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Are the Sinhalese people descendants of Bengali and Odiya sea merchants?

Not with Sinhalese but certainly with the Moorish.. They have origins from Northern Africa, Middle East, Persia and Afghanistan.. You'd be surprised the how common Arabic and Turkic features among Lankan Moors are especially in the Kandyan and South Western Coastal regions (Beruwela, Galle) in the island

Taprobana/Serendib/Zeylan was a trading hub smack bang in the middle of the East West maritime trade routes for over millennia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taprobana

Yes ,I have heard about it .Including that Burgher and Arab traders .In ours case including in my own state ,it was extensive from 3000BC then our trade hub was Musiris .
First it was Sumerians ,then Arabs ,then Syrians,Jews ,from 10AD ,it was the people outside of the subcontinent that travelled through our western seaboard .Some stayed in Tulunadu areas.Rest of them ended up in Kerala .
 
Sinhalese are not decedents of Odiya or Bengali but they are decedents of Telugu people.

Look at the all the languages that evolved from Brahmi and you would notice that Sinhalese is very close to Kannada and Telugu Alphabets rather than Bengali or Odiya.

upload_2017-6-14_12-42-21.png


The reference to Sea people points to Telugu people who lived on the coast as part of the the Great Gajapati kingdom.

upload_2017-6-14_12-54-43.png


Also, people mistake that Sinhalese and Bengali are related as both have high content of Sanskrit but they do not realize the fact that Telugu has more than 80% Sanskrit content too.
 
Sinhalese are not decedents of Odiya or Bengali but they are decedents of Telugu people.

You cant base your assumptions just on scripts, Genetics of Sinhala people are of a admixture of Bengali, Tamil and Gujarati, There are no anthropological proof of significant Telingu connections to Sinhala people

The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman

Including that Burgher and Arab traders

Burghers are of European descent mainly Dutch, They have no historical connection to Moors but are distinct Ceylonese ethnicity recognized in it's constitution, Arabs on the other hand were migrants just like the Dutch

.Some stayed in Tulunadu areas.Rest of them ended up in Kerala .

Yes Kerala especially Cochin was a major cosmopolitan port of the ancient times, I guess there are still surviving remnants of Jews, Syrian Christians and Arab communities in Kerala
 
You cant base your assumptions just on scripts, Genetics of Sinhala people are of a admixture of Bengali, Tamil and Gujarati, There are no anthropological proof of significant Telingu connections to Sinhala people

The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman

Why don't you listen to these clips? When I listen Sinhalese seems close to Kannada not Odiya or Bengali or Gujarati






 
You cant base your assumptions just on scripts, Genetics of Sinhala people are of a admixture of Bengali, Tamil and Gujarati, There are no anthropological proof of significant Telingu connections to Sinhala people

The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman



Burghers are of European descent mainly Dutch, They have no historical connection to Moors but are distinct Ceylonese ethnicity recognized in it's constitution, Arabs on the other hand were migrants just like the Dutch



Yes Kerala especially Cochin was a major cosmopolitan port of the ancient times, I guess there are still surviving remnants of Jews, Syrian Christians and Arab communities in Kerala

It was the Kozhikode area that faced more admixture mainly from Arabs and Portugese .You have to visit in some pocket areas in Malabar and Travancore .You will get the difference :D

You cant base your assumptions just on scripts, Genetics of Sinhala people are of a admixture of Bengali, Tamil and Gujarati, There are no anthropological proof of significant Telingu connections to Sinhala people

The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman



Burghers are of European descent mainly Dutch, They have no historical connection to Moors but are distinct Ceylonese ethnicity recognized in it's constitution, Arabs on the other hand were migrants just like the Dutch



Yes Kerala especially Cochin was a major cosmopolitan port of the ancient times, I guess there are still surviving remnants of Jews, Syrian Christians and Arab communities in Kerala

Jews are less than 10 numbers in Kochi now a days .They didnt have much connection with others in our state .
But Syrian Christians and Arabs diluted among state population.
 
You cant base your assumptions just on scripts, Genetics of Sinhala people are of a admixture of Bengali, Tamil and Gujarati, There are no anthropological proof of significant Telingu connections to Sinhala people

The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman

Going by the physical appearance alone, Sinhalese people indeed look like Telugu(Andhra People). Oriya and Bengali people are of slighter build.
 
From the interactions, although the language is claimed as Indo-Aryan, Sinhalaese are generally closer to South India more similar to Andhra/Mysore/Tamil people. Most probably they are of Tamil/Telugu heritage and origin.

