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Argentina negotiates JF-17 fighters without anti-ship missiles

Manticore

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The command of the FAA concluded that the supply of JF-17 Block II Sino-Pakistani fighter is superior to the proposals made by the French government (Mirage 2000 fighters), by the Spanish government (Mirage F.1) and the IAI (Kfir fighters modernized).

The Argentines will try to even your corporation receives three copies of the JF-17 Block I this year, even if these aircraft are delivered lacking, among other equipment, boom refueling ( probe ) - component that could be installed later in Argentina.
Argentina negocia caças JF-17 sem mísseis antinavio (questão de doutrina, diz a FAA…) | Poder Aéreo - Informação e Discussão sobre Aviação Militar e Civil

Segundo jornal da Argentina, país negocia com a China a compra de 24 caças JF-17 | Poder Aéreo - Informação e Discussão sobre Aviação Militar e Civil


Revelados os termos da negociação argentina pelo caça JF-17 Block II | Poder Aéreo - Informação e Discussão sobre Aviação Militar e Civil
 
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I am sure that PAC has step up to increase their production numbers to about 50 each year as to support the exports to countries which includes:
Argentina
Burma
and other Asian and African countries.

But PAC should also offer them other products which they make like UAVs, Trainers.
 
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I am sure that PAC has step up to increase their production numbers to about 50 each year as to support the exports to countries which includes:
Argentina
Burma
and other Asian and African countries.

But PAC should also offer them other products which they make like UAVs, Trainers.
No. PAC has the capacity to produce 25 a year, and not one more than that. Pakistan may delay local orders for a foreign sale, maybe have China produce them, or even help set up an assembly line in Argentina.

Anyway, this all depends on how urgently Argentina wants the fighters, and/or how much they're will to pay for convenience.

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I really feel that Argentina is the key to success for the jf-17. If Argentina signs the deal, than it may very well open the flood gates.
 
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No. PAC has the capacity to produce 25 a year, and not one more than that. Pakistan may delay local orders for a foreign sale, maybe have China produce them, or even help set up an assembly line in Argentina.

Anyway, this all depends on how urgently Argentina wants the fighters, and/or how much they're will to pay for convenience.

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I really feel that Argentina is the key to success for the jf-17. If Argentina signs the deal, than it may very well open the flood gates.
Absolutely...because one happy customer is a great source of information for the next set of interested lots...however it can also boomerang should for some reason they didn't like it...
 
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This might as well be the big break that Pakistan and China have been waiting for, if the project can land a foreign customer, it will grant great impetus to Pakistan's aircraft manufacturing ambitions and will be a boon for all those who toiled to make the JF-17 a reality despite the hardships faced. With foreign orders to fulfill, regardless of who manufactures for Argentina, an additional assembly line will have to be set up in Pakistan or the capability of the existing line extended if the PAF is to meet its goal of complete overhaul of existing A-5 and F-7 squadrons.
 
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Absolutely...because one happy customer is a great source of information for the next set of interested lots...however it can also boomerang should for some reason they didn't like it...
There is always a risk, yes. Even then, the JF-17 would be a major upgrade to Argentina's air force.
 
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Air Platforms
Argentina and China agree fighter aircraft working group
Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
05 February 2015

Argentina and China are to form a working group to look at the possible introduction into Argentine Air Force (Fuerza Aérea Argentina - FAA) service of a new Chinese fighter type, it was disclosed on 5 February.

The working group, ..., will look at the possible transfer of a range of military equipment to Buenos Aries. Chief among this equipment is either the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) FC-1/JF-17 or the CAC J-10 fighter aircraft.

Ahead of any transfer of aircraft, the working group will examine means by which the FAA might integrate such aircraft into its inventory, and support them once in service. Argentina stands to receive 14 fighter aircraft should the proposed transfer go ahead, though no timelines have been revealed.


ANALYSIS

For some years now, Argentina has been trying to replace its antiquated and increasingly unserviceable Dassault Mirage IIIEA, IAI Dagger, and McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk fighter fleets with a newer and more capable type.

News of the Argentine-Chinese working group comes weeks after it was reported that Russia had courted Argentina with the possible lease of Sukhoi Su-24 'Fencer' strike aircraft. While the UK Ministry of Defence took these reports seriously enough to review the defence of the Falkland Islands, the Su-24s would have no really operational utility for the FAA, and it would appear that any proposed transfer of such aircraft is likely the result of Russia playing political games with the UK over the continuing crisis in Ukraine.

