Argentina Considering To Purchase 12 JF17C Worth 664Million Dollars

[Syntage]

Has indian solve the problem replacing UK parts in Tejas?

Its very simple for our Indian friends. They will replace whole Tejas for the refueling prob instead of changing the refueling prob and ask the Argentinians to learn to accommodate the cutting edge tech.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

Superior platform or not - I'll leave that to the FAA to figure out after they do a deeper analysis of the Tejas Mk1A as they are going to do by November 2022. On forums such as these, the bias is too strong to bother to dispel.

India has already had FAA officials visiting HAL facilities once but a second more in-depth visit is due soon.

Regarding the delivery schedule- HAL will deliver the Tejas Mk1A to FAA 36 months after a contract is signed. That is the standard industry standard and if HAL misses delivery deadlines, they will have contractual penalties (both for IAF and FAA). So once again, FAA will cater to that possibility in their overall analysis and then decide.

I'd leave it to the professionals at the FAA to figure out what fits their needs, budgets and requirements the best. As far as we can see, they are clearly stating that the Tejas Mk1A does so, the only hiccup being the British components.

Just FYI, this is what is on offer for the FAA with the Tejas Mk1A

Every one of the weapons listed in there is either undergoing integration (JDAM-ER, ASRAAM, SAAW and AASM Hammer for instance) or has already been tested and is available (R-73E, Python V, iDerby-ER, HSLD, Griffin LGB).

The future weapons list, all of which are indigenous and under development, caters to the ARM, AShM and ALCM requirements as well.

See, this is the thing with you guys. Khayali Palao as we say it. Tejas Mk1A is yet to enter production (it's supposed to enter production in 2024). Yet you guys create these self fellatio images. There exists not a single image to verify that even half of these weapons have been integrated with Mk1 let alone Mk1A (Which is yet to enter production!). And I am talking about the 'Weapons' category not the 'Future Weapons' Category.

FAA can only expect Tejas Mk1A will all these weapons integrated by 2025 at the very least (and this me being extremely generous and you know it). Why not wait for Tejas Mk2 at that point?

 

[Beast]

Argentina should care about their inglorious inflation and economy before thinking of buying even a bullet.

Why 70% Inflation Is Just One of Argentina’s Problems: QuickTake - Bloomberg
Argentina's inflation rate expected to hit 95% this year | Reuters

India need to take a mirror and look at themselves first.

 

[Ajamal]

Argentina need a supersonic fighter jet urgently.. They know that. Especially when they have a tight budget. They cannot get a fighter jet that can't do anything to UK. They need an all rounder combat jet that can fulfill all it's basic need.

Tejas qualifies for that role. There are only 2 modern aircrafts in this category. Gripen C which defeated J11 in all 34 BVR fights and Tejas MK1A. Rest are west of money including FA50.

 

[serenity]

Tejas qualifies for that role. There are only 2 modern aircrafts in this category. Gripen C which defeated J11 in all 34 BVR fights and Tejas MK1A. Rest are west of money including FA50.

J-11A was used in that exercise. J-11A is basically a Su-27SK. It defeated the Gripen C in WVR.

It lost to Gripen C in BVR because J-11A, Su-27SK has such limited BVR it does not really qualify as modern BVR at all. It is 1980s 1990s "BVR" with original R-27 missiles.

J-11B and J-10A both defeated Gripen C in BVR and WVR in other exercises with Thailand. The only worthwhile measure of J-11A vs Gripen C is WVR since J-11A does not really do BVR. In any case, if one wishes to measure J-11A and Gripen C in BVR then one should understand that J-11A is essentially a 1990s electronics and avionics fighter using 1980s missile vs Gripen C a 2000s era electronics and 1990s to 2000s era BVR missiles. This would be like comparing F-16A (1970s to 1980s missiles and electronics) to J-11B 2000s era in BVR. The F-16A is also not really capable of BVR at all just like the J-11A.

In terms of Argentina's choices, FA-50 is a good choice. Tejas MK1A is not available at all. Not a single unit of Tejas MK1A has been made yet. It is considered for 2023 2024 (according to India) to be ready for production. The rest is up to the Argentinians. Whether JF-17 block 2, used F-16 mid block models, or FA-50 trainer/ light fighter. I think offering MK1A makes it comparable to those others but Tejas is very expensive. Surprisingly expensive. However it is also offering a lot of various western weapons types that can be used and integrated which JF-17 does not allow. FA-50 is overall the best choice that grants Argentina western weapons (but obviously many drawbacks with this also since it is ONLY western weapons) use while JF-17 means it cannot be integrated with western weapons at all because that requires missile and weapon source codes for proper integration.

