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Arihant propels India to elite club

I dont think it is difficult to increase the range of current missiles...... We have the technology and know how to do it.... But do we have the political will??? I guess No.....

When it comes to America, they cannot be trusted.... because for them the only thing matters is "National Interests".... As long as India suits them them will support us..... The day we go against them........

The prime example infront of us is "Pakistan"..... Pakistan and US had a great relationship before..... Post 9/1 and we all know how that relationship is shaping....

Uncle sam cannot be trusted......


You should have national interests which wont harm USA's interests if you want really want them. for e.g England and other European nations except France.

Pakistan choose India instead of America in crisis, in opposite sense..
 
You should have national interests which wont harm USA's interests if you want really want them. for e.g England and other European nations except France.

Pakistan choose India instead of America in crisis, in opposite sense..

The problem is how you manage your national interest without clashing american interests......
 
lets see how long it takes the mighty blue ocean indian navy to collide this "elite club certificate" with some fishing trawler or sink it in the harbour

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Yes that is a very challenging situation. But the "theoretical attacking nation" will be considering this point as well, in fact it may add to the deterrence capability if they think the submarines may still fire their arsenals, and act as a deterrent not only to the attacking nation, but to others as well.

What I don't get though, is why India is always limiting the range of their own missiles? To avoid ruffling feathers in America?

Even if we did not have any problems with America, we would still want our missiles to be able to cover the globe if necessary. That's the point of deterrence.
Sir,You are china and a P5 nation.As you can read on net that even a 53million $ space launch attracted criticism across the western media.
 
Earlier this year, India’s first indigenously built nuclear submarine quietly pushed out of its base for sea trials, its 6,000-tonne, 111-metre bulk powered by an 83-megawatt uranium reactor. The submarine is capable of lurking effectively undetectable at depth almost indefinitely, as long as there is food for its 110-man crew. In early 2015, if all goes well, INS Arihant will get the nuclear missiles it is designed to carry.

India will join a club of just six nations with nuclear submarines carrying ballistic missiles — and a doctrinal headache. For more than a decade now, India has kept warheads separate from the missiles that carry them, in an effort to prevent accidents. In times of crisis — like the 2001-02 standoff with Pakistan — delivery platforms and warheads have been brought together, but by some accounts, even then, they were not mated or joined together for delivery.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi was briefed on classified reports calling for a full-time four-star General to take charge of India’s nuclear arsenal — and the case of Arihant explains why.

Nuclear challenge

Last week, Mr. Modi received the most secret briefing he would get — on his role as head of the Nuclear Command Authority, which is empowered to order the nuclear missiles on the Arihant , along with other weapons in the strategic arsenal, to be fired. Mr. Modi, government sources say, was briefed on progress in the submarine tests, as well as the status of the missiles that will arm it.


Arihant propels India to elite club

In March, the Defence Research and Development Organisation conducted the first test of the K-4 missile —capable of delivering a two-tonne nuclear warhead on targets up to 3,000 kilometres away.

Fitted four apiece on to the three nuclear submarines India plans to operate, K-4 will ensure that the country has what experts call an assured second-strike capability — the capacity to ensure retaliation even if the rest of the arsenal is wiped out in a surprise first-strike.

India’s nuclear arsenal, as that of Pakistan, has been physically separated from the delivery platforms — the missiles controlled by the Army, and soon the Navy, as well as the Air Force’s combat jets. The logic is simple: keeping warheads and missiles apart reduces the risks of accidents or unauthorised use.

“For obvious reasons,” says Arun Vishwanathan, a leading nuclear-weapons expert at the National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, “a nuclear submarine is going to have to carry warheads as well as missiles. This raises significant issues of control, which need to be worked out.”

In addition, nuclear submarines can lose contact with their bases — and officers must decide if this has happened because of technical problems, or because their nation has been obliterated.

In 1961, the Soviet submarine B-59, believing that war had broken out, almost fired a 10-kilotonne warhead at the U.S. Flotilla; sub-commander Vasili Arkhipov, one of three officers who had to consent to the decision, alone demurred — averting a nuclear apocalypse.