Other, more realistic, options that have been touted over recent months include surplus Spanish Mirage F1s, Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) Kfirs, and Saab Gripen E/Fs. All of these appear to have stalled for either economic or political reasons (the proposed buy of the Gripen E/F was effectively vetoed by the UK, which manufactures many of the aircraft's systems).

The Chinese FC-1/JF-17 has also been previously touted as a possible option for the FAA, so it is interesting to see it once again mentioned with this latest Argentine-Chinese agreement. The J-10, however, has not been mentioned in relation to the FAA before.

First unveiled in 2006, the J-10 bears more than a passing resemblance to the 'Euro-canard' Gripen, Dassault Rafale, and Eurofighter Typhoon fighters (it has been claimed that the J-10 was actually developed from the Israeli Aerospace Industries Lavi, which was itself modelled from the Lockheed Martin F-16).
The single-seat, single-engined, fighter has a top speed of Mach 1.8 at altitude, a service ceiling of 55,000 ft, is cleared to +9/-3 g , has a radius-of-operation of 300 n miles (555 km; 345 miles), and a payload of 6,600 kg (14,550 lb) on 11 hardpoints. Weapons options include PL-8 (Python 3) or later air-to-air missiles (AAMs) such as PL-11 or PL-12; Vympel R-73 and R-77 AAMs; C-801 or C-802 air-to-surface missiles; YJ-8K (anti-ship) or YJ-9 (anti-radiation) missiles; and up to six 1,000 lb laser-guided or free-fall bombs. There is also an internally-mounted 23 mm cannon, and the provision for a Chinese-developed infrared/laser navigation and targeting pod.
The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is believed to have a requirement for up to 300 J-10s, and its inclusion in the FAA's inventory would represent a significant capability boost for Argentina.
Argentina and China agree fighter aircraft working group - IHS Jane's 360

EXCLUSIVE: China sells fighter jets to Argentina which are able to attack Falkland Islands
ARGENTINA is to purchase sophisticated Chinese fighter jets able to attack the Falkland Islands as part of a “strategic partnership” with Beijing.
By Marco Giannangeli
PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Feb 15, 2015 | UPDATED: 09:12, Fri, Apr 24, 2015
The move, which further raised tensions in the South Atlantic last night, follows a three-day visit by President Kristina de Kirchner to Beijing last week, in which Argentina secured 15 economic agreements and significant financial investment to bolster its failing economy.
It comes after a decision by Buenos Aires to abandon talks with Vladimir Putin to secure 12 Sukhoi Su-24 'Fencer" bombers, capable of reaching Port Stanley.
Last night sources told the Sunday Express that the deal with Russia, revealed by the Sunday Express in September, had stalled after a series of delays and concerns over post-sale maintenance.
However, that failure will see Argentina now take delivery of 20 of the most advanced fighter jets in the world.
Mrs Kirchner has constantly caused concern for the Foreign Office with her campaign to generate international political support for the islands to be returned to Argentina.
Last month the Ministry of Defence revealed that the Rapier air defence system currently based on Mount Pleasant to counter any potential air threat is to be upgraded, with sources adding that the “operational drumbeat” of routine deployments are also being increased.
China has pledged more than £162billion in investments for Latin America over the next five years, and has indicated that it will write off millions loaned several years ago, allowing nations like Argentina to rebuild their economies.
Crucially, the financial package includes military equipment to re-generate Argentina’s crippled air force which, over the past 18 months, has attempted to buy aircraft from Israel, Spain and, most recently, Moscow.
In a "working group" formed by the two countries, Beijing agreed to supply around 20 FC-1/JF-17 "Thunder" fighter jets produced by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation.
The single-seat, single-engine, fighter has a top speed of Mach 1.8 at altitude of 55,000 ft and combat range of 840 miles, allowing it to comfortably fly to Port Stanley and back from the Tierra del Fuego air base in southern Argentina.
It will also carry a range of weapons including air-to-air missiles and laser guided bombs.
The collaboration will see China’s influence in the region soar as Beijing funds the projects such as the Cepernic Kirchner dams, the Belgrano Cargas railway and the Atucha nuclear plant will also generate more than 20,000 jobs.
A senior RAF source said: “The procurement of Chinese aircraft is worrying; they are modern, fast and very capable.
However, we have a robust capability in the Falklands and I imagine that de Kirchner is trying to reinforce her military to strengthen her foreign policy at the negotiating table."
Last night Justin Bronk, of the defence think-tank RUSI, said: “Argentina had been negotiating for Russian aircraft, but in fact the Fencers they were looking at are very outdated if you are looking to hold the Falklands, and they have a very poor record for aftersales service for customers.
“China’s JF-17 is based on the old Soviet Union’s Mig 21, the backbone to the Soviet air force, so it has excellent pedigree.
But it is cheaper than what Russia has to offer, brand new, and has a good reputation for being reliable and having an extremely wide armament fit.
“It is the non-Western equivalent to the Swedish Gripen, which Argentina originally tried to acquire through Brazil before the deal was stopped by Britain because it contained 30 per cent British parts.
“It would certainly allow Argentina’s air force to fly over Port Stanley, though it’s no match for RAF Typhoons and its pilots don’t have the asymmetrical training that RAF has.
In addition, we have the Type-45 destroyer which is the most formidable air defence destroyer in the world.
“This deal would give China the first proper export market for this new fighter jet, which has been developed with Pakistan, and it seems China is willing to offer Argentina very good finance terms.”
He added: “ There is definitely an aspect of trying to restore Argentinean martial pride, bearing in mind what an enormous issue the ‘Malvinas’ issue remains there.
For her to be able to say ‘we can hold the islands’ is vital for her.
“And while she is likely to be replaced by moderates when she steps down in October, it would be a mistake to think that this issue will go away.”
China have sold fighter jets to Argentina capable of attacking the Falklands | UK | News | Daily Express

