What's new

ASAT and financial capability for anti sanction Diplomatic leverage?

@KRAIT as i see it, it's the last frontier of a ABM systems, key challenges:

1. Range - Targeting a satellite in GEO (major communication satellites are present in GEO instead of LEO).
2. Precision - Targeting a satellite which is of few meters diameters revolving with the speed of Earth requires enormous precision. If we target a missile on a target on Earth, mind you, the target is either immovable or is of very slow speed compared to a satellite.
3. Change of medium - from Atmosphere to Vaccum.
4. Last thing, saying that the satellites are easy targets as they follow known paths is BS as they can also perform maneuvers by there on-board engines being fired to change there orbits, this make the task even more difficult.

As is the case, only US has been able to MASTER the art by R&D & regular testing in last 2-3 decades.

Few correction
1>Targeting in GEO is nearly impossible so far, as all ASAT test are done in LEO. And also a mass vessel will needed for GEO.
2>Even satellites can be deflected by natural powers like drag, earth's irregularity & gravitational force of extra terrestrial planets.

So far every test was done in stimulated control environment. Thats mean path of SAT & missile was forced to intercept each other in a point. Still in real war one need to prove there capability. Because even tracking of SAt is impossible especially if it not your.:Tongue:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This thread creator forgot few things:

Are you with us or against us? We will turn you into stone age!

OBL got killed in Abbotabad, Pakistan could not do anything to USA. They came they conquered.

Drones are still violating Pakistan's sovergnity !

Where is Pakistan?

ASAT is a tall order for Pakistan, something that Korea del Norte does not possese.
And China is not going to part with such high technology with Pakistan. Pakistan does not have a operational SLV, China wont share this technology with Pakistan, so that Pakistan can undercut satellite launch price and compete with China in the future. China is already wary of Pakistan who did not inform it of OBL's Presence in Pakistan despite being a all weather friend. Two years ago China just contributed 5 million dollars to Pakistan's kity among Democratic friends of Pakistan - so much for all weather ally, whose friendship is considered deeper than the oceans, higher than the mountains with Pakistan.

On the other hand, Pakistan has just 11 billion dollars of Forex to work with. Pakistan has fiscal deficit, balance of payment deficit and most of its Public sector units are in the red.

If Pakistan does what is told in this thread, it would be a miracle.

But are not miracles hard to come by?
 
Does Pakistan has the ability to make a kill vehicle of this caliber?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Few correction
Including yours...

1>Targeting in GEO is nearly impossible so far,...
Technically difficult. But not impossible. Not even 'nearly' impossible.

...as all ASAT test are done in LEO.
We have gone beyond testings. The US actually completed 'proof of concept' when we destroyed USA-193. Yes, it was in Low Earth Orbit, but the intention was to prove that the ABM SM-3 could be used as an ASAT.

And also a mass vessel will needed for GEO.
No idea what this mean...

2>Even satellites can be deflected by natural powers like drag, earth's irregularity & gravitational force of extra terrestrial planets.
Only up to a point.

Reboost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reboost is the process of boosting the altitude of an artificial satellite, to increase the time until its orbit will decay and it re-enters the atmosphere. For example, the International Space Station has been given a reboost by the Space Shuttle, the Progress resupply vehicle, and the Automated Transfer Vehicle when docked, because it is in a low Earth orbit which experiences significant atmospheric drag.
There is an inverse relationship between orbital altitude and reboost frequency. Chiefly, the higher the orbit altitude, the less frequent the need for reboost.

Low Earth orbit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...the commonly accepted definition for LEO is between 160 kilometers (99 mi) (with a period of about 88 minutes) and 2,000 kilometers (1,200 mi) (with a period of about 127 minutes) above the Earth's surface.
A 200 km altitude LEO requires a reboost once every few weeks, more like an orbital maintenance boost once a calendar month. Up to 400 km altitude, which is still technically LEO, that interval increases to once every few months, more like once every 6 months.

A geosync orbit is about 42,000 km altitude, which means practically no reboosts are needed at all. This is not the same as an orbital adjustment, which mean the satellite make minor changes to compensate for other than orbital decay reasons that are related to atmospheric drag.

So far every test was done in stimulated control environment.
Nothing wrong with that. But we did more than laboratory testing.

Thats mean path of SAT & missile was forced to intercept each other in a point. Still in real war one need to prove there capability. Because even tracking of SAt is impossible especially if it not your.:Tongue:
An anti-satellite weapon IS a satellite. Just like a ballistic missile and the interceptor are both missiles.

There are two ways to have an intercept: A head on collision or a tail chase collision.

Both are technically interceptions. It is a common laymen misconception that an 'interception' is restricted to head on.

Regarding an anti-satellite weapon, it can be co-orbital or direct ascent. This goes for either tail chase or head on collision.

The US is not interested in the co-orbital solution.

A co-orbital solution is where the ASAT maneuvers into the exact same orbital path, including altitude, as the target. If the interception is tail chase, then the ASAT must have higher orbital speed than the target. If the ASAT placed itself in front of the target, then it must be in a lower speed. In either case, the higher speed differential the more effective the destruction.

Moons of Saturn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Moons of Saturn

...two mutually co-orbital moons...
S1 and S3 are not exactly the same orbit but their orbits are so close together that if it were not for gravitational forces they would collide.

Cassini Solstice Mission: Janus
The slight velocity difference means the inner moon catches up to the other in approximately four Earth years. At that time, the gravity interaction between the two pulls the inner moon faster, moving it to a higher orbit. At the same time, the catching-up inner moon drags the leading outer moon backward so that it drops into a lower orbit. The result is that the two exchange places; the nearest they approach is within 15,000 kilometers (6,200 miles). The next trade is in 2010.
So co-orbiting satellites DO OCCUR in nature.

