Arjun Mk2 will use Leclerc and Merkava components

[damiendehorn]

I am not saying its a bad tank, its been in dev for a long time. The only way to know how good or bad the arjun is, will be if its selected by any other country other then india. When it has to compete for international sales and comparatively tested by prospective buyers outside india will we know!

The Markava is meant to be a briliant tank, but then its only used by israel, so hasn't been sold internationaly,though it has seen action.

 

[Laughing_soldier]

The weight is still ok..
Considering the Deserts in the southern border have generally hard terrain.. if one was to call them deserts...

i have question to you and all other senior members about this. if a 60 ton tank can roll over easily in sandy deserts than it should do well in plains of north india. but there are some misconceptions that lighter tanks like T-90 will better in muddy plain terrains. while we see arjun developed and initially tested in the muddy plains of avadhi near chennai.

 

[Laughing_soldier]

I am not saying its a bad tank, its been in dev for a long time. The only way to know how good or bad the arjun is, will be if its selected by any other country other then india. When it has to compete for international sales and comparatively tested by prospective buyers outside india will we know!

The Markava is meant to be a briliant tank, but then its only used by israel, so hasn't been sold internationaly,though it has seen action.

israeli, japanese, south korean tanks are not usually exported. does it mean they are not tested?

A tank is good for a force if it is advanced in features and meets the requirements.

 

[damiendehorn]

true, but thats not what i am saying. To many outsiders it seems indians are all saying this is the best tank ever, while other non indians say its a pile of crap. Now indians will retort its been tested by the indian army and proved to be superior to the t90, well the indian establishment isn't lilkely to say we make poor eqp would be the reply.

this debate has been going on for years now, your also right in saying " A tank is good for a force if it is advanced in features and meets the requirements". what i would like to know if this tank will be put on the international market, and if it will ever find a buyer? then it will have to be tested against the best available.

 

[angeldemon_007]

CUMMINS is not indian company, it is American.......... and for got sake compare the title of your link and the thread.

he didn't said Cummins was Indian company...

How did the figure of 5 million poped up?

You are right, its a mistake....i think we should wait a couple more months...

Cummins India is an Indian company , 49% stake is Indian. It manufactures and develops in India.

But still important thing is....if that engine was developed by Cummins India or its a product of Cummins (the US based company).

The FMBT will be indigenous based on arjuns or on the learnings of Arjun

Thats the problem, FMBT will be a complete new platform with 50ton weight....as far as learning from arjun is concerned well thats true, the learning from Arjun willbe used in FMBT. Its the same analogy as Dhruv and LCH....

Right now army gave the preproduction order of Mk2 ,once it completed its trail ,am sure Arjun will win some 400-500 more units from Army ...

I also think the same....I think t55 will be replaced by mk2 and it should be....i mean fmbt will be ready by 2020 and by that time most of our MBTs will become unfit for operations...it will be like rate of phasing out will be more than induction...we won't be able to maintain our fleet of 4k-5k MBT unless we place an order for mk2...

Also i think with mk2, IA will start to rethink....it will definitely be better....

The only way to know how good or bad the arjun is, will be if its selected by any other country other then india. When it has to compete for international sales and comparatively tested by prospective buyers outside india will we know!

To many outsiders it seems indians are all saying this is the best tank ever, while other non indians say its a pile of crap.

Well its true...but not necessary....we can call for Independent evaluation team from Germany, US, Israel, Russia and France to evaluate this mbt along-with IA's evaluating team (we have done this earlier also but only israelis were called then) and these teams can give us pros and cons which will help in FMBT(just similar to the conference were we called people from Germany, US, Russia and Israel to talk on FMBT)...or we can conduct a war-game, like Red Flag in US were many countries will participate and there we can also analyze our MBTs with respect to others...We have good relations will all the above countries and i think they will accept the offer for such kind of war game especially in India as we have all possible terrain for a MBT...

Now indians will retort its been tested by the indian army and proved to be superior to the t90, well the indian establishment isn't lilkely to say we make poor eqp would be the reply.

Well thats why we even called Israelis also and they also gave us heads up and thats why indians oppose when someone says its a failure. We as indians never trust DRDO or even IA now...but when israelis said it changed everything....

while we see arjun developed and initially tested in the muddy plains of avadhi near chennai.

It depends on soil and its texture and as far as avadhi and northen plains are concerned they are not the same....to make sure whether arjun works there or not, you have to place arjun there...

Northern plains is an important area....i don't think any mbt can enter into service without being tested over there...i think IA would have tested Arjun in Punjab or Haryana or UP....

Also weight of mbt doesnot matter in this case, its the ground pressure that matters and its better than t90.....in short if t90 can perform there then so can Arjun...

But i don't know what will be the pressure in case of mk2 as specifications are not clear yet...we have to wait untill summer when trials will start....
But roughly.....
If weight of mk2=60 tons and its surface area is the same as mk1, then the ground pressure for mk2 will be areound 0.86 (arjun mk1=0.84, t90=0.938).
So i still doubt t90 operating better than arjun on northern plains at-least based on weight or ground pressure.....

