Army Act Amendment : New chapter included in the Army Act 1952

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Why doesn't General Bajwa want to retire?

 

[El Sidd]

It's my opinion, disagreement is your right. But what current situation desires, in my view it was needed. And CPEC is connected with it you like it or not. Maybe you know more ground realities but it's your opinion.

We can agree to disagree.

Both parties are well versed in pros and cons of this. It comes down to those having authority and their decisions. In the end we must all follow those decisions whether we like or not.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why doesn't General Bajwa want to retire?

However i would like to simply ask Mr. Bajwa to not take the bait.

He's been asked to continue and I believe the PTI leadership feels that because he is so strongly supportive of the PTI government that his continuation as COAS will cut down on the rumor mill in the country and you won't have the media destabilizing the government with its usual conspiracy theories etc.

As it is, the 'resistance' has already floated rumors that there are 'groupings' within the Army and one section of the Army is opposed to Bajwa (and what is implied here is that a section of the Army is opposed to the PTI). So at this stage, if Bajwa were to not get an extension, the government is very likely going to be destabilized or weakened by the rumor mongering in the media and by lifafa's.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

He's been asked to continue and I believe the PTI leadership feels that because he is so strongly supportive of the PTI government that his continuation as COAS will cut down on the rumor mill in the country and you won't have the media destabilizing the government with its usual conspiracy theories etc.

As it is, the 'resistance' has already floated rumors that there are 'groupings' within the Army and one section of the Army is opposed to Bajwa (and what is implied here is that a section of the Army is opposed to the PTI). So at this stage, if Bajwa were to not get an extension, the government is very likely going to be destabilized or weakened by the rumor mongering in the media and by lifafa's.

You're point being General Bajwa shouldn't have been supportive of a single political party?

 

[El Sidd]

He's been asked to continue and I believe the PTI leadership feels that because he is so strongly supportive of the PTI government that his continuation as COAS will cut down on the rumor mill in the country and you won't have the media destabilizing the government with its usual conspiracy theories etc.

As it is, the 'resistance' has already floated rumors that there are 'groupings' within the Army and one section of the Army is opposed to Bajwa (and what is implied here is that a section of the Army is opposed to the PTI). So at this stage, if Bajwa were to not get an extension, the government is very likely going to be destabilized or weakened by the rumor mongering in the media and by lifafa's.

by this post either it seems PTI is blackmailing Bajwa or its the other way around.

Go back to the basics of exercising executive rights. that works better if you are pro government otherwise it further adds to the misery.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You're point being General Bajwa shouldn't have been supportive of a single political party?

The PTI feels comfortable with Bajwa. They feel there is a renewed civilian-military cooperative dynamic and the 2 are on the same page on many critical issues after a long time. The PTI has also gone through a very painful series of economic reforms and there may still be some time before the economy turns around, and Bajwa appears to have been on board for those reforms. So for a political party that is brand new to power, is dealing with major crises and does not have the kind of established voter base, supporters in the bureaucracy, judiciary, lawyers groups etc that the PMLN & PPP do, it makes sense that they would want Bajwa, whom they know very well by now, to continue.

by this post either it seems PTI is blackmailing Bajwa or its the other way around.

Go back to the basics of exercising executive rights. that works better if you are pro government otherwise it further adds to the misery.

Please see my response above.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

The PTI feels comfortable with Bajwa. They feel there is a renewed civilian-military cooperative dynamic and the 2 are on the same page on many critical issues after a long time. The PTI has also gone through a very painful series of economic reforms and there may still be some time before the economy turns around, and Bajwa appears to have been on board for those reforms. So for a political party that is brand new to power, is dealing with major crises and does not have the kind of established voter base, supporters in the bureaucracy, judiciary, lawyers groups etc that the PMLN & PPP do, it makes sense that they would want Bajwa, whom they know very well by now, to continue.

That's all fine that PTI needs the Army Chief to survive but does the Army need a single political party? Is it wise for the Army to put all its eggs in one basket?

Besides, the Army to date has always got the budget it wanted regardless which political party is in power.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's all fine that PTI needs the Army Chief to survive but does the Army need a single political party? Is it wise for the Army to put all its eggs in one basket?

