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Are you Hindu first or Indian first?

Are you loyal to UK?
I will when i will get citizenship because you take that oath and by the way concept of loyalty is different in India and UK . For Indian Hindu you are loyal Indian Muslim if you hate Pakistan but you dont have to hate whole country to be loyal to britain and you can also insult criticise Uk or its polices and no one will call you a traitor who need to be deported in Pakistan:)
 
I think you have some confusion about the definition of secularism. Plus you yourself didn't saw campaign of Modi before elections but yet you are here making assumptions about India.
I am not confuse. I know very well what is secularism. Hinduism is deep rooted in Indian society and in daily lives of Hindus so it will be insane to say that it has no significance for Indian Hindus and this sense of being Hindu is any less stronger than this sense of Indianness where you treat Hindu or non Hindu equally leaving all biasness and emotional attachment with fellow Hindus or Hinduism aside

bhai, aapne post kia hai aur maine quote kia..
kidar post kia ha? I think you quoted me in someone else post..check properly
 
They have their own version of secularism where cow slaughter is forbidden and different laws of marriage/inheritance/adoption/quota system etc unlike secularism in west

Are you really aware of the "different laws of marriage/inheritance/adoption" etc? Those are actually a way of pandering to religious groups - they are the ones who have a different set of civil laws. Muslims can choose whether to be governed by the muslim personnel laws or the common laws of the nation. Tiny Goa is the only state which has a uniform civil code for all, irrespective of religion. This is against the principles of secularism, but you have to understand that the biggest opponents of removing this discriminatory practice, are politically powerful Islamic groups.

And yes, secularism as followed in India is different from how the term is used in the west. Personally I wish India followed the western model of secularism - but I'm glad that India is at least committed to the Indian model.
 
“Are you Hindu first or Indian first?”

By Dr Javed Jamil

Indian Hindus, more specifically Hindutvavadis are fond of asking Muslims: Are you a Muslim first or Indian first. This question is obviously asked as a test of their loyalty to the nation. To them, if they think they are Muslims first, they are not patriotic. I now ask Hindus, again particularly the Hindutvavadis: Are you Indian first or Hindu first? And then I ask them:

  • When Godse killed Gandhi, was he a Hindu first or Indian first? When you declare him a “brave” man and want to build his temple, are you proving to be Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When you destroyed Babri Masjid leading the country to worst ever social and emotional division since Partition, were you being Hindu first or Indian first? When you still hope to build Ram Mandir on the ruins of Babri Masjid, are you Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When you reserve Hindu Dalits, Hindu OBCs in the name of backwardness (about half of your population), and call any attempt for giving reservation to Muslims “appeasement”, are you Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When you call for making Gita and other Hindu scriptures part of educational syllabi, are you Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When Prime Minister Modi gifts Gita instead of a book on Gandhi or Indian History to foreign heads of state on his official visits, does he prove himself to be Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When Hindutva organisations try to equate “Hindu” with “Indian” giving fallacious grounds causing severe anguish to majority of Indians, are they trying to be Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When they raise voice only against terrorist attacks committed by Muslims and not against much greater number of Hindu terrorist attacks and much greater violence in riots, are they Hindus first or Indians first?
  • When instead of demanding severest punishment to Hindu leaders involved in communal riots, you honour them, are you being Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When they campaign for Hindus producing more and more children (so that they retain their demographic domination) are they trying to be Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When the Government declared Yoga Day and tried to present it as a national practice, was it Hindu first or Indian first?
  • When political parties like BJP and Shiv Sena endeavour to consolidate Hindu votes by promoting communal polarisation, do they behave as Hindu firstr or Indians first?
  • When you oppose Urdu, which is an Indian language, just because lately it has become more popular with Muslims, do you prove yourselves to be Hindus first or Indians first?
  • If tens of thousands of Hindus left India and became American, Australian or British citizens, while still retaining their religious identity, were they Hindu first or Indian first before their migration?
It does not mean that Hindus should not feel proud of their religion. They must. The follower of every religion must be proud of his religion if he has faith in it. Till a person or a community is fighting for its own principles or right, there is nothing wrong about it. The problem starts when instead of being concerned about itself, it starts targeting others.

I find the very question of “what you are first/” absurd. Can you ask anybody: Are you a human first or Indian first? Are you honest first or Indian first? Or a doctor first or Indian first? Are you Delhite first or Indian first?

To be Indian or not relates to one’s nationality. One can be an Indian, Chinese, American or Russian? To be a Muslim or Hindu or Christian or a Communist, Atheist etc relates to one’s ideology. One has several identities at the same time. I am an Indian by nationality, Muslim by Faith, Doctor by Profession, man by sex, and a Delhite by location. One can at the same time also belong to a political party. All these identities become important at different times. If as a doctor, I have to treat 10 patients having different nationalities, I will not treat Indian first but I will treat a patient, Indian or otherwise, who needs more urgent attention or who reported first. When you go to a temple and several people of different nations are there, you will not again identify them by nationality.

Nationality of a person in most cases is by chance, not by choice. When a person is born, he is just a human being. When he grows, he comes to know that he is an Indian and a Hindu/Muslim. He can then change or continue with the same identities.

I am a Muslim first when the question relates to Faith, I am an Indian first when it relates to nationality. If an Indian government in future becomes atheistic or Muslim or Christian, and that government asks a Hindu to do something which is against his faith, he will not necessarily accept it. Hindus may unite and campaign against the government even if they happen to be in minority.