A street scene from Galle, a predominantly Sinhalese city may be enough to assume how Sinhalese looks are :


How_can_Sinhalese_not_be_a_Dravidian_language_-.png
 
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Going by the physical appearance alone, Sinhalese people indeed look like Telugu(Andhra People). Oriya and Bengali people are of slighter build.

Lankans are a very heterogeneous population.. Mixed marriages are very common and through 3500 years of migrations and intermarriage there's no uniform feature for a average Sri Lankan, Unlike most of the Sub continent that due to societal and religious compulsions, Where Communities tend to segregate

But if you do take some Sinhala communities that do to date keep somewhat of a segregation when it comes to marriage within the community like Kandyan Radala Sinhalese you may notice the distinct similarities that they might have with non Dravidian Indians, And as i mentioned Moors of South Western Districts and the Highlands also have not lost their Arabic and other Middle Eastern features due to less mixing with rest of the communities

@takeiteasy I'd take a comment made by a person named SIVA in a online forum about Sinhala people with not just a pinch but a bucket load of salt.. Mate

Genetic studies done by anthropologists have found that Sinhala people have a genetic admixture of mainly Bengali or Eastern Indic people and Tamil and Gujarati, Now living is a tropical environment for over three millennia with different food habits,Culture and intermarriages with numerous other races make the ordinary Sinhala person today different to the original people that migrated to the island.. But there are way too many genetic, Anthropological and Archaeological proof that connect the Sinhala to the Eastern sea board of the Sub Continent
 
The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman

Sinhalese language came after Sinhalese people, so yes Language can't be used to find the origin of Sinhalese but there were several waves of South Indian migrations and marriages between Bengali settlers and South Indian migrants.
There are some Tamil words in Sinhala like Amma ,Appachi/Appa (depending on area) ,Akka ,mama etc.
Also comparison of some Tamil letters to Sinhala
අ அ
න ன
ණ ண
ප ப
 
From the interactions, although the language is claimed as Indo-Aryan, Sinhalaese are generally closer to South India more similar to Andhra/Mysore/Tamil people. Most probably they are of Tamil/Telugu heritage and origin.

A street scene from Galle, a predominantly Sinhalese city may be enough to assume how Sinhalese looks are :


How_can_Sinhalese_not_be_a_Dravidian_language_-.png

I think this guy is a Tamil.
Tamils are our brothers and our language Malayalam's mother was Tamil.
Kerala was a part of Tamil Nadu centuries ago. Then they had a Chera Kingdom and another mighty Chola Kingdom.
Then cultural admixtures happened during thousands of years .
Now even outsiders including North Indians can clearly identify who is Keralites and who is Tamil.
 
Sinhalese are not decedents of Odiya or Bengali but they are decedents of Telugu people.

Look at the all the languages that evolved from Brahmi and you would notice that Sinhalese is very close to Kannada and Telugu Alphabets rather than Bengali or Odiya.

View attachment 403612

The reference to Sea people points to Telugu people who lived on the coast as part of the the Great Gajapati kingdom.

View attachment 403614

Also, people mistake that Sinhalese and Bengali are related as both have high content of Sanskrit but they do not realize the fact that Telugu has more than 80% Sanskrit content too.

Where do exactly Telegu people live? Is it close to ancient Amaravati area?

You cant base your assumptions just on scripts, Genetics of Sinhala people are of a admixture of Bengali, Tamil and Gujarati, There are no anthropological proof of significant Telingu connections to Sinhala people

The Sinhala language is languid and evolving, So there can be influences of not just Telingu but also Malayali from South India, Also the script may resemble that of Telingu or Malayali but spoken Sinhalese is nothing close to any of the Dravidian languages.. @Godman

Spoken Sinhalese were not influenced by the South Indian languages until 13-14th centuries. The spoken language then shaped by the timely interventions by Portuguese, Dutch and English languages.

From the interactions, although the language is claimed as Indo-Aryan, Sinhalaese are generally closer to South India more similar to Andhra/Mysore/Tamil people. Most probably they are of Tamil/Telugu heritage and origin.

A street scene from Galle, a predominantly Sinhalese city may be enough to assume how Sinhalese looks are :


How_can_Sinhalese_not_be_a_Dravidian_language_-.png

It is indeed correct to assume that Sinhalese are not from the "Aryan" tribe. Sinhalese are just a mix of many different ethnicities mainly based on South Indian DNA. Though it should noted that there might be larger number of indigenous DNA of the "Balangoda people" as well.

