Arabs conqured Gujarat and Malwa/MP in 643 ?

[Indus Pakistan]

Seriously?? Originally inhabited Indians were incapable of developing civilization? Indus Valley Civilization was one of the best civilization at that time. Until the Aryans came and destroyed everything. Roads, Irrigation System, Sewerage System, Houses with 2 floors, Trade.

Do you even know where Indus is? Do you know where Ganges is? The Indus is in Pakistan and and Ganges is in India. Don't bother start blabbing on about Pakistan only being post 1947. That is just a label. A land is made of people. History is all about people. More than 95% of Pakistan is made of native people and you already know who they are. They most definitely are NOT Tamils, Kannad, Assamese or Bengali.

Pakistan > Indus > Indus peoples

India > Ganges > Holy Ganges peoples plus the Dravid/Dalits of peninisula India.

Link > Ahmad Hassan Dani Interview Contents

Dr. Dani is one of the subcontinent's most remarkable archaeologists. A Sanskritologist, he was the first Muslim to graduate from Benares Hindu University. He worked with Sir Mortimer Wheeler and helped him excavate Mohenjo-daro in 1945. After independence he taught in Dhaka, and wrote a classic work on east Indian archaeology.

Dr. Dani is also known for his work on the Gandhara Buddhist period and on Central Asian studies. He has published over 30 books. In 1949, he published the first article linking the Vedic "Hariyupiyah" with today's Harappa; in 1981 he edited Indus Civilization: New Perspectives. He also excavated the famous pre-Indus Civilization site of Rehman Dheri in northern Pakistan.

The buttons on the right take you to selected highlights (in Realaudio ) of an interview with Dani at his home in Islamabad on January 6, 1998. More of the interview is available in an easily

Was there a Dravidian connection? NO.

Q: What do you think about the theory today that the Indus language was a Dravidian language, and that there is a connection between the Indus culture and today's South Indian culture?

"This is generally believed by those who are now working, particularly my friends like Asko Parpola, Professor Mahadevan, and the Russians Professors who have worked on this subject. They have all been working on the assumption that the language of the Indus people was Dravidian, that the people who build the Indus Civilization are Dravidian. But unfortunately I, as well as my friend Prof. B.B. Lal in India, have not been able to agree with this.

Today the Dravidians are living in South India and we always say if they were the builders of the Indus Civilization and if they migrated from here because of some reason or the other, then something of that civilization they should carry into the south except just the language. But so far we have not been able to find any trace of the Indus Civilization in the whole of South India."

 

[Jaat Rock]

Contrary to popular misconception, Indus Valley people were not Dravidians:

As well, the people who came and settled in the Indus Valley, present day Pakistan, most likely came from further North and West. The earlier civilizations that resembled IVC inhabited parts of Iran and Central Asia.

I guess @Atanz knows more about IVC.. talk to him if you're really interested to learn.

I don't believe in this...

There was not any Idol worship at that time so no one can expect to find something some Artefacts of which we see in modern days.
And also Indus Valley Civilization had trade with Central Asia and Iran. Some of the artefacts were part of trade.

 

[Parashu]

Do you even know where Indus is? Do you know where Ganges is? The Indus is in Pakistan and and Ganges is in India. Don't bother start blabbing on about Pakistan only being post 1947. That is just a label. A land is made of people. History is all about people. More than 95% of Pakistan is made of native people and you already know who they are. They most definitely are NOT Tamils, Kannad, Assamese or Bengali.

Pakistan > Indus > Indus peoples

India > Ganges > Holy Ganges peoples plus the Dravid/Dalits of peninisula India.

Ahmad Hassan Dani Interview Contents

Ahmad Hassan Dani

Dr. Dani is one of the subcontinent's most remarkable archaeologists. A Sanskritologist, he was the first Muslim to graduate from Benares Hindu University. He worked with Sir Mortimer Wheeler and helped him excavate Mohenjo-daro in 1945. After independence he taught in Dhaka, and wrote a classic work on east Indian archaeology.

Dr. Dani is also known for his work on the Gandhara Buddhist period and on Central Asian studies. He has published over 30 books. In 1949, he published the first article linking the Vedic "Hariyupiyah" with today's Harappa; in 1981 he edited Indus Civilization: New Perspectives. He also excavated the famous pre-Indus Civilization site of Rehman Dheri in northern Pakistan.

The buttons on the right take you to selected highlights (in Realaudio ) of an interview with Dani at his home in Islamabad on January 6, 1998. More of the interview is available in an easily

Was there a Dravidian connection? NO.