Arihant propels India to elite club - The Hindu

That's very good news. :cheers:

It will be interesting to see what they are planning to succeed Arihant class. The new subs, I believe, will have displacement of at least 10,500 tons and will be longer, as they will have to carry bigger, heavier K-4s (at lest 12 if we look at CGI of SSS-I-12/S 5 SSBN).


That's not Arihant.

There was a movie where a US submarine was told to attack Pakistan with nukes and the captain refused until he got a confirmed order from the president. there was a thread on that movie on PDF also but I don't recall the name of the movie. If anyone can tell it will be great.

You are talking about Last Resort which was a serial.

The problem is communications. Nuke subs are supposed to lurk deep underwater to avoid detection. This would cause a communication blackout unless the sub surfaces or its antennas are put out above the water. VLF radio waves (3–30 khs) can penetrate seawater to a depth of approximately 20 meters. Hence a submarine at shallow depth can use these frequencies. A vessel more deeply submerged might use a buoy on a long cable equipped with an antenna. The buoy rises to a few meters below the surface, and may be small enough to remain undetected by enemy sonar/ radar. Because of the narrow bandwidth, VLF radio signals cannot carry audio, and only transmit text messages at a slow data rate.

However, electromagnetic waves in the ELF/SLF frequency range can penetrate seawater to depths of hundreds of meters, allowing communication with submarines at their operating depths. Building an ELF transmitter is a formidable challenge, as they have to work at incredibly long wavelengths.

Due to the technical difficulty of building an ELF transmitter, the US and Russia are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication facilities, with India being in the process of constructing one.

The Indian Navy is constructing ELF communication facilities to communicate with its Arihant class and Akula class submarines. This facility is expected to be operational by 2015.

Please give source for claim.
 
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For deterrence.

It is true that India and America get along fairly well now (relatively anyway), but even back in the 1970's America was sending aircraft carriers against India.

It makes no sense that America can target India with nuclear weapons, but India cannot target America with nuclear weapons. Which basically means you are replacing "deterrence" with "hoping for their good will".

Not a good idea in my opinion. India clearly has the technology for longer range missiles.

India badly needs the West that it is not willing to offend them to the extent they think of placing sanctions from restricting Indian workers to arms imports.

China does not really give a crap what the west thinks when it comes to national security and so has built both hydrogen bombs and ICBMs. Apart from Russia, only China is thought to have the capability to obliterate the a west off the face of the planet.
 
Please give source for claim.

It's known fact that India is constructing ELF communication facility under secretive Project codenamed Varsha .


" 1.6 billion (US$27 million) were sanctioned for the project in the 2011-12 budget, of which 580 million (US$10 million) were for civil works and the balance 1 billion (US$17 million) were for setting up a VLF communication system "


INS Varsha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please give source for claim.



WAFF | Asia & Pacific Defence Forum | World's Armed Forces Forum: India makes headway with ELF site construction


Imagery taken by DigitalGlobe in
January 2013 provides an update
on the construction of India's new
Extremely Low-Frequency (ELF)
facility in the south of the country.
The construction began in March
2012, when Admiral Nirmal
Verma, chief of the naval staff of
the Indian Navy (IN), laid the
cornerstone for the ELF facility
near the village of Vijaya
Narayanam, about 23 km north of
the Kudankulam Nuclear Power
Plant in Tamil Nadu. It is co-
located with the IN's Very Low-
Frequency (VLF) communications
station, which transmits at 18.2
kHz.
The ELF station, which is believed
to be being built by Indian firm
Larsen & Toubro, will have
nuclear-hardened bunkers and is
expected to be commissioned in
2015. Russia is closely associated
with the research and
development for the facility,
which is expected to be similar to
Russia's own ELF transmitter at
the ZEVS facility near Murmansk.
ELF transmission is used to
communicate very brief
commands to submerged
submarines. Such transmissions
can travel thousands of miles and
through extended depths of
seawater. ELF transmissions are
generally initiated during
circumstances in which
conventional communications
channels have been disrupted or
destroyed.


http://janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?ID=1065976790



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This was the most tricky part of that article....

possibly not.even USA rectified their doctrine which allowed their sub commanders to launch nuke if their ExO concurs.same thing was with Russian navy with their "Nijampolit"(political officer).now in USA,one can launch nuke only after US President agrees.same thing is with India probably.
 

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