Argentina Shopping for Chinese Fighter Jets
Defense Splurge Set to Include Falklands-Capable Aircraft
PanAm Post Staff March 17, 2015 at 12:07 pm

Argentina is seeking to purchase 24 advanced fighter aircraft from China, Defense Minister Agustín Rossi told press Tuesday. The jets, it was soon reported, would be capable of reaching the Falkland Islands, a South Atlantic archipelago owned by the United Kingdom but claimed by Argentina as the Islas Malvinas.
Within the next week, “the chief of staff of the Argentinean Air Force is traveling to China along with a technical delegation to analyze the possibilities” of purchasing up to 24 FC-1/JF-17 fighter jets, said Rossi.wrote British journalist Marco Giannangeli on February 15 after initial high-level talks between Buenos Aires and Beijing.announced that the Argentinean army is to receive additional funding of AR$930 million (about US$71 million). “[This is] the largest investment ever made in a long time” to equip the force, she said.includes the purchase of 120,000 new uniforms bought in China, 35 Hummers, and 30 trucks to transport troops and equipment, among others.asked a judge to bring a case against Milani, who is currently under investigation for human-rights violations during the 1976-1983 military dictatorship.
Argentina Shopping for Chinese Fighter Jets

NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE IN WORDING IN THE FIRST (JANES) ARTICLE AND THE OTHER TWO FROM POPULAR PRESS
 
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What does pak get if argentina buys jf17.
  • 50 % of money from the deal
  • Pakistani pilots will train Argentina airforce for JF17 its tactics and mission capabilities ( that depends on the deal)
  • As Argentina is not buying aircraft in major numbers so i dont think there will be any major TOT deal
 
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  • 50 % of money from the deal
  • Pakistani pilots will train Argentina airforce for JF17 its tactics and mission capabilities ( that depends on the deal)
  • As Argentina is not buying aircraft in major numbers so i dont think there will be any major TOT deal

Hi,

If Pakistan walks out of this deal with zero profit---that tantamount to massive success in itself. The recognition in itself is the prize for now.
 
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The state of the Argentinian economy is really bad. I don't think they can afford or want first world fighters for cost reasons. This is a great boon for economical yet competent suppliers like Pakistan. But quality has to be high and after sales support has to be good. Otherwise reputation will take a hit.

Witness the sale of the Indian ALH helis to the Ecuadorian Air Force. Four out of seven supplied has already crashed and now the EAF grounded the entire fleet. HAL also had to underprice the ALH by INR 520 million to win the EAF tender and thereby (I believe) take a loss.

Parrikar defends Dhruv helo after Ecuador crash - IHS Jane's 360

The hope was to gain new sales ground even at the cost of profit . The result was total financial loss and then a bad reputation and negative publicity to boot.

Granted there was probably conspiracy by the first world aerospace majors. Or Indian spares were sub-par.

Whatever the reason the lesson is clear. Approach these new product areas carefully. Especially where you are treading upon existing markets of first world manufacturers. You step on their tail - they will recoil and bite you like a rattlesnake.

And attacking Malvinas is a pipe-dream. You need money to wage a war. Argentina doesn't have any.

One last note - don't ship products on credit to a bankrupt country. :laugh:
 
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