Genetic studies done by anthropologists have found that Sinhala people have a genetic admixture of mainly Bengali or Eastern Indic people and Tamil and Gujarati, Now living is a tropical environment for over three millennia with different food habits,Culture and intermarriages with numerous other races make the ordinary Sinhala person today different to the original people that migrated to the island.. But there are way too many genetic, Anthropological and Archaeological proof that connect the Sinhala to the Eastern sea board of the Sub Continent

That study cannot be trusted as the sole evidence for the roots of the Sinhalese people. That study hadn't been done by an reputed institution nor it had be cross examined. IMHO the said research is a hypothetical one published just to fulfill wet dreams of few individuals.

Could you explain what kind of Anthropological and Archaeological proof are their to prove that Sinhalese are from Eastern India?

I think this guy is a Tamil.
Tamils are our brothers and our language Malayalam's mother was Tamil.
Kerala was a part of Tamil Nadu centuries ago. Then they had a Chera Kingdom and another mighty Chola Kingdom.
Then cultural admixtures happened during thousands of years .
Now even outsiders including North Indians can clearly identify who is Keralites and who is Tamil.

It is time that the South Indian people to acknowledge that Sinhalese are also their brothers and sisters. Not some Aryans who has invaded and Dravidian settlement.
 
very cool thread - getting to learn a lot. thanks a lot for starting this @Gibbs. Does the Sri lankan language/religion mixture have any traditions that are not commonly practiced in those particular languages/religions?? that usually is an indicato of an underlying layer of culture that got carried forward.
 
Where do exactly Telegu people live? Is it close to ancient Amaravati area?



Spoken Sinhalese were not influenced by the South Indian languages until 13-14th centuries. The spoken language then shaped by the timely interventions by Portuguese, Dutch and English languages.



It is indeed correct to assume that Sinhalese are not from the "Aryan" tribe. Sinhalese are just a mix of many different ethnicities mainly based on South Indian DNA. Though it should noted that there might be larger number of indigenous DNA of the "Balangoda people" as well.



That study cannot be trusted as the sole evidence for the roots of the Sinhalese people. That study hadn't been done by an reputed institution nor it had be cross examined. IMHO the said research is a hypothetical one published just to fulfill wet dreams of few individuals.

Could you explain what kind of Anthropological and Archaeological proof are their to prove that Sinhalese are from Eastern India?



It is time that the South Indian people to acknowledge that Sinhalese are also their brothers and sisters. Not some Aryans who has invaded and Dravidian settlement.

Agreed.
But I dont believe in Aryan theory .
Aryan in Sanskrit means noble. It doesnt mean that it depends on colour and race .
Dravidians are not a homogenous group .
Majority of educated Indians can easily identify all 4 states and their unique features.
 
Where do exactly Telegu people live? Is it close to ancient Amaravati area?

Correct. But let me elaborate below.

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Nagarjunakonda – The Island To Plan Your Visit
TRAVEL
28 NOVEMBER 2015
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nagarjunakonda-1.jpg


Summary: Can you imagine visiting an island in South India? Yes, this is possible as the Guntur District has one such island. Let us explore some details about this island called as Nagarjunakonda.

The term Nagarjunakonda is translated as Nagarjuna Hill and it is nothing, but a historical Buddhist town. It is now an island that is located close to the Nagarjuna Sagar in the Guntur District of the state of AP.

Site of historical importance:

The ancient remains of this site, which is located at a distance of about 150 kms southeast of Hyderabad were discovered in the year 1926. Before the year 1953, two major excavations were carried out in this place. The first excavation was done when it was announced that the area would be flooded by the Nagarjuna Sagar Reservoir. It was presumed that the major flood would arise as a result of the massive hydroelectric project that was initiated in the area in the year 1960.

To protect the Buddhist remains in this area, a massive excavation work was carried out, during which the unearthing of many Buddhist stupas, ruins, viharas, chaityas and mandapams happened. During the period, many white marble depictions explaining the life of Gautam Buddha were found. From the remains found during the excavation, some of them were moved to Nagarjunakonda Island that now has a museum for showcasing these remains from Buddhist period to the tourists.

Significance of Nagarjunakonda:

This island was one of the most important and largest Buddhist centers in entire South India right from the second century BC until the third century AD. This place was named after Acharya Nagarjuna, who was a renowned Buddhist philosopher and scholar and who is also considered as the pioneer to spread Buddhism in this region. It is stated that he had migrated to this place from Amaravati for spreading the message of Gautam Buddha of brotherhood and universal peace.

