AS USUAL ITS AFGHANIs

[padamchen]

First i would like to applaud your quest for knowledge.

This is a very long topic, i will try to summarize as best i can and break the discussion into to parts. Pukhtoons and Balochis.

NWFP (now known as KPK) was conquered by the Sikh in the early 1800s and became part of Punjab after that the British conquered it and were under their control for almost 2 centuries. During this time we got acclimated as part of British India. And when the referendum was called for Partition, the Pukhtoons voted to join Pakistan. And now 70 years as part of Pakistan KPK has prospered significantly mean while Afghanistan has gone from bad to worse. So basically we choose to be part of Pakistan and weren't forced into joining.

As for FATA joining Pakistan as it wasn't really part of British India. The Jirga had decided to join Pakistan instead of Afghanistan.

Secondly Pukhtoons have not been punjabified. we have been urdufied. Pukhtoons have now totally integrated as part of Pakistani fabric. There are more Pukhtoons in Karachi than any other city in the whole world. We are happy because we do not get discriminated against and thats why you will find Pukhtoons in every field from military to sports.

Its the similar situation with Balochis, majority of Balochistan except the Princely state of Kalat had voted to join Pakistan. The map below shows the Princely state of Kalat (RED) with-in Balochistan

View attachment 419216

Now after almost 70 years Balochis have integrated into Pakistan but they havn't had the same opportunities to grow as NWFP due to their corrupt Sardars and incompetent/visionless leaders of Pakistan, but thats a discussion for another day.

As for your statement that Balochistan should be part of Iran, i do not agree and the reasons that Pakistan has twice as much land of Balochistan (347,190 km²) compared to the Irani state of Sistan & Baluchestan (181,785 km²) and Iran itself is facing issues of Balochis wanting independence. Also even Afghanistan has a small territory of Balochistan (Province of Nimruz, Southern Helmend and Southern Kandahar).

Hope that helps with your quest to understanding the situation.

You say you Pashtun voted to join Pakistan.

Then what is Afghanistan and it's Pashtun?

How did the line get drawn.

And what was the basis of partition of Pashtun.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Imad.Khan]

You say you Pashtun voted to join Pakistan.

Then what is Afghanistan and it's Pashtun?

How did the line get drawn.

And what was the basis of partition of Pashtun.

Cheers, Doc

There was an article that had all the information in detail, i will try and find it and then tag you.

In short the Pukhtoons of NWFP and Balochistan voted to join Pakistan. The Pukhtoons in Afghanistan didn't get that chance. I was having a discussion with a guy from Afghanistan and i asked him if today there was referendum and all Pukhtoons from Pakistan and Afghanistan were asked to vote to either join Pakistan or Afghanistan what would be the outcome. He had replied with current situation in Afghanistan the result would be to join Pakistan and also because there are more Pukhtoons in Pakistan than in Afghanistan.

His answer negated the stance of Afghanistan that Pakistani Pukhtoons want to join them.

 

[padamchen]

There was an article that had all the information in detail, i will try and find it and then tag you.

In short the Pukhtoons of NWFP and Balochistan voted to join Pakistan. The Pukhtoons in Afghanistan didn't get that chance. I was having a discussion with a guy from Afghanistan and i asked him if today there was referendum and all Pukhtoons from Pakistan and Afghanistan were asked to vote to either join Pakistan or Afghanistan what would be the outcome. He had replied with current situation in Afghanistan the result would be to join Pakistan and also because there are more Pukhtoons in Pakistan than in Afghanistan.

His answer negated the stance of Afghanistan that Pakistani Pukhtoons want to join them.

But Afghanistan is a multi ethnic nation state just as Pakistan is.

Or India.

I understand the rationale for the partition of India. But not getting the basis for Pashtun or Baloch cleavage.

Cheers, Doc

 

[HAIDER]

Still Pakistanis named all there missiles on names of Afghani kings like Babur,Ghori,Ghazni etc...

all were Pro Pakistani ..

 

[Mian Babban]

NWFP (now known as KPK) was conquered by the Sikh in the early 1800s and became part of Punjab after that the British conquered it and were under their control for almost 2 centuries. During this time we got acclimated as part of British India. And when the referendum was called for Partition, the Pukhtoons voted to join Pakistan. And now 70 years as part of Pakistan KPK has prospered significantly mean while Afghanistan has gone from bad to worse. So basically we choose to be part of Pakistan and weren't forced into joining.

.

In my personal opinion , there were two other major factors which played a great role in the integration of North-West-Frontier into British India ;

1- Rise of Deobandi Islam in North-West-Frontier in early 20th century.

2- Khudai Khidmatgar movement :They played Indian politics and allied themselves with Indian National Congress, that Pashtuns are citizens of British India. Bacha Khan participated in Khilafat movement and Hijrat movement as a citizen of British India. According to autobiography of Mualana Abdul Kalam Azad (India wins freedom), Bacha Khan was stunned when he heard that Gandhi had agreed with Mountbatten about partitioning India. Khan brothers were against the partition of India. They were expecting that they would be in united India.

