Argentina Rejects American, Russian & Indian Jets Selects JF-17

[fitpOsitive]

Even if officially confirmed, we should wait till the contract is signed

And then ???

 

[BRAVO_]

so 5 Is forced Newzeland to call back their team because UK wanted to put pressure at pakistan to discard JFTs deal with Argentina, because first Sweden then Korea they were the spoiler and now they wanted Pakistan to refuse but too late .. once sun never set on British empire and now they shrink to a tiny island... it reminds me that every empire deemed to parish but the name of God will live forever
كُلُّ مَنْ عَلَيْهَا فَانٍ
All that is on the earth is perishable
وَيَبْقَى وَجْهُ رَبِّكَ ذُو الْجَلَالِ وَالْإِكْرَامِ
And everlasting is the Entity of your Lord, the Most Majestic and the Most Honourable.

 

[FuturePAF]

And then ???

And see a plane is delivered. Once a plane is delivered we can say they have actually inducted the JF-17. The example of the first three Nigerian JF-17s denotes their commitment to the platform. Wether at just three aircraft or the full 40, Nigeria will have to maintain the ecosystem (of parts and support services) of it wants to keep the plane operational.

 

[Dalit]

LOL Notice how Indians are signed in as guests LMAO

 

[KAKhan]

Argentina and Israel are in bed together and JF-17 Block III or any related tech will be fully examined by them and strategies made

PAF should also look at countering potentialities of seeing a JF-17 in Pakistani markings flying / intruding in Pakistani airspace but not actually owned by PAF or being used as false flag elsewhere.....

 

[Gripen9]

the ejection seat for JF-17 is made by a British company, Martin-Baker.

There is a chinese ejection seat as well. Used on MyanmarAF JF17s.

 

[HAIDER]

Argentina allocates 664M for JF-17 Block III purchase in FY2022


PorGASTÓN DUBOIS
-
16/09/2021
View attachment 778401


Yesterday, the draft budget for fiscal year 2022 was presented to the National Congress, which includes a request of US$ 664 million for the acquisition of JF-17 Thunder Block III fighters.

Thus, it is now clear which is the choice of the Argentine Air Force (FAA) for its next supersonic fighter, discarding the offers from Russia, USA and India.




The budget requested would be enough for the purchase of 12 JF-17 Thunder in its latest and most modern standard, taking into account the rumored price of 50 million per unit (which the Government would have tried to lower). Also, within this U$S 664 million, 20 million are contemplated for the repair and modernization of the runways and infrastructure that would host the new aircrafts.

So far, this is the clearest sign in favor of the Chinese option, which evidences the Air Force’s firm intention to complete the purchase as soon as possible. However, no one can claim victory yet. Until the contract is signed and the first funds are disbursed, there may still be counter-offers from other countries.


First prototype of the JF-17 Thunder Block III, the one that the Argentine Air Force desires.

And it should also be remembered that in 2015, during Agustín Rossi’s first term as Argentina’s Minister of Defense, a budget of U$D 360 million had been authorized for the purchase of 14 IAI Kfir, which was then frozen in view of the imminent change of government. And finally, the administration of President Mauricio Macri decided to dismiss the acquisition of the Israeli fighters.

Therefore, the presence of the Thunder in the 2022 budget should be taken only as a purchase intention (a serious and firm indication, that’s for sure), and not as a deal already closed. One cannot underestimate the current economic and political situation in the country, in which the incorporation of modern weapon systems may not be seen as a priority.

Argentina allocates 664M for JF-17 Block III purchase in FY2022

Yesterday, the draft budget for fiscal year 2022 was presented to the National Congress, which includes a request of US$ 664 million for the acquisition of JF-1

www.aviacionline.com

664 mil ma aik darjan ( 1 dozen) tyra one else they need.... no one can give such deal...

 

[PradoTLC]

More like the Toyota Camry.

a better anolgy would be JF-17 is a Toyota 86 and Rafale / F-15K would be a Ferrari

 

[Gripen9]

Yes. Malaysia will likely buy FA-50. They have good relations with SK And others in the region have already bought that aircraft.

Tejas actually has a slightly higher chance of a sale to Malaysia than JF, but only if India can get uttam and their indigenous jammer ready in time, neither of which are ready, because the current ones on the Tejas are Israeli and Malaysia will not buy those. That’s also taking into consideration Malaysia ignores the fact that nobody has wanted the Tejas so far due to its piss-poor performance (MK-1 variant).

