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Asean should be wary of being drawn into Japan's dispute

Bro, where does Indonesia stand on this ? :what:

How nice of you to ask.

Indonesia Capitalizes on ASEAN Divisions
By Luke Hunt
July 25, 2012

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Taken during the conference on facilitating the entry into force of the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty.

The sidelines of the recent ASEAN ruckus offered a rare glimpse of the political and trading bloc grasping for diplomatic straws. Their failure to produce a closing statement at the summit, a first in its 45 year history, was only redeemed by some fast moving last minute footwork from the Indonesians.

A six point document was released recently which reaffirmed in general terms the “ASEAN way” in dispute resolution, in particular with China in the resource-rich South China Sea, also known as the West Philippine Sea and the East Sea in Vietnam.

Neither The Philippines nor Vietnam agreed with the statement.

In the end it was a document that saved Cambodia’s position as the current chair of ASEAN, where many have accused it of putting its own bilateral interests with China ahead of the overall and more immediate interests of the bloc.

This point not lost in a report written by Keith Loveard, a senior analyst with the Jakarta-based Concord Security, for private clients of the consulting firm. The report also notes, however, that Cambodia was not the only country acting out of self-interest in the recent marathon of diplomacy. In fact, the widely depicted protagonist of the recent saga, Indonesia, could be accused of doing the same.

“Put bluntly, Jakarta really does not care if ASEAN lives or dies,” Loveard writes.

“What is important is that Jakarta and Indonesia project themselves as important players within the region. That will serve to make it clear both to Beijing and Washington and any other player who wants to get involved in Southeast Asia that it has to treat Indonesia as a partner.”

That message was received loud and clear, with Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa embarking on a whistle-stop tour of five countries in two days before winning an agreement on a statement that, as Loveard says, papered over a wide crack.

“Indonesia is acting in its own interests, not those of ASEAN, determined to carve itself a major role in regional diplomacy with or without the organization,” the report said.

It added that while other countries’ diplomats would avoid their ideological foes, Indonesia would always maintain a friendly demeanor.

“Being friends with all parties is one of the official principles of Indonesia’s foreign policy. One of the other principles is that foreign policy should be pursued in an active manner, and that was certainly on show at the end of last week.”

It’s an important point.

The six-point statement offered the barest of rhetoric. In itself, this is not uncommon, but the heated arguments, hissy fits and air miles clocked-up to get this to the table was nothing short of a gold rush for ASEAN skeptics who believe differences among members will eventually prove insurmountable.

Loveard also noted that Cambodia remains highly sensitive to criticism of its close relationship to one of two “elephants in the room” – namely China, the other elephant being the United States.

“It is highly dependent on Chinese investment and fears losing that investment if it does not cater to Chinese demands on the South China Sea.”

That makes it an unfortunate choice as chair of ASEAN this year. Since it was its turn to lead the organization it was impossible to avoid a situation in which it was likely to have to choose between its allegiance to China and its responsibilities to ASEAN. Clearly, it preferred China to ASEAN.

“For China, Cambodia represents a malleable ally in a region where a number of other countries are leaning toward the U.S. Singapore and the Philippines are firmly in the U.S. camp; Vietnam is in talks with Washington over the use of Cam Ranh Bay by the U.S. Navy.

“For Indonesia, still carefully sitting on the fence between these two elephants, the crisis in ASEAN represented an opportunity.”

The report noted that Indonesia would remain neutral in the battle for influence between the U.S. and China and its policy of being friends to all would continue and put Jakarta in a good position to achieve maximum benefit.

“The problem it faces, however, is that if the two elephants in the room do decide that the only course of action is hostility, there will be nothing a middleweight like Indonesia will be able to do but sit on the sidelines and watch the world as we know it collapse.”

Image credit: The Offical CTBTO Photostream (Flickr)

Indonesia Capitalizes on ASEAN Divisions
 
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It is like when we saw a super smart girl in Elementary School whose had her appearances, pretty "basic" and did not spark our sexual appetite towards her, even the boys included us were cornering her and insulting her. 20 years later, she became a successful woman and undeniably beautiful, that's when we finally come to beg her love.

So poetic :D

Personally I would sit this one out, unless Japan comes with something huge like Sorry for what we done in WWII.