And you have already pointed out that qibla of N.W.F was directed towards Lahore darbar first and then Delhi for a century and half, so influences of Kabul on them had waned. Due to this integration, Muslim league was able to gain influence in the Frontier.

The case of FATA was different. They were independent during the reign of Ahmad Shah Abdali and his successors. They never came under Sikh rule and after 1848 they maintained relations with both British government and Kabul. When Pakistan offered them the same status as under British government, they accepted it with the exception of some elements in Waziristan (Faqir of IPI who did not enjoy the support of local Maliks) and Khyber (Sarista movement of Afridis).

 

[Imad.Khan]

But Afghanistan is a multi ethnic nation state just as Pakistan is.

Or India.

I understand the rationale for the partition of India. But not getting the basis for Pashtun or Baloch cleavage.

Cheers, Doc

Exactly modern day Afghanistan is multi-ethnic nation by pushing for all Pukhtoon lands it will alienate its own non-Pukhtoon people. Also as i said earlier I will be happy if the durand line is abolished and all Afghanistan and Baloch lands are merged into Pakistan.

Anyway i found this article which is not as detailed but still does the job

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/why-the-durand-line-matters/

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Still Pakistanis named all there missiles on names of Afghani kings like Babur,Ghori,Ghazni etc...

First 2 of them Established kingdoms here in India and 3rd one was pro Islamic . It means non of them anti Islam or Pakistan.
And you also need to look at where they came from and Why?

Most Afghanistanis have good relationship with Pakistanis because of shared religion and culture.
Its just a few bad apples on both sides of the Durand line.

Please give me the name of Those Afghanis who have good relation with Pakistan . You can give me names from last 200 years . And what culture , last time I check there are many differences in Afghanis and Pakistani culture , do you want to say all those In-Islamic things are common day practice in Pakistan "As Culture"?
They robbed and killed many who left British India ! All Muslims and want free or azad life . They did not accepted Pakistan , They still don't take DL as border . They killed our First PM ............ They bring AK-47 and drug culture in Pakistan , and some other unethical which I don't want to name here, dam list is to dam long.
Don't think as Pashtun , Think as Pakistani.....................................
@Imad.Khan , I don't want Afghanistan , I only want to see my Pakistan clean , they are not Pakistani , That's it, Kick them all out and seal the border..........................................................................................................

 

[Acknowledge]

Still Pakistanis named all there missiles on names of Afghani kings like Babur,Ghori,Ghazni etc...

You have to understand.
Pakistanis have zero great names from their land. All Kings/Conquerors/Empires were either Afghan/Central Asian or Indian.

They have nothing to be proud of in their history. What else will they do except for appropriating other's names.

 

[cocomo]

I already explained it in my earlier post. We have been neighbors for millennia.

Till you cut off and got created in between.

They need help. I'm not saying you cannot help. You are right there. No one can stop you.

But so can we.

Cheers, Doc

Modern Indian state is bequeath to Hindus by British. Before that you have been slaves for a 1000 years. You don't get to claim ownership of a state where Hindus were slaves unless you are ready to acknowledge your place.

 

[padamchen]

Modern Indian state is bequeath to Hindus by British. Before that you have been slaves for a 1000 years. You don't get to claim ownership of a state where Hindus were slaves unless you are ready to acknowledge your place.

In my early days, a few brain cells used to die every time I read such a post.

As enough brain cells died, I began to learn how to think like a Pakistani.

Then all was well again.

Cheers, Doc

 

[ashok mourya]

Modern Indian state is bequeath to Hindus by British. Before that you have been slaves for a 1000 years. You don't get to claim ownership of a state where Hindus were slaves unless you are ready to acknowledge your place.

Before British rule Hindus and Sikhs control major portion of India.Its a reward for Pakistanis that Britishers took over it from Hindus.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Taking over Afghan rouge region is answer to permenent peace

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Fence the Border, Sentry guns. Thermal seekers. Trial and deportation for all Illegal immigrants and refugees.

That can solve the problem.

 

[Imad.Khan]

First 2 of them Established kingdoms here in India and 3rd one was pro Islamic . It means non of them anti Islam or Pakistan.
And you also need to look at where they came from and Why?


Please give me the name of Those Afghanis who have good relation with Pakistan . You can give me names from last 200 years . And what culture , last time I check there are many differences in Afghanis and Pakistani culture , do you want to say all those In-Islamic things are common day practice in Pakistan "As Culture"?
They robbed and killed many who left British India ! All Muslims and want free or azad life . They did not accepted Pakistan , They still don't take DL as border . They killed our First PM ............ They bring AK-47 and drug culture in Pakistan , and some other unethical which I don't want to name here, dam list is to dam long.
Don't think as Pashtun , Think as Pakistani.....................................
@Imad.Khan , I don't want Afghanistan , I only want to see my Pakistan clean , they are not Pakistani , That's it, Kick them all out and seal the border..........................................................................................................

Doesnt matter if you dont want Afghanistan but labelling all Afghan bad for the crimes of a few is wrong. Read your statement again and tell me what difference is there between your and Pauline Hansons statements

 

[CriticalThought]

First i would like to applaud your quest for knowledge.