JFs chances went down substantially with chinas actions, even if the Malaysian government is okay with such a deal, which I think they will be, they’ll be pissing off their public, something they don’t want to do.

JF is the most capable and the cheapest of the three, and it indeed did have the highest chances, even if chinas actions seem minor, the public opinion can effect the purchase a lot, no government wants to lose voters.

A substantial portion of Malay are ethnic Chinese and quite prosperous.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

There are no two versions of the aircraft. There is only the JF-17 thunder. FC-1 is a designation. Not a version. The aircraft will still be built in Pakistan and use all the same components, only the ejection seat will be changed as was done in the Burmese models (which were also built in Pakistan).

The only other component in the JF that had some significant western tech in it was the EW suite (has input from Spain’s Indra system) which has already been swapped for a new Chinese internal EW in all models of block 3, including the ones we will be using.

The ejection seat and even the engine (which may be changeable to the Chinese one in the future As an option) do not make the aircraft a different version, it’s just like you spec a car with different options depending on your need. Countries can opt for the Chinese parts if there is an issue with sanctions (As with the british seats here) or simply because they want to.

However it is true that the marketing and dealing for this sale was done by China, for political reasons and our ties to the UK, when this was not an issue, as in the case of Nigeria and Malaysia, Pakistan did all the marketing, dealing, delivery and even training by itself, and will continue to do so. This is another advantage of a joint project. Keep in mind if the sale does go through, regardless of how Argentina pays, Pakistan will get its share of the money and profits according to whatever deal PAC and CAC have.

Keep in mind the JF-17 is a proper joint-venture, down to program ownership rights. China cannot sell this aircraft to any country without Pakistani permission, and vice versa.
While I agree there was more Chinese input on the design side of this aircraft, people think that Pakistan wasn’t involved at all, well let me tell you, the DSI and the LERX were both Pakistani designs and additions, and they are not small components of the aircraft, the Chinese prototype didn’t have them. The Countermeasure system of the aircraft was of Pakistani origin as well if I recall correctly, so was the original IFR system.
Since the aircraft being built for the PAFs needs, the majority of the flight testing team was also Pakistani pilots.
The funding of the program was also shared equally. Since then Pakistan has been working on increasing its compatibility with its own data link and weapon systems as well as trying to increase the indigenous content in it or at least increasing the amount of the aircraft manufactured locally using license or co-production (RWRs, Radars, HMDs and HUDs etc).

So to all those who sadly still think this is just a Chinese aircraft that we put our name on, please, think again, at least there was an effort, something that sadly cannot be said in most of what we make or buy. With what limited expertise we had we decided to make an effort, now we have more expertise, and hopefully someone will make another such effort sometime soon, this is how baby-steps are taken towards building your own industry after all. China started from copying and reverse engineering foreign tech, that too poorly at the start, look where they are now. Alas we have too many old-fashioned minds and too much corruption at every level to advance like they did. But one can hope.

This is a very good and informative post about Pakistani contribution in JF17 program.

 

[untitled]

Argentina and Israel are in bed together

I found 2 archived articles from 2013-14 which state that Argentina had placed an order for Kfir Block-60. Why did they cancel the deal?

 

[Keysersoze]

Argentina and Israel are in bed together and JF-17 Block III or any related tech will be fully examined by them and strategies made

PAF should also look at countering potentialities of seeing a JF-17 in Pakistani markings flying / intruding in Pakistani airspace but not actually owned by PAF or being used as false flag elsewhere.....

Hate to break it to you but the tech used is going to get out there the moment you sell to others. I think there are bigger existential threats to Pakistani sovereignty than the chance that Argentina will loan JF17s to Israel...

I found 2 archived articles from 2013-14 which state that Argentina had placed an order for Kfir Block-60. Why did they cancel the deal?

I found this

" However, according to reports abroad, Argentina's opposition was angry that the deal was signed just before the country's elections. In light of the controversy raised, the defense minister decided to postpone the signing of the deal until a new government is established. "

 

[Keysersoze]

we should not start chest thumping unless we get the payment.

Exactly! There are too many on here that celebrate before the deal is done. There are many hurdles to be jumped before this sale is complete.

 

[LeGenD]

Yes on paper and with the right marketing even a heavyweight elephant can outfo the jf17. Oh the irony of gora shaib is still the best

Today evey taxi in the UK is soda...wonder why?
But the also called taliban rag heads till they whooped their asses and made them run

Aircraft are much more complex to conceptualize and develop than automobiles. Some countries have a well-established aviation industry and legacy; something Czeck Republic does not have. Your comparison is lost on me.