Besides, the Army to date has always got the budget it wanted regardless which political party is in power.

The issue here isn't the budget itself - it's the trust & confidence in the relationship. No one is stopping the other political parties from making nice with the Army. In my view the problem has always been that the PPP & PMLN used the Army as a scapegoat even when the Army had no role in their screw-ups and the PMLN & PPP used their 'anonymous sources' and 'lifafa journalists' to continue planting articles attacking the Army (Dawn leaks for example). You can't expect the military and government to have a cordial relationship when one side is undermining the other.

And I think the Army was correct in cautioning the PMLN & PPP governments from expanding ties with India too quickly. Imagine the impact on Pakistan if we were importing/exporting billions more in goods and services when the Balakot incident happened and we had to cut-off ties.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

....And I think the Army was correct in cautioning the PMLN & PPP governments from expanding ties with India too quickly. Imagine the impact on Pakistan if we were importing/exporting billions more in goods and services when the Balakot incident happened and we had to cut-off ties.

I thought it was all due to "Enlightened Moderation" that a "unilateral ceasefire" was done in November 2003, ban on Bollywood was lifted after 40-years in 2006 and trade expansion with the enemy was given the priority in the hope large scale trading will lead to interdependence and reduction in hostilities.

Was all this not Army's idea in your opinion?

 

[blain2]

Any action must be warranted by logic or reason.

No logic and no reason has been provided by the government. It only lends credibility to Sheikh Rashid when he said COAS and Government will remain for 3 years(extension period). Unless ofcourse you can prove that extra ordinary circumstance exist which then would be hard to explain with American Indians running around Pakistan shooting videos for YouTube.

One thing to keep in mind. You mentioned in your very first post on this thread that this seems political. However, even political expediency is not the reason for this extension because if that were the case, what is the driver behind it?

I am not forming an opinion whether this is good or bad yet. The negative is that it is a kill joy for all other senior officers looking for a promotion. It cannot be good if each chief starts jockeying for an extension in the last 12 months of his tenure as chief of staff. Focus is on things other than professional stuff amongst all the PSOs as well as the chief. The government is sort of setting this precedence by pushing for this extension.

I would prefer if the GoP would empower the CJCSC and push the services chiefs up to that post to provide continuity of policies and any other reasons that are being leveraged to push forward the case of Army chief's extension.

The pros for the case in Pakistan are that indeed 2019 was different in that we came the closest to a very a large force engagement which we have not seen since perhaps 2002/2011 timeframe as such maybe it makes sense to have all of the services chiefs continue to serve into 2020 and slightly beyond

On the lighter side, don't know if other members saw the group photo with India's new CDS. None of the other chiefs looked too happy with even a pleasant face. It was a sombre group as if someone had died in the near and dear ones. In essence he got the nod, the others know that they will retire without even having a chance at it (perhaps the new Army Chief will have a chance). Reality is that extensions are not a good thing institutionally speaking. It comes at the cost of all others. An in-service extension (CoAS/AS/NS staying for 6 years!) is even harder than not getting the nod for the Joint Chiefs of Staff appointment.

 

[El Sidd]

One thing to keep in mind. You mentioned in your very first post on this thread that this seems political. However, even political expediency is not the reason for this extension because if that were the case, what is the driver behind it?

I am not forming an opinion whether this is good or bad yet. The negative is that it is a kill joy for all other senior officers looking for a promotion. It cannot be good if each chief starts jockeying for an extension in the last 12 months of his tenure as chief of staff. Focus is on things other than professional stuff amongst all the PSOs as well as the chief. The government is sort of setting this precedence by pushing for this extension.

I would prefer if the GoP would empower the CJCSC and push the services chiefs up to that post to provide continuity of policies and any other reasons that are being leveraged to push forward the case of Army chief's extension.

