Any questions Regarding India

[Joe Shearer]

Again the Aryan Invasion theory.

You could do better saying it "might" have been and not it "was". I tend to believe the latter given the lack of facts supporting the AIT best exemplified in post 1195.




There are many temples in Tamil Nadu, for example, that date much before the 14th century time line you have given - for example Pragadeeswarar temple, the Shore temple, the Madurai Meenakshi Amman temple, the Natarajar temple, the Kamakshi Amman temple, Ramanathaswamy temple (Rameswaram) to name a few.

And how come Mahmud of Ghazni gets to plunder Somnath temple in the 11th century when temples appeared only in the late 14th century. Or have I got your intended timeline wrong ?

Except that a good overview.

I went back and took a look. You misread my timeline. Temples appear when they should, post-Sankaracharya.

 

[Bhairava]

I went back and took a look. You misread my timeline. Temples appear when they should, post-Sankaracharya.

This part is misleading then as anyone at first look will take the time line to be the 14th century.

...................They still lingered until the 14th century. It was a religion which had millions following it, and did not vanish overnight.

It was at this time, late in the day, that temples appeared, and idols began to be worshipped, ironically, just before their biggest enemies appeared on the scene....................

Moreover the still I am not satisfied with your point that temples appeared post Adi Shankara. The Shore temple for example was built by Narasimma varman in the 8th century before Adi Shankara was born. Sri Rangam temple has been glorified in the Divya Prabhandam which is also pre-Adi Shankara. And who can forget the fact that Adi Shankara established the Sri Chakra at the Kamashi Amman temple which is known today as the Kanchi Kamakodi peetham ? I'm just mentioning the famous temples so that non-Tamils can also identify that and there are many other temples that date back before the post-shankara timeline given. There might be other regional temples in other states that also date back.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This part is misleading then as anyone at first look will take the time line to be the 14th century.



Moreover the still I am not satisfied with your point that temples appeared post Adi Shankara. The Shore temple for example was built by Narasimma varman in the 8th century. Sri Rangam temple has been glorified in the Divya Prabhandam which is also pre-Adi Shankara. And who can forget the fact that Adi Shankara established the Sri Chakra at the Kamashi Amman temple which is known today as the Kanchi Kamakodi peetham ? I'm just mentioning the famous temples so that non-Tamils can also identify that and there are many other temples that date back before the post-shankara timeline given.

Why should it be misleading? It appears where it should, during the phase of the Hindu revival, which I have chosen to demarcate with the advent of Sankaracharya. Arguably it can be dated back to the Imperial Guptas. At the same time, it holds true that there was no period at which Hinduism disappeared altogether, or Buddhism prevailed utterly. Even a Hindu king did not normally go out of his way to provoke Buddhists, or a Buddhist supporter oppress the Hindus.

So take the dates of the Sankaracharya as a marker, please.

Similarly with temple building. There is no single date that we can point to, so saying 8th century perfectly well meets the purpose. If you read my passage, no causal relationship was suggested, merely a proximity of events for easier understanding.

A cavil: you may cite the others, please don't cite Kanchi. Let us not discuss that issue here.

 

[Bhairava]

Why should it be misleading? It appears where it should, during the phase of the Hindu revival

I'm saying the sentence structure is misleading and implying the time line as 14th century which was not your intention. Hence my original post.

So take the dates of the Sankaracharya as a marker, please.

Similarly with temple building. There is no single date that we can point to, so saying 8th century perfectly well meets the purpose. If you read my passage, no causal relationship was suggested, merely a proximity of events for easier understanding.

A cavil: you may cite the others, please don't cite Kanchi. Let us not discuss that issue here.

The point I'm trying to make is the date or even the century when the worship of idols started cant be said with any certainity. For example, in Coimbatore Archaelogical dept there is an idol of Lord Muruga which about 1800 years old.

