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Are we able to make an aircraft like F-16?

Tell me, how many combats have your Chinese fighters seen? What was the kill record?

BTW, you have yet not substantiated your claim that only US and China are 'heavy player' -- or told us what does that term mean.

As far as papers in Chinese go, well, if you only get your research reviewed by Chinese, it defeats the purpose of peer-review. Why do you think all the other researchers and analysts publish their work in English? For peer-review! you moron! See, this is why no one trusts Chinese technology. You simply refuse to get it peer reviewed. It is not world responsibility to verify your claim but your responsibility to convince the world about your fantastic claims. And sorry to say Chinese is a pathetic language choice for global community. It is spoken only in China.

In the end you are a blow-hard Chinese moron drunk on the usual Chinese kool-aid. Dare to provide some substantial evidence on your claim about China and US being only 'heavy weight' player in avionics and radar technology?
Yes yes,same as those who claimed Chinese UCAV are no good and unproven and guess what? It's scores bull eye for Iraq army in battle against ISIS. Checkout YouTube and see for yourself. Saudi and Iraq are very impress and one ask for joint venture and another asking for more batch.

The reason for asking combat record is irrelevant. Extensive testing and trial has convince buyer of its capabilities. Buyer are also not stupid not to test extensively before making a decision. We are no more in WWII where urgent need to put those prototypes quickly into service into battle.

There are ample time and trial to prove something. Calling for combat proven is just an excuse for China haters.
 
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F-16V is miles ahead of anything in Asia (at large) in similar class.

One thing I would like to add - even China is not willing to [export] its 'most state-of-the-art' products/components to any customer [understandably]. This forced Pakistan to source a few parts from other states for JF-17 Thunder.


That is also a good way to look at things. :tup:
Hi @LeGenD
I agree with you completely. There are certain areas where F-16(nearly all variants) are ahead of even flankers and that is STR. Everything in F-16 has a typical aura that it was optimized for serious STRs. Blended fuselage, lerx, nimble etc etc. However in longitudinal plane flankers dominate hands down.
In dog fights what matters even more these days is the kind of armament these planes carry and AMRAAMs that comes with F-16 makes it very very deadly--it is something that shouldnt be looked down upon--in fact to be really honest, AMRAAM+F-16 combo is the only thing PAF has that can give some serious fight to our flankers. It is not the STR that I fear most in F-16, it is the AMRAAM with decent A-pole that is what I consider most threatening.The terminal kinetics of AMRAAM is perhaps one of the best after Ducted ramjet based BVRs.
My comments are based on my own research,my interaction with our pilots and my friends involved in some of these.
 
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There is no significent generational gap between F-16 and F-17, so you cant just simply to say one is better than the other```if you want to break them down into individual parts or sub-systems then you can judge like that.

But remember this, a fighter jet is a complex system, a collective body, an aggregation of high tech parts..... and there is an art of choosing parts and sub-systems, there is alway compromise involved during the process. So in our circle, a good platform is defined by how well it meets the needs, not how many fancy things you can squeeze in a confined space``
And, also depends on who's piloting!!!!!!!! "Cows in the cockpit" - Russian folks sometimes can be dead blunt!!!!! Is it due to Votka??????
 
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Let me rephrase the question, and ask for which Radars are GaN AESA.
Then publish Your Chinese documentation, preferably brief marketing material.

On the Sino defense Forum they say J-20 may have GaN Radar in 2020-2025.
Unlike SAAB, which has GaN Radars in production since a few years and are accepting orders.
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-radar-developments-klj-series-and-others.t6755/page-13

When You google for "China AESA GaN" You get no hits, and suggestion to look (picture)
I do not think that proves that Chinese is pretty advanced in Radar.

IMG_1631.jpg
 
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It depends upon why you think that we need to manufacture 'an aircraft like F-16' and depends upon why in your comparison JF-17 do not fulfil this and in what departments it does not fulfil this?

What are you trying to compare, flying qualities, avionics or specific operational capabilities.

In turn rates it is at par with A/Bs which are better than C/Ds. In sustained turn rates it is almost right along with C/Ds(which by the way are still better than whatever is on offer under the sun) lacking somewhat in thrust which will be corrected in next block..

In range it is a bit less than A/Bs and more less from C/Ds because of CFTs. Russians/Chinese had different operational/tactical concepts and doctrines from west. But this is getting corrected and in newer blocks will be fully taken care of.

In avionics, in terms of man to machine interface it is where we wanted it to be.. based on our experience with F-16s as well as ROSE mirages. Now in terms of sensors, radar wise it is near to APG-68 in AA modes if not fully equal, SAR is where C/Ds are better. Important thing is that it can handle all threats which our enemy can throw at us. With AESA in next block it will be superior. In terms of targeting pod, we have integrated a very good pod. It may not be equal in some modes with Sniper but does it job well.

It is fully networked and is geared to provide a good operational picture from different sensors.

