As a Pakistani, do I have any rights to raise questions on establishment?

[Moonlight]

corruption eating Pakistan alive & you all are talking about Establishment

You still think, we Pakistanis don’t talk about corruption?

 

[Babur The Uzbek Tiger]

Pakistan should have installed a royal family from day one also named it Mughalistan instead of land of the pure. This would legitimize and strengthen your sovereignty. Democracy doesn't work amidst that kind of toxic political and divided environment where every Tom, Dominic and Geraldo has a vision of what is right for a country barely 70 years old. You need that good old monarchy or dictatorship. Too late now though really.

 

[newb3e]

corruption eating Pakistan alive & you all are talking about Establishment

Army is responsible for the state Pakistan is in right now! they have ruled Pakistan for 30 odd years and all they did was sign nro and protect corrupt politicians!!! in those 30 years please tell me aik institution jis ko empower kia ho in fauji generals na!!! okay politicians were corrupt fine what steps did army take while in power to change the system to empower and rectify the system!!!

 

[Mumm-Ra]

The answer to your question, in my opinion, is not just a simple yes or no. The Pakistani establishment has had a long history of meddling in politics because of the space provided by our civilian leaders. Nature abhors vacuum and whenever there is one, something will come to fill it. The power vacuum that have been created time and again by our leaders have enabled the establishment to try its hand in politics and steer the country to the right course as the establishment defines it. The initial desire for such an intervention may have been to correct the rot in the system but once they tasted the fruits of power, it was not easy to let go. Even the Greek soldiers lamented that Alexander could not be defeated by the Persian in battle but he succumbed to its customs of the royal court. Soldiers are trained for a hard life and getting a taste of the good life with unlimited power would turn the minds of even the most zealots of would be reformers.

The present hue and cry about the military's supposed unaccountable organs is partly because the current crop of politicians would like o run the military as they do the Police. For them, the military is just another uniformed servants of the state. By virtue of being the elected representatives, they think it is their right that military should be accountable to them and in in an ideal situation they are not wrong. However, these elected reps. are knee deep in corruption and every other malpractice known t man. The establishment uses these charges against them to thwart them and maintain the independence of the military. The weaknesses of our leaders and their own lack of accountability to the people does not allow them to dictate their terms to the military and most of the time the army emerges on top of such contests as by and large the public has a better perception about the army than its elected leaders.

Since, the military establishment is relatively independent to safeguard its interests, it has used such parties in the past to show street power and how popular it is in the hearts of the people. In return, the religious right has enjoyed impunity from pretty much every organisation in the state. The religious right are free mint money from its various activities and the fat cats at the top are ready to do whatever it takes to ensure that the state does not intervene in their perceived area of interests. For example there was a clause in the NAP to register the unregistered madrissahs and the religious right make quite a lot noise against it. To the best of my knowledge, that clause was never brought up again nor was it implemented in full letter and spirit. The military establishment will continue to use the religious right and in turn the maulvis will come out with their followers whenever the establishment has need of them. Another example of this case is the emergence of TUQ. All the elements of militancy in Pakistan have ties to the religious right. the religious right provides the street power for the establishment. The establishment tolerate the militants as long as they do not become strong enough to challenge the hegemony of the state. Then, sends in the soldiers to clear up the mess and remind everyone whose boss. The front line soldiers are merely pawns in this whole scenario.

In the end, the mechanization of the establishment, true or perceived, can only be brought to an end by a competent and accountable leadership (Not IK). Until, such leadership is found, we will forever be embroiled in this violent cycle.

 

[HRK]

Why can’t establishment being an important institution help to solve the issue between government & TeL?

& that would not be a unnecessary intervention in the DEMOCRATIC RIGHT of the GOVERNMENT & the people
plz have a look
https://www.dawn.com/news/1361230
https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2017/...-to-desist-from-making-statements-on-economy/
so plz let the GOVERNMENT pass order to the ESTABLISHMENT which I am sure they will follow

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Such comments used to boil my blood. But now make me laugh.

there are thousands of Pakistan who when go abroad especially west change their culture and religion and start abusing and cursing their own country and nation to look progressive and educated in eyes of their western friend
if you want i can gave you name of such individuals who are earning their living just by spewing venom against Pakistan

 

[war&peace]

Just a question:
Why a sit-in on an issue created by ruling political party for the diversion of public sentiments is linked with 'Establishment' ....??

Because certain people need to secure funding from external agencies. A certain lobby has always remained active in distorting the image of the state of Pakistan and hence they start with "Establishment", a very vague term implied to point at Pakistan army, as many of the libturds start by blaming "Mullah" while their main target is Islam itself.