 

[diligence]

Tejas qualifies for that role. There are only 2 modern aircrafts in this category. Gripen C which defeated J11 in all 34 BVR fights and Tejas MK1A. Rest are west of money including FA50.

Tejas qualify for every imaginable role in fool's paradise. If Indians shamelessly try to sell an unfinished, untested, and undeployed even in India plane in compitition with mature planes such as F16 and JF-17, other countries must be laughing on Indian stupidity if not out-rightly snubbing them.

 

[Ajamal]

Indeed , Tejas also defeat F-22 raptor and martian super fighter aircraft. Hail to mighty suparpowa IAF.

In your dream


They are bloody thick skinned. And the country is ridden with full of lies and delusion. Smoking weeds to delude of themselves of reality of poor state of India in working ranking of science, technology and living standard....

This cheap comments have eroded after use on pdf for many years. You are poor in innovation.

 

[iLION12345_1]

J-11A was used in that exercise. J-11A is basically a Su-27SK. It defeated the Gripen C in WVR.

It lost to Gripen C in BVR because J-11A, Su-27SK has such limited BVR it does not really qualify as modern BVR at all. It is 1980s 1990s "BVR" with original R-27 missiles.

J-11B and J-10A both defeated Gripen C in BVR and WVR in other exercises with Thailand. The only worthwhile measure of J-11A vs Gripen C is WVR since J-11A does not really do BVR. In any case, if one wishes to measure J-11A and Gripen C in BVR then one should understand that J-11A is essentially a 1990s electronics and avionics fighter using 1980s missile vs Gripen C a 2000s era electronics and 1990s to 2000s era BVR missiles. This would be like comparing F-16A (1970s to 1980s missiles and electronics) to J-11B 2000s era in BVR. The F-16A is also not really capable of BVR at all just like the J-11A.

In terms of Argentina's choices, FA-50 is a good choice. Tejas MK1A is not available at all. Not a single unit of Tejas MK1A has been made yet. It is considered for 2023 2024 (according to India) to be ready for production. The rest is up to the Argentinians. Whether JF-17 block 2, used F-16 mid block models, or FA-50 trainer/ light fighter. I think offering MK1A makes it comparable to those others but Tejas is very expensive. Surprisingly expensive. However it is also offering a lot of various western weapons types that can be used and integrated which JF-17 does not allow. FA-50 is overall the best choice that grants Argentina western weapons (but obviously many drawbacks with this also since it is ONLY western weapons) use while JF-17 means it cannot be integrated with western weapons at all because that requires missile and weapon source codes for proper integration.

JF-17 Block 2 is not being considered. Only block 3. FA-50 has too many British parts for it to even begin to be considered. F-16 Block 40 and JF-17 Block 3 are the only realistic options for the FAA, with the former being the slightly more likely candidate due to US’ influence. However, it’s stil literally anybody’s game. People have been speculating on this forum for nearly a year however the Argentinians put it quite simply. It’s a political decision.

So really it's between Kfir or JF-17.

Kfir is not being considered. It’s between F-16, MiG-35, Tejas MK-1A and JF-17 block 3, with the F-16 and JF-17 block 3 being the two likely candidates. Tejas has some chance, MiG35 next to none. FA-50 and Gripen both use too many British parts. Political decision at the end of the day that could go in quite literally anyones favor, and we have no idea when and even if it will take place given how many political and economical factors are involved.


Unfortunately this thread is just going in a convoluted circle at the moment with very few really having a decent understanding of what the Argentine situation is. It matters like 10% what the jet can accomplish because all of these options do 90% of the same thing, just at different costs, and even then, it’s a political decision.

 

[StraightEdge]

Tejas qualifies for that role. There are only 2 modern aircrafts in this category. Gripen C which defeated J11 in all 34 BVR fights and Tejas MK1A. Rest are west of money including FA50.

WASTE | meaning, definition in Cambridge English Dictionary

 

[Beast]

This cheap comments have eroded after use on pdf for many years. You are poor in innovation.

Lol... The cheap belongs to you. A country full of lies and delusion. India is good for nothing.