If it strictly concerned building huge temples, then maybe the practise started somewhere in the 7-8th century CE as I have not heard of any temple older than that. Ill give you that.

 

[Dubious]

Please try to understand some fundamentals.k

There is no uniform "Indian" point of view, on any subject. The diversity of opinions within any given group of Indians, except some borderline extremist fringe elements belonging to various religions, is so noticeable that two books have been written about this trait, Haroun and the Sea of Stories, and The Argumentative Indian. Both are very readable. However, I suggest you do NOT read the first, as it will make unpleasant reading for those who comprehend and who are Pakistani. The point is that Indians are diverse in their views, and some of your causes for complaint may stem from those diversities.

First, about Pakistan and its creation; partition of British India. Some Indians regret partition.

One group regrets the bloodshed, another regrets the dislocation of people from their ancient homes,

Well, we moved for a better land those who moved from Pakistan wanted to while those who remained wanted to as Indians...It was their choice! No one pushed either out! Plus the Hindus and Muslims fighting and killing each other just gave a push to each to make the ultimate choice!!! Our forefathers did what at that time, they saw was best for them and their future generations!

a third set regrets the separation of land and people from a whole that should not, according to them, have been broken up to give room for growth for adherents of a religion that is alien to India.

800 years and still alien? When does it start becoming familiar? Before Hinduism, there was something else and Hinduism too came from "aliens"/ foreigners!! Just I am surprised how can 800 years and still be considered foreign/ alien but something which was born yesterday (atheism) is already best buddies and at home in India?

This third group also dislikes Pakistan whatever Pakistanis and the state of Pakistan might or might not do. Their dislike is ideological, and is not affected by phenomena like facts.

Do not worry, I do not deny we have similar Pakistanis here!

Other Indians dislike the state of Pakistan for the evil things that it is thought to do, or to sponsor, and perhaps fanatic Pakistanis who mean harm to India, but not to Pakistanis in general. A third group is different from the second, because it is sentimentally attached to those Pakistanis who would have been neighbours if the country had not got partitioned. A fourth group could not care less about such sentimentality,but feel close to Pakistanis of their sort, liberal, not obsessed with religion, cherishing democracy, wishful for development of their respective countries and not inclined to rake up the issues of the past.

TAKE a look at the posts on this forum alone! How many have support radicalized MULLAHS? Except 3-4 members almost all have spoken AGAINST mullah-ism! And everyone has clearly REPEATED over and over MUSLIM RELIGIOUS PARTIES DO NOT WIN EVEN 20% OF THE VOTES!! THAT itself carries weight as to how popular THOSE people are!

So, I am not sure why all the bashing?

Take the matter of being held up for scornful comments, even though your country suffers from bomb attacks as much, or in fact, much, much more than Indians do.

I am ready to stand up against them ONLY if someone is here to learn..because I support educating people to bridge the differences! BUT ONCE they turn troll mode on or just come here to spit their bottled up anger...It becomes intolerable and mere mockery!

The plain truth is that many Indians do not make a public noise about it, but believe that the difference between a bomb going off in Pakistan and one going off in India is that Pakistan's state establishment has a history and a track record of using terrorism as a military strategy, of encouraging private individuals to train and deploy terrorist squads, and of refusing to act against these individuals when they and their activities are brought to the attention of the Pakistani authorities.

I am not sure how aware you are...BUT YOU have just listed what the MOSSAD do for a living! YET you are prepared to shake hands with them and stick to them like twin brothers?!

Since the Indian state does not encourage Indians to train people in violence, to give them guns and ammunition, to guide them across the boundaries and borders, and to offer them safe haven if they are running from the affected country's security services,

How sure are you about your government's activities?! If it was THAT crystal clear they wouldn't have SECRET AGENCIES, SPYING AGENCIES AND FILTERS! Why do you think RAW, ISI, MOSSAD, USA have all these? DO they go to other people's countries to play like a normal citizen just sit low and spy? Are you THAT naive?

such Indians do not hesitate to complain about Pakistan although bombs are going off in Pakistan as well; to them, this is just an outcome of the terribly wrong things done by Pakistani authorities against the state and the innocent people of India.