 

[Moonlight]

there are thousands of Pakistan who when go abroad especially west change their culture and religion and start abusing and cursing their own country and nation to look progressive and educated in eyes of their western friend
if you want i can gave you name of such individuals who are earning their living just by spewing venom against Pakistan

HAHAHAHAHA. Judgmental everywhere.

@Zibago @django say something.

 

[Arsalan]

Just a question:
Why a sit-in on an issue created by ruling political party for the diversion of public sentiments is linked with 'Establishment' ....??

EXACTLY!
This is how our people are being misguided. The gov. creates a mess and make people look towards army to clean it up. Now if they act, they scums will take to streets crying mujy kuen nikala, if they ignore the people wont be comfortable with it. Dark times indeed when you see your own gov. conspiring against your own army. Sad.

What needs to be done is to educate the people to learn and understand what is whose responsibility. Like in this case, people should be looking at the interior ministry and the gov. rather than establishment - Any failure to resolve the situation is on gov. Army SHOULD be accused and hold responsible IF they chose to ignore an order of gov. to clean up this mess but the order needs to come from the gov. Choprian aur do do walay kaam chor dy ab yeh sarkar!

HAHAHAHAHA. Judgmental everywhere.

@Zibago @django say something.

DONT!
No need to even pay attention to such things. WE know what you are up for, i think this should be enough. It is enough for me when i know there are a few people who know what i am saying and why.

 

[war&peace]

there are thousands of Pakistan who when go abroad especially west change their culture and religion and start abusing and cursing their own country and nation to look progressive and educated in eyes of their western friend
if you want i can gave you name of such individuals who are earning their living just by spewing venom against Pakistan

Are you talking about Tarek Fateh ?

 

[Moonlight]

& that would not be a unnecessary intervention in the DEMOCRATIC RIGHT of the GOVERNMENT & the people
plz have a look
https://www.dawn.com/news/1361230
https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2017/...-to-desist-from-making-statements-on-economy/
so plz let the GOVERNMENT pass order to the ESTABLISHMENT which I am sure they will follow

You believe government will ever ask to sort out the situation ?
I doubt.

 

[Amaa'n]

Why can’t establishment being an important institution help to solve the issue between government & TeL?

allow me to put in few facts & then you can connect the dots yourself ----
1) Govt made the mistake of amending the law (out of good will of bad intention), but they did not managed the change properly......
2) Govt failed to stop the protestors at their origin - where the rally initiated - they underestimated it --- blame the poor Intelligence network by Special Branch, SB operators are busy in compiling files on political opponents ......
3) Govt was of view that just like the other rally at D-chowk by the Mullah brigade, this rally will disperse in a day or too......again I blame the poor Intelligence network
4) the protestors reached the spot & have settled in, govt failed to cut the supply line ....the food & confectioneries are still reaching the spot......Mullahs are traveling in & out of the Protest on daily basis....
5) If Govt moves in with a heavy hand, there is going to be bloodshed.....another lal masjid & model town.....mullahs will be filling cases
6) Establishment / Govt has failed to gather support for the Govt by the religious parties & leaders , hence in case of a bloodbath, we can see country falling to further chaos.......
7) IF there is an investigation into the matter & someone senior or a minister is named directly......you will have another mumtaz qadri & another salman taseer at hands ---- rabi ul awal has started .....Mullah will walk with their chests out to get a bullet.......

 

[HRK]

Let me put it simple.
Are we doing operations only in FATA Balouchistan and Karachi? When it’s about it’s successs we proudly claim ARMY did that and we abuse civilians for doing nothing.

Can you recall the speech of NS in National Assembly which he delivered before Operation Zarb-e-Azab in which he offer negotiation to TTP ....
Who should be credited for the operation NS .... ???

This fitna

If this a 'fitna' but not the the attempt of Government to invoke it unnecessarily ?? what was the connection of endness of prohethood with the election bill ....
who is creating problem ...??? & for what purpose ...???

Disappearing and Encounter are not new for us and if it could be happened in Karachi or Balouchistan why not on these scums?

& You are sue that Army is behind all those force disappearances right ...???
MQM & Baloch Nationalist have no role in it .... no one is hiding in Afghanistan, South Africa & other places

 

[Arsalan]

You believe government will ever ask to sort out the situation ?
I doubt.

They wont. Because THEY dont care and that is what the nation should realize. The sooner the better.
I think it is time we gang up on twitter and social media or even on ground and start throwing eggs on face of gov. for their lack of action in this matter. A dharna against the dharna!

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Are you talking about Tarek Fateh ?

yes he and many others like him

HAHAHAHAHA. Judgmental everywhere.

@Zibago @django say something.

not judgemental not all finger are equal