOP this off-topic discussion !

I will delete each and every off-topic post if You can't stop.


Deino
 
There were a of probability that can be explained in that exercise.

1. Is the incompetent of tank company commander. If that's what happen, then he'll definitely be replaced by other.
2. They were experimenting Chopter tactic. We are all know that it is only recently that China possessed Z-10 and Z-19. So they need to create new tactics and strategy to improve their gun-ship capability. To be able to wipe out a whole tank company means that their tactic works as intended.
3. They were experimenting tank warfare. To find a new model of tactic / improvement for their tank. Being wipe out by 2 gun ships mean that their tanks need upgrade. The question is, what kind of upgrade that those Type 96 / Type 99 need.

But, to tell you the truth, that this exercise will only make them better than before. If they experimenting a tank company wipe out, then they are already aware of the weakness. We can only expect a better tactic / tank in near future.

The commanders are not incompetent, the settings of their opponents are way too strong.
Take "Stride 2014 Zhurihe" series exercise as an example: All the tank units from OPFOR simulate M1A2ESPs, and have very strong air&artillery support. The OPFOR also have absolute information advantage. During the six confrontation exercises, only one resulted in a victory.
The REDFOR encountered unimaginable difficulties, they were even hit by nukes even when they were still at the train station, causing a damage rate of 30% (2nd Armored Brigade from Nanjing Military Region), and before they fought they had to maneuver for 200+ km, facing random air strikes and chemical weapon attack along the way. There was full-band electromagnetic interference and the BeiDou System was sometimes not available. The only unit that scored a win/draw was equipped with the most advanced Type 99 MBTs, but it was a scratch battalion led by a captain (the higher ranking commanders all having been ‘killed’) that “won” the fight.

Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle
War game underlines armor's weakness

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Recently, a Chinese tank company with the Nanjing Military Region went on the attack. The mission — punch through an enemy defense, press forward and eliminate any resistance along the way.

This was, of course, an exercise. And the exercise was going well. The armored beasts busted through their objective … when two enemy helicopters armed with anti-tank missiles arrived.

Within moments, the helicopters effectively “destroyed” the whole company, according to a July 25 article in the Chinese military newspaper Jiefangjun Bao Online. The paper noted the helicopter counter-attack “set off an uproar in the brigade.”

南京军区某装甲旅实战化新课目将短板补在战前 - 中国军网

The U.S. Army’s Foreign Military Studies Office took note of the exercise in its monthly journal OE Watch. “It was … apparent that commanders were not staying abreast of recent changes in warfare,” the journal stated.

OE Watch translated the newspaper article:

When they exploited the victory and staged attacks on “remnant enemies,” two “enemy” helicopter gunships suddenly appeared and fired a number of anti-tank missiles. Facing the abrupt counter-attacks from the opponent, the Fourth Company was knocked off stride and forced into a messy condition. Multiple tanks were hit, releasing red smoke. The battle damage rate of the tanks reached 80 percent.

A typical Chinese tank company has 14 tanks. So, roughly 10 or 11 tanks wouldn’t have made it had the battle been real.

Now, this isn’t surprising. The Chinese army has little combat experience — its last war in 1979 was with Vietnam. Its training programs accordingly suffer, and the unexpected arrival of a new threat resulted in heavy “casualties.”

It’s also further ammunition for the argument that tanks are becoming obsolete. The proliferation of small, tank-busting guided missiles fired from aircraft or on the ground can quickly turn an armored column into burning metal. Not to mention the threat from artillery, which has devastated both Russian-made tanks on both sides of the war in Ukraine.

Then there’s Syria. Within the first two years of the civil war, the Syrian army lost an appalling 1,800 tanks. The counter-argument is that its tactics were terrible, with tanks sent into built-up urban areas where rebels easily blew them up with rockets and improvised mines.

Tanks work best when concentrated. One by one and without infantry support, they die. Replicate that across an entire country, and the losses add up.

Same goes for China. But Jiefangjun Bao Online, in its typically optimistic way, described some of the changes the tank company made to its training.