Also isn't Abe like some WWII denier or something? Supporting him would be a slap in the face.

If it was former Prime Minister Hatoyama that's at least worth a though, least he a respectable person
 
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Bro, where does Indonesia stand on this ? :what:

Uniquely, Indonesia does not stand on one of the sides available for ASEAN countries nowadays. Indonesia is only keeping the disputes to not to be destabilizing the region and especially Indonesia itself, because actually territorial disputes are only for those who are taking claims. Indonesia's dispute with China over Natuna Island in S.C.S was solved before 2000, therefore there's no reason for Indonesia to push forward and become directly involved. Besides, China is becoming Indonesia's largest market for export and undoubtedly, becoming a huge trade partner. Losing that kind of economic relation is not something that Indonesia will sacrifice to only be involved in a matter that Indonesia is actually having no part. Indonesia is best at keeping neutralism while simultaneously trying to bond ASEAN voices into one voice.
 
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I understand that, Vietnam is not siding with China in this matters, and so is Cambodia or Laos. And that's why I said "had been picking up" not had picked up. Because, without doubt, both Countries (Cambodia and Laos) have stared to support China although it is still minor supports like nullifying agreements between ASEAN nations or in a way of providing accesses and bases for future foreign military interventions like Vietnam and Philippines. That's when the dilemma (ASEAN being forced to take sides) is actually beginning.
We don't need that agreement,too and we're still the strongest forces with dominant present in SCS(). nullifying agreements between ASEAN make No harm to us when it's good for Cambodia to get some payment from China just by few hollow words.
northeast said:
Special brother?You mean geneticly or culturally?
Laos supported VN against China in 1979. Cambodia Defence Minister Gen. Tea Banh is pro-VN , Gen. Meas Sophea(Vietnamese-Cambodian) is Cambodia Army Chief.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/227105-vietnam-laos-cambodia-2.html

They're special coz they army are always support VN from now.
 
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So poetic :D

Personally I would sit this one out, unless Japan comes with something huge like Sorry for what we done in WWII.

Also isn't Abe like some WWII denier or something? Supporting him would be a slap in the face.

If it was former Prime Minister Hatoyama that's at least worth a though, least he a respectable person

Hahaha as I said, we are begging for that beautiful woman, there is no way no how we beg her to apologize us. That's just reminding her of how horrible we were towards her in the past. In order to gain her love, we have to show her, our "good motives" and our eminences, like how handsome and gentle we are, and how successful we are nowadays in order to have her heart.

Abe is actually doing the same thing, he is releasing Myanmar's debt, offering more investment to ASEAN countries, and indirectly showing how "fruitful" for ASEAN members to chose Japan. Do you think with Abe apologizing for what his country did will elevate his bargaining power? No, in fact, none of ASEAN members officially demand an apologize from Japan right?
 
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It is like when we saw a super smart girl in Elementary School whose had her appearances, pretty "basic" and did not spark our sexual appetite towards her, even the boys included us were cornering her and insulting her. 20 years later, she became a successful woman and undeniably beautiful, that's when we finally come to beg her love.
I don't think VN will side with Japan,too. Basically, we're still a communist nation, if communist China fall, then so do we, and our plan to control Kra canal in Thailand will go to burst,too. So, we only help Japan to Defend against China's attack, not siding with her to harm China.
 
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I don't think VN will side with Japan,too. Basically, we're still a communist nation, if communist China fall, then so do we, and our plan to control Kra canal in Thailand will go to burst,too. So, we only help Japan to Defend against China's attack, not siding with her to harm China.

I understand, by the way I was using this analogy to picture Japan's condition now and its irony to seek supports from countries that had been invaded by his dad or grand dad. Japan is "the boys, us" and the "super smart beautiful girl/woman" is ASEAN, read again, my analogy is not about about ASEAN picking up sides, it's about Abe ironically wanting ASEAN support which his country invaded it 71 years ago. Although I see no wrong with that, it is just ironic, you know, like Drama in TV.
 
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Hahaha as I said, we are begging for that beautiful woman, there is no way no how we beg her to apologize us. That's just reminding her of how horrible we were towards her in the past. In order to gain her love, we have to show her, our "good motives" and our eminences, like how handsome and gentle we are, and how successful we are nowadays in order to have her heart.

