Arjun MK-2 tanks facing Smokey driver chamber in latest tests

[he-man]

Do not make a general statement than. Army may not be happy with some stuff so as air force since they apply different criterion for foreign and Desi stuff? Had they tested T 90 and Su 30 and laid down stringent criterion like Arjun and LCA? Hal have to work hard for 10 years to remove bugs from Su 30. There are so many problems with T 90 at present.

When they applied same criterion in MMRCA, even Mig 35, Grippen, F 16 and F 18 failed.

are u serious here??
when 80% of parts of arjun and lca are foreign then how can u compare them as india suff with the competition??
u can't.problem is even then drdo has failed to rectify faults.
i agree that our procurements are questionable too like still using useless t-72 tanks against arjuns.for once drdo has delivered a good machine and in some years hopefully we will start producing its components too

 

[HariPrasad]

are u serious here??
when 80% of parts of arjun and lca are foreign then how can u compare them as india suff with the competition??

Can you pl elaborate? Give the source of 80%.

Except engine and some part of RADAR almost everything in Tejas is indiginized. Except 2 to 4 avionics, everything is indigenous. Lots of Sukhoi MKI parts are repleced by Indian design part. Composite replaced many MKI metal parts. Recently ordered Su of Russia uses Almost all avionics of LCA, Mission computer and Radar computer.

 

[Black Widow]

i have complaints only on the issue of foreign components.
at least we should have taken some steps 10 years buck and still are not willing.there is only so much a psu can do,,,u need profit hungry private players to deliver.psu employees have fixed salary,no danger of getting fired so obviously have lesser motivation just like a govt doctor,teacher or a lawyer!!

There are many logic to pacify you.
1. Why reinvent wheel?
2. Unless there is mass production what is the need for building nut bolts? Why don't buy them from market?
3. Why take chance using unproven/underdevelopment sub-component?
4. Arjuna is just a prototype, The engine will replace with desi engine if Army ask 500+ tank.

Arjuna just need Army support and faith..

 

[he-man]

Can you pl elaborate? Give the source of 80%.

Except engine and some part of RADAR almost everything in Tejas is indiginized. Except 2 to 4 avionics, everything is indigenous. Lots of Sukhoi MKI parts are repleced by Indian design part. Composite replaced many MKI metal parts. Recently ordered Su of Russia uses Almost all avionics of LCA, Mission computer and Radar computer.

Indigenous? Dhruv advanced light helicopters are '90% foreign' - Times Of India
Rediff On The NeT:CAG drops a bombshell on DRDO

Can you pl elaborate? Give the source of 80%.

Except engine and some part of RADAR almost everything in Tejas is indiginized. Except 2 to 4 avionics, everything is indigenous. Lots of Sukhoi MKI parts are repleced by Indian design part. Composite replaced many MKI metal parts. Recently ordered Su of Russia uses Almost all avionics of LCA, Mission computer and Radar computer.

Indigenisation: a false debate | Business Standard
Kaveri Engine | Corruption In DRDO

 

[HariPrasad]

Indigenous? Dhruv advanced light helicopters are '90% foreign' - Times Of India
Rediff On The NeT:CAG drops a bombshell on DRDO

You fail to provide the source for Arjun and LCA. The post you quoted are 3 years and 14 years old.

Even some TOT stuff like MKI is not 90 % foreign.

 

[he-man]

There are many logic to pacify you.
1. Why reinvent wheel?
2. Unless there is mass production what is the need for building nut bolts? Why don't buy them from market?
3. Why take chance using unproven/underdevelopment sub-component?
4. Arjuna is just a prototype, The engine will replace with desi engine if Army ask 500+ tank.

Arjuna just need Army support and faith..

we are not reinventing the wheel................we cannot manufacture the wheel which is serious
nut bolts??engine,radar,avionics are all foreign and u think they are nut bolts??
are u smoking??
arjun is a prototype??who told u??so we inducted 124 prototypes and will induct 124 others,wow
yes last point is right,army must support it

 

[Black Widow]

Indigenous? Dhruv advanced light helicopters are '90% foreign' - Times Of India
Rediff On The NeT:CAG drops a bombshell on DRDO


Indigenisation: a false debate | Business Standard
Kaveri Engine | Corruption In DRDO

Component can be foreign, But its truly Indian.. You know BMW and Mercs buy there components from Indian manufacturer? SR71 was made up of Russian Titanium? Lets not fall in trap of %ge of Indian.. Lets focus on final product...

There are million of component in such machines, you can not make all. Its not financially advisable.

 

[HariPrasad]

Indigenous? Dhruv advanced light helicopters are '90% foreign' - Times Of India
Rediff On The NeT:CAG drops a bombshell on DRDO


Indigenisation: a false debate | Business Standard
Kaveri Engine | Corruption In DRDO

None of your link support your argument of 80% foreign Part.

 

[Black Widow]

we are not reinventing the wheel................we cannot manufacture the wheel which is serious
nut bolts??engine,radar,avionics are all foreign and u think they are nut bolts??
are u smoking??
arjun is a prototype??who told u??so we inducted 124 prototypes and will induct 124 others,wow
yes last point is right,army must support it

I will give you point to point clarification..

1. LCA Landing gear, First we used russian, now We are using Indian.
2. LCA ejection seat, We used British "Martin Becker" seats, Now we are using our
3. Onboard oxygen generator, earlier it was foreign, now we are making own.

Radar, Engine are big components, No one can replace it soon. It will take time..

 

[he-man]

You fail to provide the source for Arjun and LCA. The post you quoted are 3 years and 14 years old.