Q: What do you think about the theory today that the Indus language was a Dravidian language, and that there is a connection between the Indus culture and today's South Indian culture?

"This is generally believed by those who are now working, particularly my friends like Asko Parpola, Professor Mahadevan, and the Russians Professors who have worked on this subject. They have all been working on the assumption that the language of the Indus people was Dravidian, that the people who build the Indus Civilization are Dravidian. But unfortunately I, as well as my friend Prof. B.B. Lal in India, have not been able to agree with this.

Today the Dravidians are living in South India and we always say if they were the builders of the Indus Civilization and if they migrated from here because of some reason or the other, then something of that civilization they should carry into the south except just the language. But so far we have not been able to find any trace of the Indus Civilization in the whole of South India."

 

[haviZsultan]

weed + legally supplied daru. myera ek friend bdi party hain.

Genetics of gujaratis

I think icewolf is a Gujarati Muslim.

I wish you luck. That life often takes your mind off education. But its a good life. No constraints-no cultural influences demanding you to follow conservative, parochial thought. Try murree beer sometime. Though I do not drink I would like to see my fellow countrymen-of whichever religion they may be-succeed. So I tell all people who drink I meet to try murree brewery stuff.

 

[Jaat Rock]

Do you even know where Indus is? Do you know where Ganges is? The Indus is in Pakistan and and Ganges is in India. Don't bother start blabbing on about Pakistan only being post 1947. That is just a label. A land is made of people. History is all about people. More than 95% of Pakistan is made of native people and you already know who they are. They most definitely are NOT Tamils, Kannad, Assamese or Bengali.

Pakistan > Indus > Indus peoples

India > Ganges > Holy Ganges peoples plus the Dravid/Dalits of peninisula India.

Ahmad Hassan Dani Interview Contents

Ahmad Hassan Dani

Dr. Dani is one of the subcontinent's most remarkable archaeologists. A Sanskritologist, he was the first Muslim to graduate from Benares Hindu University. He worked with Sir Mortimer Wheeler and helped him excavate Mohenjo-daro in 1945. After independence he taught in Dhaka, and wrote a classic work on east Indian archaeology.

Dr. Dani is also known for his work on the Gandhara Buddhist period and on Central Asian studies. He has published over 30 books. In 1949, he published the first article linking the Vedic "Hariyupiyah" with today's Harappa; in 1981 he edited Indus Civilization: New Perspectives. He also excavated the famous pre-Indus Civilization site of Rehman Dheri in northern Pakistan.

The buttons on the right take you to selected highlights (in Realaudio ) of an interview with Dani at his home in Islamabad on January 6, 1998. More of the interview is available in an easily

Was there a Dravidian connection? NO.

Q: What do you think about the theory today that the Indus language was a Dravidian language, and that there is a connection between the Indus culture and today's South Indian culture?

"This is generally believed by those who are now working, particularly my friends like Asko Parpola, Professor Mahadevan, and the Russians Professors who have worked on this subject. They have all been working on the assumption that the language of the Indus people was Dravidian, that the people who build the Indus Civilization are Dravidian. But unfortunately I, as well as my friend Prof. B.B. Lal in India, have not been able to agree with this.

Today the Dravidians are living in South India and we always say if they were the builders of the Indus Civilization and if they migrated from here because of some reason or the other, then something of that civilization they should carry into the south except just the language. But so far we have not been able to find any trace of the Indus Civilization in the whole of South India."

I didn't said that Indus Valley Civilization was related to South India but it was definitely connected with current North India. And just because one historian believe this doesn't mean everyone believe this theory of his. Many historian have different theories regarding one thing.

 

[Parashu]

Do you even know where Indus is? Do you know where Ganges is? The Indus is in Pakistan and and Ganges is in India. Don't bother start blabbing on about Pakistan only being post 1947. That is just a label. A land is made of people. History is all about people. More than 95% of Pakistan is made of native people and you already know who they are. They most definitely are NOT Tamils, Kannad, Assamese or Bengali.

Pakistan > Indus > Indus peoples

India > Ganges > Holy Ganges peoples plus the Dravid/Dalits of peninisula India.

Link > Ahmad Hassan Dani Interview Contents

Dr. Dani is one of the subcontinent's most remarkable archaeologists. A Sanskritologist, he was the first Muslim to graduate from Benares Hindu University. He worked with Sir Mortimer Wheeler and helped him excavate Mohenjo-daro in 1945. After independence he taught in Dhaka, and wrote a classic work on east Indian archaeology.