It stands fine in short as well as medium range AA combat against what our enemy can throw at us. SD-10s are finely tuned to our experience with AMRAAMs and are geared to handle the threats we can face.
In different AG modes, it is not equivalent but getting there.. In Anti-shipping, it is actually better with better ranged weapons at hands. In SEAD, it has a very good RWR and integrated with MARs. Now with a better pod, and better PGBs it is also becoming comparable in CAS and interdiction.

Important thing is that we have to get out of this habit of salivating for each new and shinny toy. F-16 when it started was just a day fighter and a light weight fighter with about same weight, payload, and thrust as JF-17. The earlier prototypes and A/Bs were actually better in VWR combat than latter heavier C/Ds. It took that a lot of time and effort to be where they are as excellent multi-role fighters but resulted in becoming heavier. JF-17 is a good platform to build upon both for AA and AG operations, it has shown all the promise to be an excellent work horse for us.
Pak has produced "man" like Gazi M M Alam, the "machine" will inshaAllah follow the suit!!!!!
 
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No wonder they are so backward and can only be a follower :enjoy:
some europeans are doing just fine, they have advantages in specific areas like optical, CNC, precision engineering and etc respectively, but none of them have a wide or even complete industrial spectrum or technological know-how like China and U.S has, which enables us to make comlicated holistic systematic projects.

another problem facing them is the U.S, that for decades its policy is to make all the European countries into U.S industrial and financial eco-system, so even some individual countries like Sweden can be able to develop advanced 4th gen fighter, but it wont be possible if Sweden left the eco-system. their technologcial sharing are quite deep and profound. so it is 1+1>2 thing for them....but at our end, we actually "reinvent" lots of things, takes much longer time, compromise in realiablity in the begining, however the long term positive effect is grandiose as we can see now!
 
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are we talking about avionics and radar technologies or not? dont drag the topic to other areas, which by the way I dont think you have the knowledge or basic common sense of it.

you know it very well what 'heavy player' analogy means, you are just too wuzzy fuzzy to accept the reality.````just in case you really dont have the wits, I will use another analogy for that``there are only two "heavy players" in turbofan sector, that is U.S and the U.K````hope you will get this one

This is exactly the reason I am asking you to define 'Heavy Players'. What I do not understand by your turbofan analogy here is :-

1. Do you mean the largest number of jet engines presently deployed?
2. Do you mean the most powerful engine manufactured?
3. Do you mean the number of firms producing the engines?
4. Is this some kind of 'gut feeling' based metric?
5. How many countries have imported these engines or A/C around these engines?

For me the important players -- as in countries -- in Turbofan will be (in no particular order) :-

- US (P & W, GE, Honeywell, etc etc etc )
- Russia (UEC Family -- NPO Saturn, Klimov; Aviadvigatel)
- UK (Rolls Royces)
- France (Safran)
- Germany (MTU)

Now US is the clear leader in every sense of the word. Okay understood!
Russia vs UK; now what? Rolls Royce is second biggest manufacturer of Turbofan in terms of assets and revenue but Russia has a number of developers covering the entire gamut of turbofan engines. How do you want to classify here?

what makes you think that research or high tech project papers have to be in English for peer review, is that a law in English speaking India or what? there are loads of top papers were done with local language, and that doesnt undermine their credibility of the project or paper itself at all. You know we are not English speaking country, and your stupidity suggests that to master English first before doing any serious science and high tech R&D in countries like China and Japan?`:lol:``well it might the case in India, and other European countries, but not for us``especially to the strictly embargoed area like defense techs. we dig our own ground and build our own house```you have zero clue of what we have been through kid``

No, it is a convention to publish research in a language which is understood by most of the scientific community. Currently only English is such language and hence if you are not publishing your work in English, your peer review will be weak. Specially for China where their academia follows a highly beaurocratic structure around Army or Chinese government/Party. Hence, papers in Chinese only --without an english counterpart -- are not well peer reviewed and as such their veracity is doubtful. In simple terms, if you have a real result why are you hiding it behind Chinese Wall? Show it to the world and they will either critique it or they will accept it and trust it. Most of the researchers will never waste their time on a researcher who is sloppy enough not to even able to write his or her work in a language understood by majority of scientific community. I will certainly not!

When You google for "Chinese AESA GaN" You get the following...
I do not think that proves that Chinese is pretty advanced in Radar.

Let me rephrase the question, and ask for which Radars are GaN AESA.
Then publish Your Chinese documentation.

View attachment 406377
Honestly speaking Chinese nationalists are the worst morons on the planet. After drinking Made-in-China kool-aid they cannot see simple sense.

Yes yes,same as those who claimed Chinese UCAV are no good and unproven and guess what? It's scores bull eye for Iraq army in battle against ISIS. Checkout YouTube and see for yourself. Saudi and Iraq are very impress and one ask for joint venture and another asking for more batch.