Acharya Nagarjuna as he was popularly called is the founder of Mahayana Buddhism and there is also a university that functions even today in the name of this Acharya. He also established the Madhyamika School for which students from different countries of the world like China and Sri Lanka were attracted to learn the preaching of Gautam Buddha. The Acharya also governed the community of Buddhist Priests for nearly 60 years during the 2nd Century AD.

http://www.amaravativoice.com/Travel/nagarjunakonda-the-island-to-plan-your-visit

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Where most people go wrong is that they mistake current geography with historical geography.

Even though Telugu people are part of current states of Telangana and Andhra Pradesh, The southern parts of both Chhattisgarh and Odhisha have a considerable portions of Telugu people.

Late President Varahagiri Venkata Giri (V.V.Giri) was from Berhampur in the Ganjam district of Odisha from where the Late PM P. V. Narasimha Rao has also successfully contested. Kota Harinarayana - Programme Director and Chief Designer of India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Programme and Freedom fighter Wunnava Venkata Varaha Buchi Ramalingam are also from the same place. Ganjam is associated with both Kalingas & Gajapatis


upload_2017-6-16_19-56-21.png



Look at the Gajapati Kingdom.

upload_2017-6-14_12-54-43-png.403614


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gajapati_Kingdom

The Gajapatis were a medieval Hindu dynasty from the Indian subcontinent (ଗଜପତି ସାମ୍ରାଜ୍ୟ୍), that ruled over Kalinga region (present Odisha) from 1434 to 1541. Their territory also included large parts of Andhra Pradeshand West Bengal, and the eastern and central parts of Madhya Pradesh and Jharkhand.

The region known as Kalinga (present-day Odisha) was controlled by the Odia rulers Eastern Gangas of the Vasistha gotra. The early Eastern Gangas ruled from Kalinga-nagara (Mukhalingam near Srikakulam, Andhra Pradesh). They shifted their capital to Puri in the 12th century. Religious leader Ramanujacharya had a great influence on the Raja Choda Ganga Deva, who renovated the temple at Puri. Narasimha Deva built the Sun Temple at Konark. The Gangas were succeeded by the Gajapati rulers. Two copper plates of the early Pallava dynasty have been found in the Kolleru Lake, traced to Gajapati Langula Narasimha Deva, an Oriya ruler(Odiya Rajulu/Vaddi). According to legend, the Gajapati fort was located at Kolleti Kota on one of the eastern islands of the lake, which protected the Odia forces. The enemy general encamped at Chiguru Kota located on the shores and tried to excavate a channel in the modern-day Upputeru, so that the water of the lake would empty into the sea and allow an attack on the Gajapathi fort.



upload_2017-6-16_20-21-9.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhattiprolu

Bhattiprolu is a village in Guntur district of the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh. It is the headquarters of Bhattiprolu mandal in Tenali revenue division.[4] It also forms a part of Andhra Pradesh Capital Region.[5] The Buddhist stupa in the village is one of the centrally protected monumemts of national importance.[6]

History[edit]
The original name of Bhattiprolu was Pratipalapura, a flourishing Buddhist town in the ancient Sala kingdom that predated Andhra Satavahanas. From available inscriptional evidence, King Kuberaka was ruling over Bhattiprolu around 230 BC. Bhattiprolu is well known for its Buddha stupa (Vikramarka kota dibba) built about 3rd-2nd century BC.

The stupa and the script[edit]
Main article: Bhattiprolu alphabet
Three mounds were discovered in Bhattiprolu in 1870. In 1892 when excavations were undertaken by Alexander Rea, three inscribed stone relic caskets containing crystal caskets, relics of Buddha and jewels were found.[7]The stupa was found to be 40 meters in diameter with an additional basement of 2.4 meters wide running all around. The most significant discovery is the crystal relic casket of sarira dhatu of the Buddha from the central mass of the stupas. The Mahachaitya (great stupa) remains of a large pillared hall, a large group of ruined votive stupas with several images of Buddha, a stone receptacle containing copper vessel, which in turn, contained two more, a silver casket and within it, a gold casket enclosing beads of bone and crystal were found.

One of the earliest evidence of Brahmi script in South India comes from Bhattiprolu.[8] The script was written on an urn containing Buddha's relics. The script has been named the bhattiprolu alphabet. Historians surmise that this script gave rise to the Telugu Script and kannada script.[9]

"A manual of Krishna District - in the madras presidency: 1883" mentions Public Works Department at that time having demolished beautiful marble pillars, central casket and used the remains in the sluice flowing 2 miles east of bhattiprolu[10]

upload_2017-6-16_20-26-32.png


Here is the map of The great Satavahana Empire with Amaravati as its Capital

upload_2017-6-16_20-35-47.png
 
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