This is a very long topic, i will try to summarize as best i can and break the discussion into to parts. Pukhtoons and Balochis.

NWFP (now known as KPK) was conquered by the Sikh in the early 1800s and became part of Punjab after that the British conquered it and were under their control for almost 2 centuries. During this time we got acclimated as part of British India. And when the referendum was called for Partition, the Pukhtoons voted to join Pakistan. And now 70 years as part of Pakistan KPK has prospered significantly mean while Afghanistan has gone from bad to worse. So basically we choose to be part of Pakistan and weren't forced into joining.

As for FATA joining Pakistan as it wasn't really part of British India. The Jirga had decided to join Pakistan instead of Afghanistan.

Secondly Pukhtoons have not been punjabified. we have been urdufied. Pukhtoons have now totally integrated as part of Pakistani fabric. There are more Pukhtoons in Karachi than any other city in the whole world. We are happy because we do not get discriminated against and thats why you will find Pukhtoons in every field from military to sports.

Its the similar situation with Balochis, majority of Balochistan except the Princely state of Kalat had voted to join Pakistan. The map below shows the Princely state of Kalat (RED) with-in Balochistan

View attachment 419216

Now after almost 70 years Balochis have integrated into Pakistan but they havn't had the same opportunities to grow as NWFP due to their corrupt Sardars and incompetent/visionless leaders of Pakistan, but thats a discussion for another day.

As for your statement that Balochistan should be part of Iran, i do not agree and the reasons that Pakistan has twice as much land of Balochistan (347,190 km²) compared to the Irani state of Sistan & Baluchestan (181,785 km²) and Iran itself is facing issues of Balochis wanting independence. Also even Afghanistan has a small territory of Balochistan (Province of Nimruz, Southern Helmend and Southern Kandahar).

Hope that helps with your quest to understanding the situation.

Btw, *LOVE* the 'challi' (salt roasted corn) by dear Pathan Bhai. *NOTHING* in the world beats Pathan Bhai's salt roasted corn topped with lemon juice and red chillies. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

In my personal opinion , there were two other major factors which played a great role in the integration of North-West-Frontier into British India ;

1- Rise of Deobandi Islam in North-West-Frontier in early 20th century.

2- Khudai Khidmatgar movement :They played Indian politics and allied themselves with Indian National Congress, that Pashtuns are citizens of British India. Bacha Khan participated in Khilafat movement and Hijrat movement as a citizen of British India. According to autobiography of Mualana Abdul Kalam Azad (India wins freedom), Bacha Khan was stunned when he heard that Gandhi had agreed with Mountbatten about partitioning India. Khan brothers were against the partition of India. They were expecting that they would be in united India.

And you have already pointed out that qibla of N.W.F was directed towards Lahore darbar first and then Delhi for a century and half, so influences of Kabul on them had waned. Due to this integration, Muslim league was able to gain influence in the Frontier.

The case of FATA was different. They were independent during the reign of Ahmad Shah Abdali and his successors. They never came under Sikh rule and after 1848 they maintained relations with both British government and Kabul. When Pakistan offered them the same status as under British government, they accepted it with the exception of some elements in Waziristan (Faqir of IPI who did not enjoy the support of local Maliks) and Khyber (Sarista movement of Afridis).

Let's not forget Reshmi Romal Tehrik (Silk Handkerchief Movement). Muslims from sub-continent have a long history of providing tacit support to our Afghan brothers. The Reshmi Romal wasn't successful per se, but the lessons learnt by Afghans are being applied today. They got duped once into leaving Jihad. For eternity they have learnt the lesson that leaving Jihad is falling into the enemy's trap. Never gonna happen. Insha Allah.

First 2 of them Established kingdoms here in India and 3rd one was pro Islamic . It means non of them anti Islam or Pakistan.
And you also need to look at where they came from and Why?


Please give me the name of Those Afghanis who have good relation with Pakistan . You can give me names from last 200 years . And what culture , last time I check there are many differences in Afghanis and Pakistani culture , do you want to say all those In-Islamic things are common day practice in Pakistan "As Culture"?
They robbed and killed many who left British India ! All Muslims and want free or azad life . They did not accepted Pakistan , They still don't take DL as border . They killed our First PM ............ They bring AK-47 and drug culture in Pakistan , and some other unethical which I don't want to name here, dam list is to dam long.
Don't think as Pashtun , Think as Pakistani.....................................
@Imad.Khan , I don't want Afghanistan , I only want to see my Pakistan clean , they are not Pakistani , That's it, Kick them all out and seal the border..........................................................................................................

Well, look what we have here. Non-Muslim Hindus are allowing Afghans to come into their colleges and get education, and a fellow Muslim is denigrating them on a public forum. Get this: they are our Muslim brothers, they deserve a chance at peace, and the only way to give them peace is to free them of the machinations of imperialist powers. The only way to achieve that is to take them under our Nuclear Umbrella, and invest in their development. Once they are educated and stable, all of us will become a power to reckon with. This is the only way forward if you want Pakistan to survive the next 100 years.