As a Pakistani, do I have any rights to raise questions on establishment?

[RealNapster]

Still takes many decision independently I’m sure for the good of the soil and citizens
Why can’t now?

Because taking day to day decisions or decision to fence border is different then ordering fire on civilians sit-in or torturing them. Army have improved its image after so many years of strugle. They are not going to destroy it again. So the carefull walk.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Before I begin, don’t judge my patriotism. Do NOT label me as an anti-army.
First thing, I do NOT have to prove my patriotism to anyone. But I still say it to make few things clear before coming to my questions. I have massive respect for our LEA, especially armed forces. And sheer purpose of this thread is the affection as well as the massive respect for our soldiers.

On borders and locations average Pakistani even haven’t ever heard of are being operated with given so many precious lives of young soldiers of this soil.
It takes time, money, and hardwork with hard training to make a solider. But it takes a moment for the enemies of the soil to take a life.....a life I believe is more important than an average Pakistani.

The death of Maj Ishaq is heartbreaking. Those pictures of his wife are gut-wrenching. We all will forget maj Ishaq until his first death anniversary. But the real burden & loss..... a loss that can NEVER be recovered is the loss of his 1 year old kid & the widow.
Martyrdom of maj Ishaq not only upset me & sadden me today but actually give the birth to anger in my heart. That made me question here.

So on one side we are giving in both the lives and money to secure the soil. But on the other, extremists group like “Thareek e Labbiak” has hijacked the capital city of Pakistan. What message is being delivered? I personally believe, the sacrifices of our shaheed jawans will go in drain.

We all know the exceptional power establishment enjoy in Pakistan. So what is making them stop taking some serious actions against these goons in Islamabad. Establishment’s intention maybe is crystal clear. But taking no step is indirectly supporting their cause.
It is hard for a sane mind to accept that one extremists group is given all the freedom to blockade the capital city without no support from agencies.

I don’t want to bring in Islam here because it will trigger some keyboards jihadists. I will hear a new Fatwa.
But I must state a little story from the life of Rasool Allah saw.

If we can questions politicians, why can’t we question establishment?
Isn’t Pakistan over everything? All the institutions?
Lastly, if establishment is all with “Pakistan first” & stay away from any sort of disturbance. Then I being a Pakistani request to high authorities to please take hard actions against Khadam Rizvi & co. for the betterment of Pakistan. For safe & secure Pakistan. For good economic of Pakistan. For Pakistan.

Thank you.


. Trolls stay away from this thread.
. Serious discussion only.
. “Let’s agree to disagree”
. Don’t derail the thread.

Have a great one all. Thank you.

See, the term establishment is very vague. No body exactly knows, who this "establishment" exactly is. It is my observation that establishment is a relative term. It some times means military, only when someone mentions it, but not always. Please also note that a martial law can never be imposed, until guys sitting in Establishment division, Finance division, Cabinet division, PAS(and other such groups) and some civilian intelligence agencies do approve it. Army can't do it on their own. So, its very complicated.
These dharnas and other agitations are just side effects. When rule and justice systems fails, when the rules have different meanings for different people, when you need to commit suicide just get heard...this happens. Actually Nawazsharif and co are trying to play with a very well established thing.
From the appointment of a peon to President, its all "parchi".

BTW, these people are just protesting, which is their legal right. Why so negativity towards them? Yes, govt should provide alternative path to traffic.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Before I begin, don’t judge my patriotism. Do NOT label me as an anti-army.
First thing, I do NOT have to prove my patriotism to anyone. But I still say it to make few things clear before coming to my questions. I have massive respect for our LEA, especially armed forces. And sheer purpose of this thread is the affection as well as the massive respect for our soldiers.

On borders and locations average Pakistani even haven’t ever heard of are being operated with given so many precious lives of young soldiers of this soil.
It takes time, money, and hardwork with hard training to make a solider. But it takes a moment for the enemies of the soil to take a life.....a life I believe is more important than an average Pakistani.

The death of Maj Ishaq is heartbreaking. Those pictures of his wife are gut-wrenching. We all will forget maj Ishaq until his first death anniversary. But the real burden & loss..... a loss that can NEVER be recovered is the loss of his 1 year old kid & the widow.
Martyrdom of maj Ishaq not only upset me & sadden me today but actually give the birth to anger in my heart. That made me question here.

