As an Arab, the Middle East’s reaction to Orlando left me speechless…

[anon45]

Nope
Never gonna happen.
We can ignore them in the west over here nope
We don't want our children to even consider such things.
We can't accept that our morals don't allow it.
You are free to do what you want even if it looks like you're smoking weed but you are free to do anything you like but to expect others to do the same is wrong.
It goes against every instinct of a human being ( won't count the west we all know you're aliens )

Your morals sound like extremely fragile things that won't survive human progress.

he has answered that for you.. why you want to force a thought down his throat? he said that the killing was wrong.

leave it at that for now and continue with a slow but gradual teaching.. the mindset change you have in mind will take a while./.. it cant be rushed

Fair enough, I have no illusion that I won't change his mind, but I dialed back my disdain in my reply in consideration of your views.

 

[Arsalan]

you are right about our hell. and there is no excuse for that.. but it is worth showing the mirror to Christian apologists who show mock shock over Muslim homophobia.

but I cant stop
sorry its my right to state the obvious. you guys have systematically destroyed one country after another that had a secular leadership which was deadly against the Al Qaeda and all its forms . and look what we are left with.

I mean we never saw such propensity to commit indiscriminate and mass murder of innocent civilians by so called "islamists" (even this term is new) only a century ago when those Muslims should have had more reason to do so because of Western imperial occupation. instead they joined Allied forces against the Nazis .

let me knock you on the head and say Hello !! anybody there??
this So called global Islamic radicalisation phenomenon is engineered.. this so called daesh or Al Qaeda exists only because it is serving a purpose and western leadership is on board together with its staunch Arab allies.. yes it has the convenience to quote Islam whenever it is convenient but I refuse to apologise for the demons your leaders and their allies have created.

@Arsalan is that what was needed?

A strong stance stating all the facts, admitting our mistakes while pointing at their, i cannot ask for much more. Thank you!

The roots of the the present radicalization lie within Muslim countries, 100%. Trying to blame the big bad West for a non-existent conspiracy will never work here, since it is up to Muslim societies in those countries to figure out a solution for themselves if they are to survive.

Lolz, so you saying that all of a sudden we woke up in the
century and realized that, oh well, lets just go out there and kill some Christians. Absurd. There surely are some reasons, some history behind what we see today. I for one am of the view that most of the damage has been done by our own misguided, paid or just ignorant leaders of religion who mislead the Umaat as a whole. Emphasis was put on all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons and at the wrong times while there were much more important issues that were to be addressed but were ignored. Now true that this is a fault of us our self but this is a fault of implementation and not a fault of the message or the code. What we chose and how we chose to implement is where we get things wrong. Yes the Muslims world was left behind and it is more of a fault of our people then it is of the west. BUT, the western connection CANNOT be just ignored. Oppressive laws were made, injustice was done. The role of US and the west in Taliban and now ISIS is something that that not even they themselves can deny. Yes the fire was there but they sure did added wood to it. All this while being the advocate of a modern society is plain joke. Either you follow your own rules or you do not blames others for bending them just like you yourself do. Yeah they can do so not, might is right,, we know!! BUT we also know that history is right as well and what have changed once can and will change again as well. There is no reason that things wont improve for the Muslim world. HOWEVER i do agree that it will be us Muslims our self who have to act to make it happen. Saying Amreka kutaa mreka kutaa wont help us unless we start doing something practical to clean all the mess we find our self in. Also i believe that once we start doing so we will realize that Amreka was not such Kutta either and we will find that the the whole world is not conspiring against us. However putting all blame on the Muslim world alone is just as arrogant and stupid as the chants i mentioned in this post regarding America!

Personally speaking the act is condemn able. I can attribute such reaction to over reaction of western world against muslims. What would have been the headlines if shooter was a christian? Would it be "A christian shot 50 people in a gay club" or would it be a " lunatic opened fire in a club full merry makers"

Discrimination breeds discrimination. In my opinion best headline for this act should have been " A member of gay club opened indiscriminate fire on fellow members." I am sure a balanced headlines would not have raised any type of controversy and all would have sympathised with those who left for this world on eternal journey.

The problem here is that even we were not able to quote it like this. However, that wont make it any less of a negative propaganda tactics used by there media!

About the incident, yes, it was a real sad incident. All those people were killed, loss of human life in no way should be celebrated. What the gunman did was criminal and must be condemned. However if we talk about religion, YES! Islam do not allow the homosexuality and what they were doing was not right! Do this mean that they should be killed like this? NO NOT AT ALL!! Do them being killed make them hero or innocent in eyes of Islam, NO not at all!

 

[VCheng]

HOWEVER i do agree that it will be us Muslims our self who have to act to make it happen. Saying Amreka kutaa mreka kutaa wont help us unless we start doing something practical to clean all the mess we find our self in. Also i believe that once we start doing so we will realize that Amreka was not such Kutta either and we will find that the the whole world is not conspiring against us.

So why are the Muslims not doing what needs to be done to put out the fires burning their own homes, regardless of who set the fire or who added the fuel? It is their home, and it is up to them to save it rather than blaming others.

 

[Arsalan]

So why are the Muslims not doing what needs to be done to put out the fires burning their own homes, regardless of who set the fire or who added the fuel? It is their home, and it is up to them to save it rather than blaming others.

They should, as i said. It if negligence on there part and policies of there own governments as well as those of the west. In short, they MUST concentrate on getting there own act straight. Still, doing so or not doing so wont change what west did wrong and that was what i was pointing too. There is no argument about how we do need to correct our own mistakes, there never was!