To solve the difficult issue of air defense for tank detachments, they selected backbone specialists to pool collective wisdom for tackling the crucial issues, invited experts from military academies to give guidance on the spot, explored a series of combat and training methods, such as “discharging foil to disrupt missiles,” “discharging smoke for concealment and dispersion.” They also added this to the training plan as routine training courses.

In a test based on engagements between opposing forces last month, the Fourth Tank Company once again encountered “enemy” helicopters. It not only preserved 70 percent of its combat power, but also expelled the “enemy” helicopters by means of concentrated fire.

So perhaps the death of the tank is an exaggeration, after all.

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Hello, please don't be surprised by Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle(at least I'm not).
Anyway, the OPFOR can use Nukes, Chemical Weapons, EMPs, and they fired 10 Guided artillery shells and hit 10 armored units at a distance of 27km, tanks that can never be destroyed when first hit by the REDFOR...
The drills are designed to shake the PLA out of its sense of peacetime complacency and to face up to its primary responsibility of fighting and winning wars.
 
There were a of probability that can be explained in that exercise.

1. Is the incompetent of tank company commander. If that's what happen, then he'll definitely be replaced by other.
2. They were experimenting Chopter tactic. We are all know that it is only recently that China possessed Z-10 and Z-19. So they need to create new tactics and strategy to improve their gun-ship capability. To be able to wipe out a whole tank company means that their tactic works as intended.
3. They were experimenting tank warfare. To find a new model of tactic / improvement for their tank. Being wipe out by 2 gun ships mean that their tanks need upgrade. The question is, what kind of upgrade that those Type 96 / Type 99 need.

But, to tell you the truth, that this exercise will only make them better than before. If they experimenting a tank company wipe out, then they are already aware of the weakness. We can only expect a better tactic / tank in near future.

Wait, you're copy pasting my post :D
 
Why Taiwan continue order AH-64 ? and upgrade their existed AH-1W to AH-1Z Viper
what's their tactic? anyone ?
AH-64A/D APACHE & AH-1Z VIPER

AH-1Z Armament
  • Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.787 in) M197 3-barreled Gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 round ammo capacity)
  • Hardpoints: Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
  • Rockets: 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 or APKWS II rockets – Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
  • Missiles:
    • AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles – 1 mounted on each wing tip station (total of 2)
    • AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles – Up to 16 missiles mounted in four 4-round M272 missile launchers, two on each wing
 
Why Taiwan continue order AH-64 ? and upgrade their existed AH-1W to AH-1Z Viper
what's their tactic? anyone ?
AH-64A/D APACHE & AH-1Z VIPER

AH-1Z Armament
  • Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.787 in) M197 3-barreled Gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 round ammo capacity)
  • Hardpoints: Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
  • Rockets: 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 or APKWS II rockets – Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
  • Missiles:
    • AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles – 1 mounted on each wing tip station (total of 2)
    • AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles – Up to 16 missiles mounted in four 4-round M272 missile launchers, two on each wing

Attack helicopters are best to take out enemy tanks especially when enemy tanks are far more superior in numbers. In case china invades taiwan, most likely taiwan fleet will not be able to hold off the landing forces. ROCA will be heavily outnumbered and their obsolete m60a3 and m48a5 are no match against the ztz99a2 and ztz96g, only to provide fire support. Super cobra, viper and Apache are best weapons to counter these tanks and troops. Aim9 gives these choppers the ability to shoot down enemy fighters and attack aircrafts. Choppers usually hide behind terrains and structures so that they could get enemy aircraft to get close and engage.

Good point i was too thinking in future they will be armed with surface to air missiles too

Tanks would need to radars, at least millimeter wave if wanted to have working SAMs. The mbt will have increased weight and height to house the missiles and radarsm Having a radar will make the tank more visible to enemy aircraft radar and warning system exposing the tank platoon positions.
 
Cananyone explain how all these latest post are related to "Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle" ???

As such stay on topic or create another tread ...


Deino
 
Guys ... You all had a kind reminder ... and now I give it as a warning !

Stay on topic or create a new one, but carrier-operations, country comparisons in the way "mine is better than yours" - besides being simply stupid - are not related to helicopter warfare !


Deino
 

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