So on one side we are giving in both the lives and money to secure the soil. But on the other, extremists group like “Thareek e Labbiak” has hijacked the capital city of Pakistan. What message is being delivered? I personally believe, the sacrifices of our shaheed jawans will go in drain.

We all know the exceptional power establishment enjoy in Pakistan. So what is making them stop taking some serious actions against these goons in Islamabad. Establishment’s intention maybe is crystal clear. But taking no step is indirectly supporting their cause.
It is hard for a sane mind to accept that one extremists group is given all the freedom to blockade the capital city without no support from agencies.

I don’t want to bring in Islam here because it will trigger some keyboards jihadists. I will hear a new Fatwa.
But I must state a little story from the life of Rasool Allah saw.

If we can questions politicians, why can’t we question establishment?
Isn’t Pakistan over everything? All the institutions?
Lastly, if establishment is all with “Pakistan first” & stay away from any sort of disturbance. Then I being a Pakistani request to high authorities to please take hard actions against Khadam Rizvi & co. for the betterment of Pakistan. For safe & secure Pakistan. For good economic of Pakistan. For Pakistan.

Thank you.


. Trolls stay away from this thread.
. Serious discussion only.
. “Let’s agree to disagree”
. Don’t derail the thread.

Have a great one all. Thank you.

no if you are a dual national bcoz you're loyalties can be questioned you cant be loyal to both nations at same time

 

[newb3e]

Generals are not BORN generals, they are made one! They go through the same route as Maj Ishaq was going through, as that kid lieutenant Arsalan was going through. They died, he becomes a hero. If he had survived and went on to become a general then he would have been a bigot too?

At least understand the mechanism before making such comments.

lols fine i dont understand the mechansim! but please tell me how many generals have lost their life protecting Pakistan!!! and how many Pakistanis been killed because land developer was busy selling land and not protecting people!!! please tell me why a general commuting is given more protection than common man!!! please tell me why life of a general is worth more than that of a common Pakistani!!!

how the eff are generals so rich and powerful while hard working pakistan struggle for do waqt ki rooti!!!

please tell me how after operation in Karachi mqm Pakistan and psp were allowed by your mighty land developing army to reconcile and rule karachi for as long as they want even though the whole effing world knows that every bastard in these party is a terrorist!!

 

[HRK]

Just a question:
Why a sit-in on an issue created by ruling political party for the diversion of public sentiments is linked with 'Establishment' ....??

 

[Hareeb]

Tri-services work under the order of GoP. They will take action only after GoP orders them.

Secondly, Islamabad high court has already adviced the government to do action against sit-in but its government's decision for what to do and what not to.

Inaddition, kuch log forces or awam ko aamne samne krna chahtey hain so its better k mamla afham-o-tafheem se hal ho.

Lastly, I guess govt wants sit-in to get long because PMLN wants to distract the court's and nation's focus from Panama Case.

 

[Amaa'n]

Respected sir, hold on, you know the difference between “ranting” & “questioning”. I’m sorry to say from your post it seems the answer is No.

Underline part:

If two parties in Karachi can be called to unite for the “betterment” of Karachi. Why no discussion with government & TeL for “betterment” of Pakistan?

i think my words came out as offensive, so apologies for that....but they were not meant for you......let me quote some examples.....
- an journo filming some random guy asking him about xyz in a parking lot....he goes to twitter and starts a rant, he caught Lt.Col - ISI walking out of NAB court......period....no further detail given.....
- a journo takes a clipping from local sindhi paper, starts a rant on twitter - Abductors of PPP workers were ISI agents .....no evidence given .....no detail.....period.....

this is not questioning but just starting a rant.....you can see in today's hearing in Supreme court on soumoto of Islamabad sit in ..... and Judge is questioning that how a powerful institution like ISI has failed to answer our questions on funding & support of TeL.......