Abe is actually doing the same thing, he is releasing Myanmar's debt, offering more investment to ASEAN countries, and indirectly showing how "fruitful" for ASEAN members to chose Japan. Do you think with Abe apologizing for what his country did will elevate his bargaining power? No, in fact, none of ASEAN members officially demand an apologize from Japan right?

Nah, it'll be nice if they do though lol. Maybe we can make them pay us via investments and get an apology lol
 
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We don't need that agreement,too and we're still the strongest forces with dominant present in SCS(). nullifying agreements between ASEAN make No harm to us when it's good for Cambodia to get some payment from China just by few hollow words.

I hope so, it is good for the whole ASEAN if its good members like Vietnam are dealing with China without mentioning direct foreign powers presence.
 
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I don't think VN will side with Japan,too. Basically, we're still a communist nation, if communist China fall, then so do we, and our plan to control Kra canal in Thailand will go to burst,too. So, we only help Japan to Defend against China's attack, not siding with her to harm China.

Finally we got some rational words from you guys. :coffee:

This is the dispute between the communists, but the evil capitalists are our common enemy.

That's why we rather choose to fight Japan.
 
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Nah, it'll be nice if they do though lol. Maybe we can make them pay us via investments and get an apology lol

Lol, investment is only making them fat in the end, how about direct financial aid and apology? It is 100% favoring us though.. Lol :yahoo:
 
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I hope so, it is good for the whole ASEAN if its good members like Vietnam are dealing with China without mentioning direct foreign powers presence.
BCz China dragged powers presence to the war between VN-China first (in 1979, China got support from US to attack VN), so now, we have to let China taste their own medicine.

I'm sure that it will be No foreign forces when war between VN-China happen. We're proud of our well-trained and loyal soldiers so we will defeat any enemies by ourselves even they're 30 times bigger than us.
ChineseTiger1986 said:
Finally we got some rational words from you guys.

This is the dispute between the communists, but the evil capitalists are our common enemy.

That's why we rather choose to fight Japan.
1979 was the dispute between the communists,too, and u dragged US in to sanction us, so, now is the time for us to pay back, comrader

You can chose to fight with VN again, but just like in 1979 u have No chance to win:coffee:
 
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1979 was the dispute between the communists,too, and u dragged US in to sanction us, so, now is the time for us to pay back, comrader:coffee:

Because our rivalry with USSR got out of control, that's why both side did some crazy stuffs. :coffee:

But today is different, only four communist nations remaining in this world.

We don't really mind if you wanna drag Russia or India to balance our influence in SCS, since they are not our most dangerous enemies, but USA is our biggest foe now, if you wanna side with them to backstab us, then this is totally unacceptable.
 
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Because our rivalry with USSR got out of control, that's why both side did some crazy stuffs. :coffee:

But today is different, only four communist nations remaining in this world.

We don't really mind if you wanna drag Russia or India to balance our influence in SCS, since they are not our most dangerous enemies, but USA is our biggest foe now, if you wanna side with them to backstab us, then this is totally unacceptable.
But we want to attack Itu-aba the biggest with fresh water isl,we need to have an agreement from US to make sure that U.S wont counter-attack or sanction us .

We cant let ltu-aba fall into ur hands,once day maybe TW will join back with China again,so we must take it before TW unite with China.

If u call our attack at Itu-aba is' backstab',then,we have no choice but making u feel upset:coffee:
 
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But we want to attack Itu-aba the biggest with fresh water isl,we need to have an agreement from US to make sure that U.S wont counter-attack or sanction us .

We cant let ltu-aba fall into ur hands,once day maybe TW will joint back with China again,so we must take it before TW unite with China.

If u call our attack at Itu-aba,then,we have no choice but making u feel upset:coffee:

If you wanna keep playing the game, that's fine, we should keep playing it with no bleeding.

But don't think that the downfall of China will bring you more freedom.

We once decided to repair our broken relationship with USSR since 1989, then the West knew it, they planned the color revolution against us in Tiananmen Square. Meanwhile we didn't know that the pro-liberal right-wing venom had spread so fast in USSR.

But without the sacrifice of USSR, none of us could realize the dangerous nature of the western democracy, and today's China is responsible for the survival of the Communist World, whether you like us or not, you need us for the sake of your own survival. :coffee:
 
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