American and British automobile sector have rolled out some of the most impressive automobiles in the world by the way. You can stick to Skoda nevertheless.

When you compare jet fighters, you need to keep in mind the respective weight classes and what each airframe is housing within.

- - - -

JF-17 Thunder Block 3 is 4+ generation light weight class with greater application of composites in the airframe than ever before. It features a new HUD (J-20 style), HMD/S (J-10C type), MAWS (J-10C type), KLJ-7a AESA radar system (similar to AN/APG-63v2 in capabilities), Digital FBW system (F-16 type), and Russian RD-93MA engine. DSI intake is improved and hardpoint count is also increased but IRST solution will be mounted like in earlier Blocks (ASELPOD).

- - - -

Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 5 is similar to Rafale F3R on many counts with a decent AESA radar system, embedded IRST solution and a comprehensive defensive package but offers superior data fusion and application of the Meteor BVR munition with two-way datalink support.

Successful dual firing marks major Meteor milestone

Dual firing of Meteor from Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft

www.baesystems.com

Comprehensive Praetorian defensive package and sophisticated decoys is aimed to frustrate target engagement possibilities of the opposing aircraft and A2/AD arrangements.

Two high quality engines provide substantial power to the onboard avionics to ensure best possible output in operations.

This jet fighter is one of the best in 4+ generation Medium-weight class.

- - - -

F-35 is in another league entirely. Avionics is composed of some of the most advanced sensor systems in the world which are also fully (completely) integrated and LPI optimized. The outcome is much higher level of sensor fusion, situational awareness and ability to frustrate target engagement possibilities of the opposing aircraft. All of this coupled with VLO design characteristic(s) to evade radar detection, provide See First and Shoot First luxury to the pilot in combat situations.

F-35 is equipped with a single engine but this limitation is compensated with the fact that it is the most powerful in the world. This is in line with the need to provide substantial power to the onboard avionics to ensure best possible output in operations.

- - - -

Afghan Taliban won when they realized that they could negotiate and influence hearts and minds with promises and assurances. Very impressive no doubt. All should take notes.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Aircraft are much more complex to conceptualize and develop than automobiles. Some countries have a well-established aviation industry and legacy; something Czeck Republic does not have. Your comparison is lost on me.

American and British automobile sector have rolled out some of the most impressive automobiles in the world by the way. You can stick to Skoda nevertheless.

When you compare jet fighters, you need to keep in mind the respective weight classes and what each airframe is housing within.

- - - -

JF-17 Thunder Block 3 is 4+ generation light weight class with greater application of composites in the airframe than ever before. It features a new HUD (J-20 style), HMD/S (J-10C type), MAWS (J-10C type), KLJ-7a AESA radar system (similar to AN/APG-63v2 in capabilities), Digital FBW system (F-16 type), and Russian RD-93MA engine. DSI intake is improved and hardpoint count is also increased but IRST solution will be mounted like in earlier Blocks (ASELPOD).

- - - -

Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 5 is similar to Rafale F3R on many counts with a decent AESA radar system, embedded IRST solution and a comprehensive defensive package but offers superior data fusion and application of the Meteor BVR munition with two-way datalink support.

Successful dual firing marks major Meteor milestone

Dual firing of Meteor from Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft

www.baesystems.com

Comprehensive Praetorian defensive package and sophisticated decoys is aimed to frustrate target engagement possibilities of the opposing aircraft and A2/AD arrangements.

View attachment 778989

Two high quality engines provide substantial power to the onboard avionics to ensure best possible output in operations.

This jet fighter is one of the best in 4+ generation Medium-weight class.

- - - -

F-35 is in another league entirely. Avionics is composed of some of the most advanced sensor systems in the world which are also fully (completely) integrated and LPI optimized. The outcome is much higher level of sensor fusion, situational awareness and ability to frustrate target engagement possibilities of the opposing aircraft. All of this coupled with VLO design characteristic(s) to evade radar detection, provide See First and Shoot First luxury to the pilot in combat situations.

F-35 is equipped with a single engine but this limitation is compensated with the fact that it is the most powerful in the world. This is in line with the need to provide substantial power to the onboard avionics to ensure best possible output in operations.

- - - -

Afghan Taliban won when they realized that they could negotiate and influence hearts and minds with promises and assurances. Very impressive no doubt. All should take notes.

Skoda makes some quality cars tho recently in European market their value vs kit included in package is very good.