Assassination Attempt on Imran Khan: One Killed, Multiple Injuried Including Imran Khan - 11/22

[Trango Towers]

I would like to think that the army does work just needs reforms at the top to create checks and balances.


That’s even worse. Imagine the army having to listen to the likes of Zardari / Sharif. This is what made our civilian bureaucracy the mutation that is

"I would like to think"

No words necessary

 

[Jango]

IK should have been/ should be president -
He is great at inspiring people - a populist - perhaps even selecting a team to an extent. But his overall management skills leave a lot to he desired.

But “Big B” had no business other than providing input because frankly the track record there isn’t good either.
Where IK should get away from the usual electables and enable the educated middle class he is usual populism with some really idiotic decisions made regarding educational and economic policies only because his circle is influenced by Mellisandre and her cabal.

But being a president would still leave him toothless, unable to bring any change. Jo thora bauhaut yeh lay kar aya bhi woh bhi nhn hona tha.

IK needs to tackle one issue at one time and prioritize them, rather than going full steam ahead on all fronts. The Al-Qadir university concept, self-enlightenment etc are noble and very good goals to aim for, but at this moment it isn't what we need.

You take care of the food, health, primary education first, phir ham self-actualization par bhi dehan day dain gay (to borrow a term from Mr Maslow). There's a reason Maslow's hieirarchy starts from physiological needs and safety, and self-actualization comes at the end.

As for the team, there is still room for improvement, but I hope that once he doesn't need to rely on coalition partners he can do better.

But “Big B” had no business other than providing input because frankly the track record there isn’t good either.

Yehi to sara masla hai hamara...he, a fair few of his supporters, and even some senior members on this very forum think he does have business. Because 'idara' qaumi mufad ko upar rakh raha hai. Without realizing that the meddling itself is the reason we are in this mess. You make the issue worse, even if you might have a noble intention.

 

[Ssan]

"I would like to think"

No words necessary

Yes, lol, maybe more of a whimpered prayer.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

That’s even worse. Imagine the army having to listen to the likes of Zardari / Sharif. This is what made our civilian bureaucracy the mutation that is

Other way around. We have Zardari and Sharifs because of the Army. It needs them for power and control. Civil institutions are also kept weak because of this.

 

[Menace2Society]

IK should have been/ should be president -
He is great at inspiring people - a populist - perhaps even selecting a team to an extent. But his overall management skills leave a lot to he desired.

But “Big B” had no business other than providing input because frankly the track record there isn’t good either.
Where IK should get away from the usual electables and enable the educated middle class he is usual populism with some really idiotic decisions made regarding educational and economic policies only because his circle is influenced by Mellisandre and her cabal.

Anything is better than Zardari or Sharif rule. They are a ticket to financial ruin. Have you seen the what Sindh has become? Outside of Karachi it is for sure a congo

 

[SQ8]

But being a president would still leave him toothless, unable to bring any change. Jo thora bauhaut yeh lay kar aya bhi woh bhi nhn hona tha.

IK needs to tackle one issue at one time and prioritize them, rather than going full steam ahead on all fronts. The Al-Qadir university concept, self-enlightenment etc are noble and very good goals to aim for, but at this moment it isn't what we need.

You take care of the food, health, primary education first, phir ham self-actualization par bhi dehan day dain gay (to borrow a term from Mr Maslow). There's a reason Maslow's hieirarchy starts from physiological needs and safety, and self-actualization comes at the end.

As for the team, there is still room for improvement, but I hope that once he doesn't need to rely on coalition partners he can do better.



Yehi to sara masla hai hamara...he, a fair few of his supporters, and even some senior members on this very forum think he does have business. Because 'idara' qaumi mufad ko upar rakh raha hai. Without realizing that the meddling itself is the reason we are in this mess. You make the issue worse, even if you might have a noble intention.

IK is like a (no better analogy available) like a canine at a traffic intersection. He went in and started chasing after every car without actually catching a single one.

Instead of focusing on institutional change he went on the “stolen wealth” and “ corruption “ aspect of trying to get these parties instead of purging the system of their cronies.

Basically an ill informed novice approach rather than someone who actually understood not just the system but also what he could achieve or not.

Finally, it is a known variable that any sitting government generally loses popularity because the goals promised are usually not delivered on time. Compound that with Covid and you basically had a combo of amateur mistake, poorly set expectations and then just bad luck.

The establishment then was stuck because their primary focus(their strategic calculus, balance and “don’t touch our money making”) was coming under threat With some of the anti corruption cases.
At the end, the key aspect isn’t IK or dynasty parties but letting the democratic system flourish to eventually stabilize.

Organic populism, extreme right wing or left wing destructive tendencies and so on are natural waves within a nation.

Anything is better than Zardari or Sharif rule. They are a ticket to financial ruin. Have you seen the what Sindh has become? Outside of Karachi it is for sure a congo

Karachi is already a hell hole - the PPP have made it that way.

 

[Jango]

IK is like a (no better analogy available) like a canine at a traffic intersection. He went in and started chasing after every car without actually catching a single one.

Instead of focusing on institutional change he went on the “stolen wealth” and “ corruption “ aspect of trying to get these parties instead of purging the system of their cronies.

Basically an ill informed novice approach rather than someone who actually understood not just the system but also what he could achieve or not.

Finally, it is a known variable that any sitting government generally loses popularity because the goals promised are usually not delivered on time. Compound that with Covid and you basically had a combo of amateur mistake, poorly set expectations and then just bad luck.

The establishment then was stuck because their primary focus(their strategic calculus, balance and “don’t touch our money making”) was coming under threat With some of the anti corruption cases.
At the end, the key aspect isn’t IK or dynasty parties but letting the democratic system flourish to eventually stabilize.