Source for t90 weight can be wrong :
Weapon and Technology: T90 main battle tank

 

[SQ8]

i have question to you and all other senior members about this. if a 60 ton tank can roll over easily in sandy deserts than it should do well in plains of north india. but there are some misconceptions that lighter tanks like T-90 will better in muddy plain terrains. while we see arjun developed and initially tested in the muddy plains of avadhi near chennai.

Depends on weight distribution on the treads..
The greater the tread area.. the less pounds per inch I guess on the surface.. so theoretically... even more heavier machinery may be able to operate in the muddy plains.
It is still a good idea to stick to lighter equipment in those areas.. for more than this reason..
Although not a rule..

 

[ramu]

Let us hold our horses and wait for the trials of MK2. No one can be more critical and quality conscious other than the IA when it comes to evaluating ingenious/ semi ingenious equipment from DRDO.

 

[archangel]

^^^
Even then we would have recieved one of the best instead of a scrapped Chinese mbt which even chinese think is not battle-worthy but when inducted in PA, it becomes the best and magically turns into indigenous...
Also on induction in PA, Ukranian t80 miraculously turns into a world class mbt which is even better than t90 which is apparently the best mbt in Russia...
buddy its now time you should think about yourself...

The best Chinese MBT Type 99 has a first hit rate of ~85% only when it is static, while our Arjun has First hit probability of ~90% when on the move, and the Pakistanis use a rather "not so brilliant PLA tank platform" for their tank and even then they dare to teach us about making tanks...... My goodness, Pakis are, no doubt, DUMB or foolish enough to not accept that they are, well, DUMB......

BTW, VEDSAR is there, at least Wikipedia's article on Arjun boasts of it....... And its highly usable as it tells Arjun about the most suitable way of reaching a point, keeping in mind the distance to be covered and the materials that have to be encountered en route.......

Arjun is a very good platform, only marred by long construction times, corruption & bribery among officials, reluctance of Indian Army to indigenous products and various cases of sabotage......

Also, it is believed that the Arjun MK-2 will be 90% indigenous except for some electricals and hydraulics, which clearly contradicts with the above article..... Let's wait and watch...... The transition of Dhruv to LCH (a magnificent one, indeed ) has filled me with a lot of expectation from the local products and lets' just hope for the maximum of the so-called "impossible" innovation be converted to truth in due time for use in our Arjun MK-2!!!!

 

[axisofevil]

true, but thats not what i am saying. To many outsiders it seems indians are all saying this is the best tank ever, while other non indians say its a pile of crap. Now indians will retort its been tested by the indian army and proved to be superior to the t90, well the indian establishment isn't lilkely to say we make poor eqp would be the reply.

this debate has been going on for years now, your also right in saying " A tank is good for a force if it is advanced in features and meets the requirements". what i would like to know if this tank will be put on the international market, and if it will ever find a buyer? then it will have to be tested against the best available.

I will honestly take any 'outsiders' opinion seriously but most 'outsiders' who belittle india on this forum consistently are Pakistani's, Bangla's, and Chinese members who are usually responding with a very biased view. Not all but enough to give me that feeling..and enough to make it a point to just ignore folks. India and Indians are quite happy to be able to produce missiles, satellites, rockets, ships, fighters and now tanks. Sure, it is a long continous process and the process might produce the best product but in the end, with due effort we will get there.

 

[archangel]

Probably not, that's Leclerc tank top.

Please elaborate with some evidence.....

That tank has Iron Fist on it and Neither does Le-Clerc come in this colour (Desert camo - not sure, though) and nor does it have Iron Fist, so how is it a Le Clerc Top, please explain!!!!!!!! Also, it has a curved turret not a squared of one as in that pic!!!!!

 

[angeldemon_007]

^^^
I think it could be leopard..........

 

[tanlixiang28776]

The best Chinese MBT Type 99 has a first hit rate of ~85%

Exactly where did you get this figure from? It better not be wikipedia or a forum.

Truly I want to know.

 

[desimorty]

its not laughable to assume the Arjun did best the T-90. Even on paper it does.
So considering these factors over the T-90.
The Arjun has:
lower ground pressure, even though it weighs more, so that means its better in desert and marsh.
Suspension not only on the chasis but the turret! a smooth ride no matter where you are.
RIfled gun, distinct advantage with disadvatages. Provides HESH rounds, thats basically a bunker or tanks worst nightmare, pending on how you look at it. Greater accuracy. But reduced barrel life.
Biggest difference being in weight. The arjun is a heavy MBT, the T-90 not so much. The Arjun provides a sperated ammo compartment! thats something even the Chinese or Pakistanis yet to have.
With all this, you would have to assume, the arjun has better accuracy, while even moving, and overall performance, expecially in terms to crew comfort and safety.

 

[Tshering22]

I bet this idiot sengupta cannot make out the difference between a tank and an artillery gun... let alone compare different tanks. Wonder how do jokers like these get to write defense related stuff.

 

[angeldemon_007]

No pics of Arjun mk2 yet..... ???/