 

[VCheng]

They should, as i said. It if negligence on there part and policies of there own governments as well as those of the west. In short, they MUST concentrate on getting there own act straight. Still, doing so or not doing so wont change what west did wrong and that was what i was pointing too. There is no argument about how we do need to correct our own mistakes, there never was!

We agree on the should part, yes, but my puzzlement is due to the lack of any actual steps that would get the situation on the path to rectification. IF Muslims know that they should work to get their act straight, why don't they?

 

[Cherokee]

The amount of homophobia shown on this thread is mind boggling .

 

[Arsalan]

We agree on the should part, yes, but my puzzlement is due to the lack of any actual steps that would get the situation on the path to rectification. IF Muslims know that they should work to get their act straight, why don't they?

Well i did mentioned the reasons in the last post, the policies, decisions and influences all are to be blamed. Maybe we (i wont say they, for me it is like putting the blame on others again, something you criticize but seem to be doing right here.) are more to be blamed then others, that never was the point i was arguing with. Perhaps you ignored or missed the actual issue here. Anyway!!

The amount of homophobia shown on this thread is mind boggling .

Sir phobia is something that is just being associated with anything anyone want to these days. I wont call the reaction as homophobia. It is just that our religion do not allows it, period. What is "phobia" in that? I wont go on to address other things that may be termed as phobia related to you, it is simple not suitable for a Muslim to go that that level.

 

[Cherokee]

Sir phobia is something that is just being associated with anything anyone want to these days. I wont call the reaction as homophobia. It is just that our religion do not allows it, period. What is "phobia" in that? I wont go on to address other things that may be termed as phobia related to you, it is simple not suitable for a Muslim to go that that level.

There is no "phobia" related with me and if your religion is not ready to accept gays as normal people it needs a 21st century upgrade just what the Christians got .

 

[VCheng]

There is no "phobia" related with me and if your religion is not ready to accept gays as normal people it needs a 21st century upgrade just what the Christians got .

There is always the choice to remain in the 7th century if the 21st century is not compatible with one's personal beliefs and practices, regardless of which religion is being followed.

 

[Cherokee]

There is always the choice to remain in the 7th century if the 21st century is not compatible with one's personal beliefs and practices, regardless of which religion is being followed.

Region itself is loosing relevance in today's world . Its liberals vs conservatives . Conservative Christians are same as conservative Muslims or conservative Hindus and liberal Christians(used loosely ) are same as liberal muslims(used loosely ) or liberal Hindus(used loosely ).
At the end of the day If you wanna live in modern world you will have to make your religion(if you really are religious) a buffet and pick and choose things you wanna follow or become a person who lives on fringes of society as he/she follows everything wholesale .

 

[VCheng]

Region itself is loosing relevance in today's world . Its liberals vs conservatives . Conservative Christians are same as conservative Muslims or conservative Hindus and liberal Christians(used loosely ) are same as liberal muslims(used loosely ) or liberal Hindus(used loosely ).
At the end of the day If you wanna live in modern world you will have to make your religion(if you really are religious) a buffet and pick and choose things you wanna follow or become a person who lives on fringes of society as he/she follows everything wholesale .

It is a choice for everyone to make in light of their own personal views, which are to be respected equally. The world will march on regardless of the decisions made.

 

[Cherokee]

It is a choice for everyone to make in light of their own personal views, which are to be respected equally. The world will march on regardless of the decisions made.

ANd Like I said others will be left behind on fringes .

 

[VCheng]

ANd Like I said others will be left behind on fringes .

Choices have consequences, of course.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Lolz, so you saying that all of a sudden we woke up in the
century and realized that, oh well, lets just go out there and kill some Christians. Absurd. There surely are some reasons, some history behind what we see today. I for one am of the view that most of the damage has been done by our own misguided, paid or just ignorant leaders of religion who mislead the Umaat as a whole. Emphasis was put on all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons and at the wrong times while there were much more important issues that were to be addressed but were ignored.

we must refuse to apologise for the actions of these thugs that have been experimented and used by the west over the decades. these pests have destroyed our old heritage and executed fellow Arabs in thousands a day.

they have nothing to do with us. their birth and their existence is not spontaneous. the presidential hopeful Hillary has already admitted American role in such "experimentation" in the past.

I don't expect these hypocrites to be as generous in finding their own faults but the karma bites them bad..
their American officials were burning alive and Al Qaeda flag was waving in Libya already when they had not stopped patting each other's back for downing yet another regime in the middle east.

why they expect the Arabs to show sympathy towards them when they call for nuking the entire Middle east and turning the entire Arabian sand into a glass from nuclear fire?

they dont bat an eye over the human suffering in the middle east and add more salt to the wound by saying that its the problem with their religion that they kill each other... they say that because their opinion makers are feeding them crap at large scale through their media.
look at the pictures of Iraq, Libya and Syria about 20 years ago and compare it to now.

if this carnage was self inflicted by Arab Muslims then they should never have been like below.


look below.. all below were made and maintained by the Arabs in the Middle east. if they were savage and destructive in nature just for being Muslims as per Western narrative BS then they wont have made anything like this.

until the intervention and experimentation of the west.. these places were peaceful.. either through direct aggression and invasions on false claims or through proxies ... the western governments of the past and present have the blood of millions of Arabs on their hands.
forgive me
but I dont expect anyone in the middle east to show any sympathy towards the terror victims in the west.

 

[VCheng]

until the intervention and experimentation of the west.. these places were peaceful.

Peaceful? Really? What about the Iran-Iraq war, or the invasion of Kuwait, or what is going on in Lebanon, as examples of just how "peaceful" the Middle East was before any intervention? Or is that the fault of the West too?