Indian Muslims are mostly of Indian origin. Even those who are from foreign origin have accepted India as their nation. But Indianans does not mean that they can be persuaded by the majority to follow a wrong course in the name of nationality. Justice and honesty are above everything including nationality. If many American protested against American attack on Iraq, they proved that they were lovers of justice more than that of America.

It is just a ploy of the forces of Hindutva to keep raising issues that clouds the patriotism of Indian Muslims. I have seen British and Australian Hindus of Indian origin openly supporting Indian Cricket teams against their countries. Are they traitors? Indian Hindus feel the pain when a Hindu Australian or American is killed there. This is natural because they have common religion. On any ground of identity, one can feel closeness to anyone. When I was in Australia, I loved meeting Indian Hindus more than Saudi Muslims because of our common language and culture. When I went to Iran to attend a conference, my eyes were looking for any Indians, not for Iranian Muslims.

Religion tells you about your morality, about your preferences for good and bad. Nationality is about an administrative cohesion, which helps you achieve your aims in professional and other fields.

By putting such absurd questions, Muslims cannot be bullied anymore. They belong to this nation and the nation belongs to them. They have every right to influence the direction of Indian policies in every single field, and to get benefits from its achievements because they are partners in its work as well as result.

I am a great proponent of coming together of all religions, and I have recurrently argued that Indian Muslims and Hindus must come together against the immorality propagated by the current world for commercial aims. Westernism or New World Order, based on negation of religious morality and propagation of commercial morality, is a threat to every religion and the whole mankind. The fight today is not between religions but between religion and irreligion. Hindus and Muslims think alike in most matters be it family values, moral values or social values. We all hate alcohol, gambling, sex outside marriage and homosexuality and nakedness. We all are believers in God though our methods can be different. I will repeat here that Islam is not a religion started by Prophet Muhammad. Islam means submission to God, called Allah in Arabic and Parmeshwar in Hindi/Sanskrit and Jehovah in Hebrew. Hinduism in its original form may have been the old version of Islam, and Islam is the latest version of God’s religion, which includes Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism as well as Buddhism. Quran asks us to believe in the truthfulness of all the previous scriptures and messengers.

I believe one should be human first and any other identity should be secondary. The lessons of humanity are taught not by nationalism but by ideologies, religious or atheistic. So any person should be a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or Communist first than an Indian, Russian, Chinese, American or Saudi. But this identity must be based on ideology and not community. If it is based on communal or ethnic considerations, it tends to be dangerous, especially when it is directed against others. Moreover, national identity should not necessarily mean support to the State in every matter, even if it goes against the principles of justice and humanity. Citizens must try to stop their governments from indulging in violent struggles against other countries.

Instead of indulging in a campaign of hatred, let us campaign for the commonness of morality in religion, and let us unite against the vices perpetrated by Westernism dominated by supremacy of Economics. Let those Hindus and Muslims who believe in this approach unite first. Others will follow.

——

  • Dr Javed Jamil is India based thinker and writer with over a dozen books including his latest, “Quranic Paradigms of Sciences & Society” (First Vol: Health), “Muslims Most Civilised, Yet Not Enough” and “Muslim Vision of Secular India: Destination & Road-map”. Other works include “The Devil of Economic Fundamentalism”, “The Essence of the Divine Verses”, “The Killer Sex”, “Islam means Peace” and “Rediscovering the Universe”. Read more about him at Dr. Javed Jamil. Facebook page:Dr. Javed Jamil | Facebook. He can be contacted at doctorforu123@yahoo.comor 91-8130340339.


Courtesy “Muslim Mirror”
 
Did you watched the campaign of Modi closely before election i.e his rhetoric /slogans?Was it all about development with no element of Hindu nationalism? He was even gifting geeta to representatives of other countries. he is chalti phrti example of Hinduism instead of secularism i
I actually followed the elections quite closely, and you can find about 100 more instances of hindu heritage, which comes naturally to him... It's geeta not main kaempf that's given out. But look at the rest of 5000 instances of purely developmental issues focused on throughout the campaign.

Modi is P.M of India, which is perceived as an adversarial nation, oversimplification of Bjp/Modi as just a hindu nationalist, would be counterproductive...But if you have already made up your mind, then I won't be able to contribute further to the topic.
 
I think Hindu is not religion , Hindu can be Muslim or Christian, who ever lives in that region.
 
This is wrong people are human first. And they are earth people first. Indian or whatever is a short term identity.

Correct, but I think the point of the question is only between religious and nationalistic identity.
 
I understand but when you or your parent took Canadian citizenship..did not you promised to show loyalty towards this country Canada? Why your parent left India in the first place if you were such loyal to India?

That's an inconvenient question. Yes, it is true that to become a naturalized citizen of another country, they have to take an oath of allegiance to that country, and that country alone. But most people who obtain ciizenships in the west do so not due to any cultural affinity, but for economic reasons. Job prospect, salary etc. There is a saying that you can take an Indian out of India, but you cannot take India out of an Indian.

BTW you are sporting two different flags, so shouldn't you have an answer to that question yourself? What's your take?

na tu hindu bany ga na musilman bany ga
insaan ki aulaad hai insaan bany ga

I love that song!!!!!!!
 
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