Dr. Dani is also known for his work on the Gandhara Buddhist period and on Central Asian studies. He has published over 30 books. In 1949, he published the first article linking the Vedic "Hariyupiyah" with today's Harappa; in 1981 he edited Indus Civilization: New Perspectives. He also excavated the famous pre-Indus Civilization site of Rehman Dheri in northern Pakistan.

The buttons on the right take you to selected highlights (in Realaudio ) of an interview with Dani at his home in Islamabad on January 6, 1998. More of the interview is available in an easily

Was there a Dravidian connection? NO.

Q: What do you think about the theory today that the Indus language was a Dravidian language, and that there is a connection between the Indus culture and today's South Indian culture?

"This is generally believed by those who are now working, particularly my friends like Asko Parpola, Professor Mahadevan, and the Russians Professors who have worked on this subject. They have all been working on the assumption that the language of the Indus people was Dravidian, that the people who build the Indus Civilization are Dravidian. But unfortunately I, as well as my friend Prof. B.B. Lal in India, have not been able to agree with this.

Today the Dravidians are living in South India and we always say if they were the builders of the Indus Civilization and if they migrated from here because of some reason or the other, then something of that civilization they should carry into the south except just the language. But so far we have not been able to find any trace of the Indus Civilization in the whole of South India."

so according to you, who are true descenders of IVC people ?(ethnicity wise)

I wish you luck. That life often takes your mind off education. But its a good life. No constraints-no cultural influences demanding you to follow conservative, parochial thought. Try murree beer sometime. Though I do not drink I would like to see my fellow countrymen-of whichever religion they may be-succeed. So I tell all people who drink I meet to try murree brewery stuff.

thanks but I don't like daru. I have girlfriend and I don't want to loose her

(shes a Muslim) usne final ultimatum CIA hain.

 

[Maira La]

I don't believe in this...

There was not any Idol worship at that time so no one can expect to find something some Artefacts of which we see in modern days.
And also Indus Valley Civilization had trade with Central Asia and Iran. Some of the artefacts were part of trade.

What you or I believe is irrelevant right? If you really want to learn without political bias, please do a little personal research. I'll get back to this topic later when I have time.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I am not going to waste my time with you Indians. Suffice to say this. The entire Ganga India and Peninsula India has no civilization worth talking about. It was in ancient times just full of jungles and aboroginal peoples with the modern Dravidians/Dalits and the other tribals being their remnants in modern India.

Examples of what Ancient Ganga India is below. You think they are heirs to mighty Indus? You got to kidding me. They still are barely civilized. This is what Ancient Ganga India was like. This why modern Indian's do everything to associate and "photobomb" Indus Basin/Pakistan because they themselves have nothing but junglees to show in the past. That is why history of India will always go to the region that is modern Pakistan - Indus Basin for simple fact that is where civilization began. NOT junglee Ganga India.

 

[Parashu]

I am not going to waste my time with you Indians. Suffice to say this. The entire Ganga India and Peninsula India has no civilization worth talking about. It was in ancient times just full of jungles and aboroginal peoples with the modern Dravidians/Dalits and the other tribals being their remnants in modern India.

Examples of what Ancient Ganga India is below. You think they are heirs to mighty Indus? You got to kidding me. They still are barely civilized. This is what Ancient Ganga India was like. This why modern Indian's do everything to associate and "photobomb" Indus Basin/Pakistan because they themselves have nothing but junglees to show in the past. That is why history of India will always go to the region that is modern Pakistan - Indus Basin for simple fact that is where civilization began. NOT junglee Ganga India.

Gujarat,Punjab and Rajasthan were part of UVC too.

 

[Bornubus]

I am not going to waste my time with you Indians. Suffice to say this. The entire Ganga India and Peninsula India has no civilization worth talking about. It was in ancient times just full of jungles and aboroginal peoples with the modern Dravidians/Dalits and the other tribals being their remnants in modern India.

Examples of what Ancient Ganga India is below. You think they are heirs to mighty Indus? You got to kidding me. They still are barely civilized. This is what Ancient Ganga India was like. This why modern Indian's do everything to associate and "photobomb" Indus Basin/Pakistan because they themselves have nothing but junglees to show in the past. That is why history of India will always go to the region that is modern Pakistan - Indus Basin for simple fact that is where civilization began. NOT junglee Ganga India.