The pros for the case in Pakistan are that indeed 2019 was different in that we came the closest to a very a large force engagement which we have not seen since perhaps 2002/2011 timeframe as such maybe it makes sense to have all of the services chiefs continue to serve into 2020 and slightly beyond

On the lighter side, don't know if other members saw the group photo with India's new CDS. None of the other chiefs looked too happy with even a pleasant face. It was a sombre group as if someone had died in the near and dear ones. In essence he got the nod, the others know that they will retire without even having a chance at it (perhaps the new Army Chief will have a chance). Reality is that extensions are not a good thing institutionally speaking. It comes at the cost of all others. An in-service extension (CoAS/AS/NS staying for 6 years!) is even harder than not getting the nod for the Joint Chiefs of Staff appointment.

February 2019 would have ended the way it did regardless of the fact who has the stick. India had more troop mobilisation in 2002 than in 2019.

We cannot discuss everything so candidly on an open forum but this is just an effort to politicize the armed forces. The infamous list already has NAB, FIA, Judiciary and ANF and i will resist in my civilian capacity inclusion of the armed forces in that list.

The PTI feels comfortable with Bajwa. They feel there is a renewed civilian-military cooperative dynamic and the 2 are on the same page on many critical issues after a long time. The PTI has also gone through a very painful series of economic reforms and there may still be some time before the economy turns around, and Bajwa appears to have been on board for those reforms. So for a political party that is brand new to power, is dealing with major crises and does not have the kind of established voter base, supporters in the bureaucracy, judiciary, lawyers groups etc that the PMLN & PPP do, it makes sense that they would want Bajwa, whom they know very well by now, to continue.

a local politician can use the same rhetoric of comfort from a very early stage too.

instead of creating laws to deter political exploitation it seems the incompetent government is doing the exact opposite. nepotism has increased two folds along with corruption.

and i don't even need to entertain flawed doctrine of fraction between civil and military arms of the country.

it is not 2007

 

[blain2]

The PTI feels comfortable with Bajwa. They feel there is a renewed civilian-military cooperative dynamic and the 2 are on the same page on many critical issues after a long time. The PTI has also gone through a very painful series of economic reforms and there may still be some time before the economy turns around, and Bajwa appears to have been on board for those reforms. So for a political party that is brand new to power, is dealing with major crises and does not have the kind of established voter base, supporters in the bureaucracy, judiciary, lawyers groups etc that the PMLN & PPP do, it makes sense that they would want Bajwa, whom they know very well by now, to continue.


Please see my response above.

AM, long time!

Good to see you still posting.

Yara, institutionally PTI should feel comfortable with the Army and not with an individual. Army as an institute can align to PTI's vision and it would be in their interest to invest in other officers who take on the baton from Gen Bajwa (who in my humble opinion should gracefully retire from service after his 6 month extension is over).

Strategically, I too realize there are a lot of in-motion things but that'll remain the case even 3 years down the line. The ONLY reason this extension is being pushed, again in my very humble opinion, is that there is external pressure to keep Bajwa in the saddle. And by this I specifically mean the US. The US wants Bajwa to see the Afghan end game through and be the consistent interlocutor that they have been dealing with. They want to bring the military-military relations back on an even keel with Pakistan post Afghan settlement and this is the reason that the GoP and the military are both pushing this case (also the ask for an in-camera session with the courts etc. is an indication that external considerations are at play which cannot be discussed openly).

 

[Darth Vader]

Pakistan had never faced a situation like this in the past 2 decades. Firstly, there is a war-like situation at eastern fronts. Secondly, its not political favour because Pakistan needs stability at this point economically, and security of the country is directly linked with it ( internal and external ). And CPEC is another reason so even if you call it political favour even then it's in favour of Pakistan because the country needs political stability as well. So in my opinion, it's justifiable in every aspect.

Pakistan had faced much worse situation already and came out with flying colours.
Army as institution is fulfilling this role not just one person.

 

[El Sidd]

US

I have some strong reservations specially regards to Trump and Mediating and A370.

 

[Darth Vader]

what evidence do you want? they are not going to share state secrets with you! Now if you think everything is just hunky dory than God help us!

Since Pakistans Independence when things were Hunky Dory ?
State Secrets ? Hahah nice one.
Well PM didnt shared those secrets with president as well when he signed the extension
Please let me know When Generals Death Star is ready.