For a functional ASAT system, the US is interested in the direct ascent solution. It mean the weapon is guided towards the target and make a straight line for it. This is much sooner towards destruction than the time consuming co-orbital method but it is more technically difficult.

ASM-135 ASAT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The United States developed direct ascent anti-satellite weapons.
The direct ascent method is more flexible in that is is launch location independent, meaning the rocket does not require an ideal Earth location to achieve the intended orbit. The interceptor can even be launched in mid-air as proved by the F-15 launch of the ASM-135. The interceptor warhead just need to have enough speed for either head on or tail chase collision.

Basically, the direct ascent method involve calculating a series of future locations of the target satellite in its orbit, then launch the interceptor rocket towards the most ideal point in that series of future locations. It is ideal for 'time sensitive' situations where a target must be destroyed at the soonest opportunity, whereas with the co-orbital method, the interceptor rocket must achieve the same orbit as the target satellite, releases the interceptor warhead, and either let it catches up to the target or the interceptor warhead places itself directly in the target's path. Depending on orbit, it can take days to destroy a target.
 
^^^ Thanks Gambit..
FBI may get you for 'helping' us develop ASAT :P
 
Gawadar port's expansion and used for chinese export will buy much diplomatic leverage.
Later Pakistan can go ahead with Iran gas pipeline without caring much..
 
Gawadar port's expansion and used for chinese export will buy much diplomatic leverage.
Later Pakistan can go ahead with Iran gas pipeline without caring much..

So by giving Gwader port to China, Pakistan has the political leverage to conduct ASAT operations on US/EU satellites?

It can not be 3 trillions, China's total FOREX is 3.2 Trillions.
Its 2 trillions.

Majority of the forex reserves are being held in terms of bonds.
 
So by giving Gwader port to China, Pakistan has the political leverage to conduct ASAT operations on US/EU satellites?



Majority of the forex reserves are being held in terms of bonds.

Most of you comment without reading the thread propperly.
Original post should be read before posting random comments.
 
Most of you comment without reading the thread propperly.
Original post should be read before posting random comments.

I have went through all the posts, and your assumptions about China supporting Pakistan under all circumstances is a pure hogwash. Eventually they'll have to hide their face later on to UN council, as they're doing now in case of North Korea.
 
I have went through all the posts, and your assumptions about China supporting Pakistan under all circumstances is a pure hogwash. Eventually they'll have to hide their face later on to UN council, as they're doing now in case of North Korea.

The thread discusses more than one scenario.
ASAT being one option in case of war.If attacked,and if have ASAT then Pakistan will be able to bring war to 'their home' by disrupting lives of their people.. That will make war much more expensive for them in psychological and political terms.

Other better options are to increase international trade via Pakistan..
A train line running from Karakoram to the Arabian sea will have central asian countries and even Russia exporting , importing their goods via Pakistan .
So a sanction on PK will disrupt lives of people of Russia,central asia and china...as the goods they used to get cheaper via Pakistan,either will stop coming or will become expensive.
Again increasing the diplomatic and financial costs of war or sanctions on PK-
 
I dont see why Pakistan cannot overtake the US technologically. It is do-able, and the US is in recession while Pakistan is experiancing a boom.

Remember how the "backwards" Soviets surprised the world with the firt man in space? The world is full of surprises.
 
On military grounds,Pakistan cannot threaten world powers similarly as North Korea.
What Pakistan can and should do is to attain ASAT capabilities.
In case diplomacy fails.Pakistan should be able to shoot downor disrupt/jam... commercial satellites.
That way Pakistan will have to ability to cripple their stock market trade,banking and general communications,posing a threat of losses of hundreds of billions of dollars
.

I think under the current USA cyber-doctrine that equates to full scale retaliation by US
 
Sooner or later much of world's communication and other needs will be served by chinese satellites,as western satellites get old and expensive to replace.
.

Which Govt in its right mind will rely on a foreign nation over satellites that are of strategic importance? despite the cost.
 
I'm giving out a brilliant idea for making a ASAT weapons for rouge nations. :P ... The thing what Safriz wants is to destroy the satellites around the orbit which would affect the world economies to deter them. This can be done by putting the 1000s of mini bombs into a simple rocket and just shoot in the space and once it has reached the required altitude just explode the thing. Creating the deberis of mini bombs(achieving this not hard, even NK/Pakistan or actually pretty much any country which can make big rockets) can have this if they put their mind to it LOL, and can make 100s of these missiles for much much lower cost) :P . Now imagine if one fires around 100 such rockets, spreading 1000000s of mini bombs with a simple proximity fuse sensor. The only issue is that the country who starts it needs to do so within hours(firing those 100s of rocket), as they won't be existing on the world map after a few hours of first launch to see the fruits of their missiles. And trust me the no one(leaving out farting region) in the whole world would condemn it, they will just show regrets.

Now think of any global war after 10-20 years down the line, the above scenario made by me could actually very well be true, as their will always be a country who is technologically ahead of other(lets just assume US Axis, technologically strong in this field), so what the other nations (lets say Chines or Russian axis) would do if they can't make lots of precision ASAT due to economic/technological reasons or due to the heavy loss in preemptive/initial strike. They may prefer this type option as the war prolongs, as to deny the enemy of the same capability(and probably the most important one if only the one has) but you can't have.

P.S. I'm the first..Don't steal the credit for my concept/invention.. :P
 
Back
Top Bottom