Even some TOT stuff like MKI is not 90 % foreign.

really??
so u think we have started producing stuff now
the article says that arjun is 50% foreign(not 80%) but dhruv is 90% foreign

about mki u are so sadly mistaken .the truth is this
The following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

source:

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena
only thing of value is radar warning receiver,rest of the stuff is pretty simple
and these things don't make even 5% of mki

I will give you point to point clarification..

1. LCA Landing gear, First we used russian, now We are using Indian.
2. LCA ejection seat, We used British "Martin Becker" seats, Now we are using our
3. Onboard oxygen generator, earlier it was foreign, now we are making own.

Radar, Engine are big components, No one can replace it soon. It will take time..

exactly
my only point being there is nothing wrong to accept these things,yes surely we will get there too
but once we start boasting instead of focussing on weaknesses,we are doomed

 

[HariPrasad]

really??
so u think we have started producing stuff now
the article says that arjun is 50% foreign(not 80%) but dhruv is 90% foreign

about mki u are so sadly mistaken .the truth is this
The following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

source:

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena
only thing of value is radar warning receiver,rest of the stuff is pretty simple
and these things don't make even 5% of mki


exactly
my only point being there is nothing wrong to accept these things,yes surely we will get there too
but once we start boasting instead of focussing on weaknesses,we are doomed

Pl provide the Link that it is Just 5% of total value.

Do you know how much EW suit and Avionics cost in a plane? How much Spectra cost out of Rafale?

 

[he-man]

Pl provide the Link that it is Just 5% of total value.

Do you know how much EW suit and Avionics cost in a plane? How much Spectra cost out of Rafale?

MAN READ IT
its not full ew suite,just rwr and some small components
rest all-jammers,maws,radar,irst,flare dispenser,targetting pods,weapons,engines,frame is russian
i think it may even be<5% forget about being 5%

 

[MilSpec]

sorry to say but i am rather unique.lol
i don't care for what fanboys think,rhetoric is what u are trying(along with scores others here) without any proff whatso ever
stop living in speculatons and accept the reasons for failure of drdo,hal and bel to deliver.

everyone knows that BEL and OFB are total leeches and just survive on tot orders that they get to produce something without a shred of innovation.
drdo better,but ultimately need to improve
hal more or less like drdo

the worst psu award must go to gtre................
i don't care what ppl say,truth is all are getting kickbacks and no one wants private industry entry as it will eat away these kickbacks

Wow... plz tell me more... this is very educative.. Can you point me towards more of the failures in HAL, DRDO and their fallacy in "planning" as you said and the cure for the same...

Also sir, I would I highly appreciate, methods to improve manufacturing regime, design planning regime, just in general so i can learn a thing or two...

thanks in advance...

autoloader??
smoothbore gun??which tank are we talking about here

just wanted to point out that I hope you realize it is easier to manufacture a smooth bore compared to a rifled barrel...

 

[indiatester]

@he-man , when you cook at home, do you buy any ingredients from outside? Do you still call that home cooked food or "foreign food"?
When you undertake any project, you have to play to your strengths. In our company, we make many components ourselves, but we still buy similar components from outside. Reason: They are cheaper for the product we have in mind.
We also ensure that we have a second source. The product will second source is also made and qualified.

Going 100% or even close to 100% just does not make any economic sense. Home food still tastes good and is healthy too!

 

[he-man]

Wow... plz tell me more... this is very educative.. Can you point me towards more of the failures in HAL, DRDO and their fallacy in "planning" as you said and the cure for the same...

Also sir, I would I highly appreciate, methods to improve manufacturing regime, design planning regime, just in general so i can learn a thing or two...

thanks in advance...

wow,no one gets impressed with these fancy lines,u must know
the onus to prove that drdo has achieved something lies on u,which u for obvious reasons cannot do.so u resort to all these planning and execution lectures.
they are professionals and its their job to plan and execute but its our duty to point out where they have failed.i am specifically saying that psu's cannot compete with private companies.its the trend worldwide except for the communist countries.
even in russia there are lot of psu's that compete with each other(recently absorbed and united under ROSTEC and UAC)
we have all the talented ppl in drdo etc but in the end its a psu and just like a govt doctor,lawyer,teacher............they are not interested enough due to permanent nature of their job and no pressure.they will keep om getting salaries whether they make something or not.
if u dispute this,i am sorry to say,we don't need to talk further and u can keep on glorifying drdo

i will of course avail my freedom of expression too

@he-man , when you cook at home, do you buy any ingredients from outside? Do you still call that home cooked food or "foreign food"?
When you undertake any project, you have to play to your strengths. In our company, we make many components ourselves, but we still buy similar components from outside. Reason: They are cheaper for the product we have in mind.
We also ensure that we have a second source. The product will second source is also made and qualified.

Going 100% or even close to 100% just does not make any economic sense. Home food still tastes good and is healthy too!

man ur analogy is faulty
i don't want 100% but would expect something like even 50%
as already shown by me in previous post we are not even near 50%

Wow... plz tell me more... this is very educative.. Can you point me towards more of the failures in HAL, DRDO and their fallacy in "planning" as you said and the cure for the same...

Also sir, I would I highly appreciate, methods to improve manufacturing regime, design planning regime, just in general so i can learn a thing or two...

thanks in advance...


just wanted to point out that I hope you realize it is easier to manufacture a smooth bore compared to a rifled barrel...

but what about autoloader??
we have 4 member crew in arjun right??
also smoothbore is the norm in tanks as all the missiles can be fired by it.