The reason for asking combat record is irrelevant. Extensive testing and trial has convince buyer of its capabilities. Buyer are also not stupid not to test extensively before making a decision. We are no more in WWII where urgent need to put those prototypes quickly into service into battle.

There are ample time and trial to prove something. Calling for combat proven is just an excuse for China haters.
Your own example proves my point. Once your systems are proven in battle -- like UCAV -- you will be trusted for that item. Till then entire 'China is a Heavy Player' is a stupid hot-air.
 
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When You google for "Chinese AESA GaN" You get the following...
I do not think that proves that Chinese is pretty advanced in Radar.

Let me rephrase the question, and ask for which Radars are GaN AESA.
Then publish Your Chinese documentation.

View attachment 406377
its not up to you to believe, it is the reality````there are loads of Chinese articles about Chinese radar or GaN AESA, it is just you cant read Chinese and have no knowledge base of China's radar evolution and its landscape
http://www.hbmmc.com/PDF/2014PDF/06-GaN.pdf
https://www.zhihu.com/question/22817590/answer/86270097
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1590338
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1658540
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1666052&extra=&page=1
even though this is not how I normally do to dig these reports```

and I will return the favor of answering your question again```the radars used on 055, J-20 and few other platforms are using GaN`````````
 
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I believed this "Chinese is behind XX" will continue for at least a decade even though AESA based equipment is daily necessity in China right now. "Battle proven"? Sorry, we are peace loving bunch, continue the trolling as we move on.:cheers:
 
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T

For me the important players -- as in countries -- in Turbofan will be (in no particular order) :-

- US (P & W, GE, Honeywell, etc etc etc )
- Russia (UEC Family -- NPO Saturn, Klimov; Aviadvigatel)
- UK (Rolls Royces)
- France (Safran)
- Germany (MTU)
Turbofan engine, and you listed MTU? lol, kid kid kid````the current most powerful, reliable, "smart" and economical turbofan jet engines are from either U.S or U.K```leave the second tier player like Russia and France, they are good but not at the top```and MTU, seriosuly? this shows your true level of understanding of turbofan engine sector``kid, we are not talking about diesel engine or turbo engine used for ships`````omg

and again lol at your funny theory of why most Chinese project papers and research papers are in Chinese. What`` now you've become a Chinese expert on our social and science system? ridiculous at most I have to say :D````kid, Chinese and Japanese are the two most used language on PCT application paper and published nature science research papers after English ok? do more research before lashing out funny comments``

and the worst morons on planet arent nationalist, but ludicrous and ignorant people pretends to be sane and talking about common sense``:P

now lets get back to the very question, where is the Russian crafts were dealt by a GaN AESA,?
 
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its not up to you to believe, it is the reality````there are loads of Chinese articles about Chinese radar or GaN AESA, it is just you cant read Chinese and have no knowledge base of China's radar evolution and its landscape
http://www.hbmmc.com/PDF/2014PDF/06-GaN.pdf
https://www.zhihu.com/question/22817590/answer/86270097
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1590338
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1658540
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1666052&extra=&page=1
even though this is not how I normally do to dig these reports```

and I will return the favor of answering your question again```the radars used on 055, J-20 and few other platforms are using GaN`````````

Those links show that Chinese are making MODULES with GaN,
Not that there are complete AESA Radars - IN PRODUCTION.
Your claim that J-20 is using GaN is countered by the claim that it will not be available for 3-8 years.
Your claim has no credibility until You show material on GaN AESA radars.

You are on the ignore list as of now.
 
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its not up to you to believe, it is the reality````there are loads of Chinese articles about Chinese radar or GaN AESA, it is just you cant read Chinese and have no knowledge base of China's radar evolution and its landscape
http://www.hbmmc.com/PDF/2014PDF/06-GaN.pdf
https://www.zhihu.com/question/22817590/answer/86270097
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1590338
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1658540
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1666052&extra=&page=1
even though this is not how I normally do to dig these reports```

and I will return the favor of answering your question again```the radars used on 055, J-20 and few other platforms are using GaN`````````
Oh Dear!
So these are your papers and articles?

First is a product data sheet of a Microwave Power Module based on GaN. It is not even a TRM of a AESA. FYI Here is a basic block diagram of a T/R M.

TR_Receive_State.jpg


What you have here is only the power amp portion of this device. It is not even a complete T/R Module.

Second is a news article about how US is getting worried about China getting GaN technology. Sure!

Rest are all research papers in various subjects from Electronic system design, DBDP, etc etc. You didn't even care to point out how they are related to GaN T/R Modules! Just pure spam.

Those links show that Chinese are making MODULES with GaN,
Not that there are complete AESA Radars - IN PRODUCTION.
Your claim that J-20 is using GaN is countered by the claim that it will not be available for 3-8 years.
Your claim has no credibility until You show material on GaN AESA radars.
Oh its not even the modules. First is just the Microwave power module based on GaN fabrication. That is perhaps only product in his vast spam of links. Rest are just random EE papers mostly on RF engineering.
 
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