Just a question:
Why a sit-in on an issue created by ruling political party for the diversion of public sentiments is linked with 'Establishment' ....??

apparently , solution to all our problems is Establishment & the cause of those problems is also the Establishment ......
one wonders what & who is Establishment

 

[python-000]

corruption eating Pakistan alive & you all are talking about Establishment

 

[Moonlight]

BTW, these people are just protesting, which is their legal right. Why so negativity towards them? Yes, govt should provide alternative path to traffic.

They have man handled many reporters. Hijacked the capital city.

no if you are a dual national bcoz you're loyalties can be questioned you cant be loyal to both nations at same time

Such comments used to boil my blood. But now make me laugh.

Just a question:
Why a sit-in on an issue created by ruling political party for the diversion of public sentiments is linked with 'Establishment' ....??

Why can’t establishment being an important institution help to solve the issue between government & TeL?

 

[python-000]

criminals & corrupt mafia are become quit stronger & stronger day by day we must strengthen the power of Pakistan's LAW

 

[war&peace]

if questioning means taking it to the Social media & starting a rant without an ounce of evidence

Rather I think it is a fashionable thing to do for the candle-mafia. People join the bandwagon for their petty benefits whether it is securing some funding and donation from external agencies or getting access to certain countries and think tanks. All they have to do is exaggerate, distort and fabricate the facts.

 

[Moonlight]

i think my words came out as offensive, so apologies for that....but they were not meant for you......let me quote some examples.....
- an journo filming some random guy asking him about xyz in a parking lot....he goes to twitter and starts a rant, he caught Lt.Col - ISI walking out of NAB court......period....no further detail given.....
- a journo takes a clipping from local sindhi paper, starts a rant on twitter - Abductors of PPP workers were ISI agents .....no evidence given .....no detail.....period.....

this is not questioning but just starting a rant.....you can see in today's hearing in Supreme court on soumoto of Islamabad sit in ..... and Judge is questioning that how a powerful institution like ISI has failed to answer our questions on funding & support of TeL.......


apparently , solution to all our problems is Establishment & the cause of those problems is also the Establishment ......
one wonders what & who is Establishment

I myself have subtweeted to such jouranlists who puts blame of everything on establishment.
I know their motive because been a time I’m following them.

But my question wasn’t a ‘rant’.
But a concern. Pakistan is my concern. So I can raise question on any institution, can’t I?.

 

[Musafir117]

Just a question:
Why a sit-in on an issue created by ruling political party for the diversion of public sentiments is linked with 'Establishment' ....??

Let me put it simple.
Are we doing operations only in FATA Balouchistan and Karachi? When it’s about it’s successs we proudly claim ARMY did that and we abuse civilians for doing nothing.
This fitna we have in ISD not appears in sudden, they did it a year back in ISD abused everyone a lot of FIRs registered and case closed. They wake up again and doing same thing, they abused Edhi ( and army who organized his Janaza prayer) they abusing Tariq Jameel they abusing TuQ and IK and whoever against them. Na not only abusing but threatening too.
Now who we look for to save us from them? Civilians? Army?
My point isn’t to finish their Dharna by force coz it’s too late now and seeing a blood shed not only in Dharna but all over Pakistan. May be you didn’t listened their speeches, have some time and listen them.
Disappearing and Encounter are not new for us and if it could be happened in Karachi or Balouchistan why not on these scums?

 

[The Diplomat]

There’s two things; the Molvy group in Islamabad should have been stopped at Lahore and God forbid there be another Lal Masjid operation, why? Because our army’s soldiers may lose their lives. Currently there are 5,000 Police, FC and Rangers at the location waiting for orders however it’s not FC or Ranger’s job to stop protests... The police has failed to do their job.

You talked about ‘establishment’. The army was some what criticised during Gen Kayani era.

My heart goes out to Maj Ishaq Shaheed. A man full of life and had a lot to live for... may Allah grant him the highest place in Jannat. Ameen.

 

[Amaa'n]

Why can’t establishment being an important institution help to solve the issue between government & TeL?

in post 2013 scenario or i would say post Gen.Kiyani era one would have to invite Establishment to take part in the reconciliation process.....they had still made mistakes & burden of that will fall on ill management by the Military Intelligence when they tried to work beyond their jurisdictions ......but fell badly on the their face......ISI on the otherhand is a different ball game.....