 

[serenity]

JF-17 Block 2 is not being considered. Only block 3. FA-50 has too many British parts for it to even begin to be considered. F-16 Block 40 and JF-17 Block 3 are the only realistic options for the FAA, with the former being the slightly more likely candidate due to US’ influence. However, it’s stil literally anybody’s game. People have been speculating on this forum for nearly a year however the Argentinians put it quite simply. It’s a political decision.


Kfir is not being considered. It’s between F-16, MiG-35, Tejas MK-1A and JF-17 block 3, with the F-16 and JF-17 block 3 being the two likely candidates. Tejas has some chance, MiG35 next to none. FA-50 and Gripen both use too many British parts. Political decision at the end of the day that could go in quite literally anyones favor, and we have no idea when and even if it will take place given how many political and economical factors are involved.


Unfortunately this thread is just going in a convoluted circle at the moment with very few really having a decent understanding of what the Argentine situation is. It matters like 10% what the jet can accomplish because all of these options do 90% of the same thing, just at different costs, and even then, it’s a political decision.

If JF-17 block 3 is offered, then it is easily the most modern fighter in this group. Mig-35 is very dated now and hints were the radar actually isn't that good and isn't properly integrated well apparently. Mig-35 is also going to cost much more for maintenance and twin engine fighter has lower operational readiness compared to single engine because if P(engine related issue) = 0.01 for some arbitrary operational readiness status, then twin engine of same engine will be 0.02 and so it's always more expensive, less ready, more time in the shop for maintenance and so on.

Mig-35 is out for obvious reasons, simply not that ready apparently and way too expensive to run. Buying is cheap but running is where the seller will really pull your pants down.

Pakistan has been running over 100 JF-17 for about a decade now. Argentina knows Pakistan is on a budget for PAF and it has a much, much more capable and high tech airforce to maintain and yet does well enough with JF-17. This would show them it is not going to be that costly to maintain and keep operational if PAF with many F-16s can manage on a pretty tight budget.

Tejas there is zero information on. Not a single export order and no reviews basically. No idea how it will be to maintain and run even if it flies well which is not proven. Never used in combat with IAF whereas PAF has been using JF-17 a lot in service and combat. Only a few token units are in IAF service and production rate is abysmal even compared to JF-17 production rate in Pakistan.

FA-50 is a capable trainer light fighter with modern technologies but not more modern than block 3 or MK1A Tejas or really even Mig-35. But since Tejas has no idea on how it would be like to own and Mig-35 is too expensive to own, I would say FA-50 is overall similar in capability as JF-17 block 3 because block 3 will also have AESA where both these will be lighter, smaller, lower power AESA types but block 3 may be able to use PL-15 export version and PL-10 export version which are both a generation above AIM-120C and older AIM-9 (not x). The consideration is the politics alignment, the stability of parts access and prices and so on.

 

[arslank03]

Tejas qualifies for that role. There are only 2 modern aircrafts in this category. Gripen C which defeated J11 in all 34 BVR fights and Tejas MK1A. Rest are west of money including FA50.

yeah, well, the FAA doesnt think very highly of the Tejas, it is not even an option, it is a govt 2 gov push, the jf-17 and f-16 are the only contenders. you can read more about it here https://quwa.org/2022/09/11/analysis-why-the-jf-17-is-the-right-choice-for-argentina-2/

 

[Beast]

So really it's between Kfir or JF-17.

Unlikely kfir will succeed since UK will pressure Israel to drop the sales. China has no pressure and infact in bear a grudge against UK for false accusation of uyghur treatment and interference in HK issue. China also fully support Argentina claim of Falkland which Israel do not.

Argentina should care about their inglorious inflation and economy before thinking of buying even a bullet.

Why 70% Inflation Is Just One of Argentina’s Problems: QuickTake - Bloomberg
Argentina's inflation rate expected to hit 95% this year | Reuters

Can't eat the pie and feeling salty and now want FAA to drop any military procurement becos JF-17 winning this tender is 99.9% confirmed.

 

[emotionless_teenage]

In fact, Argentina should not lend money to buy fighter planes now, but should lend money to save their economy.

Exactly.

Borrowing money (either externally through debt or internally through bond) to fund something that has no tangible economic value is stupid. That's what taxpayers' money are for

 

[Beast]

Exactly.

Borrowing money (either externally through debt or internally through bond) to fund something that has no tangible economic value is stupid. That's what taxpayers' money are for

Are u talking about India?