Thats not ganga valley you illiterate driver and even shoe produced at ganga valley has more worth than your land which can best produce TTP.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Gujarat,Punjab and Rajasthan were part of UVC too.

Indus Basin is the area adjacent to Indus River. This area is central to Pakistan like River Nile is to Egypt. Like most things in life things don't fit into boxes. The IVC and it is called that because "I" stands for Indus spilled into neighbouring areas.

Think it this way. What are the regions in India that spill over from Pakistan? Well you got Indian Punjab is is just extention of Pakistani Punjab. Then you have adjacent Gujrat. Then it also pilled over into Afghanistan also.

Ancient Egyptian civilization had spread deep into Sudan however that does not change the fact that the mainstay was in Eygpt. Therefore IVC is in Pakistan with some spillover into adjacent areas like Afghanistan and India.

BTW which states are adjacent to Pakistan in India?


Here look at the geography as it speaks better than words. Follow the mighty Indus River in Pakistan the home of IVC.

It is Indus Basin in Pakistan is even visible from space. Do you see that green strip with deserts on both sides running all the way south into Arabian Sea ? Most of it is Khyber Pakhtun, Punjab and Sindh in Pakistan.

Now do you want maps of where most Indians live? Where the Ganga India is? We all know it is holy to Hindus. Here:-

Watch how safely it staysaway from IVC and Indus in Pakistan.

Here is differant water basins in Asia. Ganga in India and Indus in Pakistan.That is why I call Indians "Ganga dwellers" as opposed to Pakistani "Indus people".

And then of course how can I forget the Dravidian/Dalit minefield or otherwise South India/Peninisula India.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Indus Basin - Pakistan is actually mostly desert. It is the Indus River that brings glaciel meltwater from the Tibetan plateaux in China that sustains Pakistan. Without it the vast irrigation that sustains the irrigation system in Pakistan would not be possible. Pakistan would turn to desert again. Modern Pakistan is gift of Indus River like River Indus was a gift to our forefathers in Harappa and Mohenjo Daro who could not have survived without her water like River Nile is to Egypt.

Meantime in Ganga India true to form the Hindu also know what is gift to them. The gift to India is the holy Ganga which is why they regard it sacred river. Look at the Indians taking pride and respecting their holy river.

Mata Ganga - India

That's right. Be cleansed in the holy Ganga.

Worship Mata Ganga - At least they know what is important.

Millions of Hindus gather at the Ganges in India for the Maha Kumbh Mela - Telegraph
Ganges River | Faithology

So keep it simple.

India > Holy Ganga
Pakistan > Mighty Indus
Egypt > Mighty Nile

By cooncidence even our capitals reflect this. Islamabad is in centre of Indus basin and only 20 miles east of Indus River. whereas Delhi is next to Yamuna tributary of Ganga.

 

[Jaat Rock]

Indus Basin - Pakistan is actually mostly desert. It is the Indus River that brings glaciel meltwater from the Tibetan plateaux in China that sustains Pakistan. Without it the vast irrigation that sustains the irrigation system in Pakistan would not be possible. Pakistan would turn to desert again. Modern Pakistan is gift of Indus River like River Indus was a gift to our forefathers in Harappa and Mohenjo Daro who could not have survived without her water like River Nile is to Egypt.

Meantime in Ganga India true to form the Hindu also know what is gift to them. The gift to India is the holy Ganga which is why they regard it sacred river. Look at the Indians taking pride and respecting their holy river.

Mata Ganga - India

That's right. Be cleansed in the holy Ganga.

Worship Mata Ganga - At least they know what is important.

Millions of Hindus gather at the Ganges in India for the Maha Kumbh Mela - Telegraph
Ganges River | Faithology

So keep it simple.

India > Holy Ganga
Pakistan > Mighty Indus
Egypt > Mighty Nile

Indus river go through Ladakh and J&K (India) and Indus Basin also include Indian Punjab and Haryana according to your this map.

So, it should be like this
India > Holy Ganga and Mighty Indus
Pakistan > Mighty Indus

 

[Sine Nomine]

so what Muslims are just 10% in North West India

Actually by that time preaching was declined,kings were little interested in preaching religion.

 

[Maira La]

Thats not ganga valley you illiterate driver and even shoe produced at ganga valley has more worth than your land which can best produce TTP.

Ganges India and Peninsular India are interchangeable terms for the region beyond the civilized lands that ended around the periphery of the Indus. That's because the Ganges valley and the rest of the peninsula had the same jungles, people and primitive animist traditions.