Organic populism, extreme right wing or left wing destructive tendencies and so on are natural waves within a nation.


Karachi is already a hell hole - the PPP have made it that way.

Agreed.

I actually do somewhat agree with the estab that choro Nawaz aur Zardari ko, focus on governance. But then what sort of message does this give across the board? So, pros and cons to both approaches.

But the main focus should be on governance.

Baki I think the institutional inertia in Pakistan (not just the estab but civil service as well) is just too much to be turned around in one term. We are stuck.

 

[Ssan]

Agreed.

I actually do somewhat agree with the estab that choro Nawaz aur Zardari ko, focus on governance. But then what sort of message does this give across the board? So, pros and cons to both approaches.

But the main focus should be on governance.

Baki I think the institutional inertia in Pakistan (not just the estab but civil service as well) is just too much to be turned around in one term. We are stuck.

You can’t have good governance without the bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is in the pockets of a few different players (N-league, maybe establishment, PPP in Sindh). Besides getting the bureaucracy to cooperate is the issue of their competence, which is practically nonexistent at this point.

 

[Ssan]

Other way around. We have Zardari and Sharifs because of the Army. It needs them for power and control. Civil institutions are also kept weak because of this.

I mean it may be a chicken and egg problem. The army benefits from having weak civilian institutions, corrupt politicians. But the fact that we have weak civilian institutions and corrupt politicians naturally creates a vacuum of incompetence that some thing has to fill.

I guess in IKs mind, enabling the judiciary would have allowed the system to weed out corrupt politicians and officials which may have eventually allowed us to build competent idarays.

The problem is the judges are just as corrupt.

 

[LeGenD]

But being a president would still leave him toothless, unable to bring any change. Jo thora bauhaut yeh lay kar aya bhi woh bhi nhn hona tha.

IK needs to tackle one issue at one time and prioritize them, rather than going full steam ahead on all fronts. The Al-Qadir university concept, self-enlightenment etc are noble and very good goals to aim for, but at this moment it isn't what we need.

You take care of the food, health, primary education first, phir ham self-actualization par bhi dehan day dain gay (to borrow a term from Mr Maslow). There's a reason Maslow's hieirarchy starts from physiological needs and safety, and self-actualization comes at the end.

As for the team, there is still room for improvement, but I hope that once he doesn't need to rely on coalition partners he can do better.



Yehi to sara masla hai hamara...he, a fair few of his supporters, and even some senior members on this very forum think he does have business. Because 'idara' qaumi mufad ko upar rakh raha hai. Without realizing that the meddling itself is the reason we are in this mess. You make the issue worse, even if you might have a noble intention.

Sir,

I would insist that the PM should be mindful of his political strengths and options and focus on governance as well as how to fix underdeveloped and/or compromised institutions of the country including Police and Judiciary.

Khan was supposed to do the obvious but he thought that he could influence global events and boss around everybody. The establishment panicked and ousted him.

Point is to not make decisions that might put you on a collision course with forces that you cannot handle.

Khan must learn from his mistakes and find new set of advisors. Sooner the better.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

I mean it may be a chicken and egg problem. The army benefits from having weak civilian institutions, corrupt politicians. But the fact that we have weak civilian institutions and corrupt politicians naturally creates a vacuum of incompetence that some thing has to fill.

I guess in IKs mind, enabling the judiciary would have allowed the system to weed out corrupt politicians and officials which may have eventually allowed us to build competent idarays.

The problem is the judges are just as corrupt.

Judiciary can't do diddly squat. Judges are individuals and part of the state. They can't handle pressure.

What you need is an intervention from the people, represented by sincere political leaders. People are the only entity more powerful than the state. I for one am all for the showdown. It will weed out cowards and hypocrites from true leadership.

 

[Ssan]

Sir,

I would insist that the PM should be mindful of his political strengths and options and focus on governance as well as how to fix underdeveloped and/or compromised institutions of the country including Police and Judiciary.

Khan was supposed to do the obvious but he thought that he could influence global events and boss around everybody. The establishment panicked and ousted him.

Point is to not make decisions that might put you on a collision course with forces that you cannot handle.

Khan must learn from his mistakes and find new set of advisors. Sooner the better.

The point was the following:- for people like me who had supported PTI since 2010, we wanted to see the corrupt put behind bars. Say what you want, this was and is important to us.

The fact that did not happen dented IK in our eyes. It became pretty clear that the establishment was dragging its feet. When the penultimate moment came for Shahbaz to be indicted which we had been waiting for for 3.5 years, suddenly the asshole became PM.

Governance is important no doubt. For good governance, you need competent and willing bureaucracy. To get competent and good bureaucracy, you need oversight and judicial checks and balances. But if the judiciary can’t even indict a clearly guilty PM, how will it check anyone else?

How can you have good governance? You will either have to buy the bureaucrats or buy whoever has them in their pockets.

Judiciary can't do diddly squat. Judges are individuals and part of the state. They can't handle pressure.

What you need is an intervention from the people, represented by sincere political leaders. People are the only entity more powerful than the state. I for one am all for the showdown. It will weed out cowards and hypocrites from true leadership.

Okay yes I agree. Populist power of the type you see engendered through IK could be a solution. The necessary ingredients here are time. It will take time to fix the system. And the population will also have to be patient through that period.

 

[Clutch]

 

[Menace2Society]

Who the f**k would shoot at your world cup winning captain? Shame on these Pakistanis, bunch of traitors

 

[ghazi52]

,.,.,
An FIR of the murder of Ahmed Raza Kasuri's father was registered in Race Course Lahore, in which Bhutto was named.
The same FR was withdrawn after martial law was imposed and Bhutto was hanged.
How will those who have started using such FIRs be registered against them?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1588872625417093120