YOU have no idea HOW many Pakistanis think that EACH bomb blast is either USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL doings! We can also complain and cry out loud but we are quietly enduring it! We have more bombs going off and mind you citizens are terrified and angered! They do not understand WHO is funding it and WHY...Those who think they understand from conspiracy theories point at USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL...But those who are confused are angry at the own govt for not fixing it...

Indians if watch news soo much should also know we have not had a stead government for YEARS! We are in enough crap and do not really need any more...Most come to this thread to release the anger while others come to hope that all what they hear is wrong...But Indians doing what they are doing are not making it any easy!

USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL
Just to clarify, there are very few people who think that a terrorist group plans and plots against India during the day and Pakistan during the night.

MY PERSONAL view is that there are groups who just do not want a HAPPY SOUTH ASIA! Because happiness here will mean strength! Like that fable where breaking 1 twig is easy but breaking a bundle of twigs held together (united) is tough!

USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL
Not so. They know that there are different groups of terrorists floating around. One group of groups concentrate on terrorizing India and
Indians; other groups concentrate their vile activities on killing people from other sects. Some more attack Pakistan and Pakistanis as part of their war against the Americans. This is known, but people want to know when Pakistan will crack down on these activities, and help herself as much as helping neighbours.

So, please do not generalize and talk about how "Indians" offend you.

Well, We need a good leader and government to lead us...Once that happens MOST is sorted! BUT the same outside powers probably won't allow it! You have no idea how many of us have our fingers crossed for the upcoming elections!

 

[Dubious]

This is a really tough one, and the interpretation has made monkeys out of a lot of us who think that we know a lot. Therefore, for what is to follow, you owe me a banana.

Our languages, in certain cases, were one. Not all languages. Arabic, and Hebrew, for instance, are very closely related, and they do not relate to English,German, Dutch, French, Italian, Spanish and the rest of that. Or to Iranian or any of the north indian languages, or, separately, to the Dravidian languages, Tamil, Telugu, Kannada or Malayalam. Or to Chinese. Or to Japanese. Or to the languages spoken in south Africa.

There are different 'language groups' used by scholars to group languages that they consider similar. These groups are highly controversial. Linguists do not agree completely on which language goes into which group, or how much a group should cover. There are languages which do not fall into any group at all, and have no resemblance to any other. One, Burashaski, spoken in Pakistan has no known connections. Others, Finnish and Magyar, spoken by the Hungarians, are close to each other, but to no other language. Perhaps one of the stablest and most robust groups, because languages within them have remarkable resemblances, is the Indo-European group of languages. In India and in Pakistan, this includes Punjabi, Sindhi, Pushto; Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati - in fact, most of the languages well known in north India.

That was the easy part. Now comes the difficult part.

People speaking the same language are not necessarily related to one another, or descended from common ancestors. They just happen to be speaking the same language.

We do not know for certain who brought the first of the Indo-European languages into India. This was Indo-Aryan, known more commonly as Vedic Sanskrit. it might have been an individual, or a single family, or a group of families, or a tribe, or a group of tribes, or a whole people, including all its tribes. At the moment, by reading the Vedas carefully and analyzing its contents, it seems that there may have been a group of tribes, who seem to have had connections with tribes that they left behind on the other side of the Hindu Kush, and kept up these connections for several hundreds of years after they first separated.

What happened to those who came into India? They vanished. They were relatively so small in numbers compared to those already staying there that in a few centuries, they mingled completely with the original inhabitants. Now, to make out who came from where, it needs blood analysis of a very sophisticated type to figure things out.

Rather than putting things in place right down to the last comma, it seems preferable to let people draw their own conclusions.

Interesting I am studying genetics and well all that is not as easy as said in literature! It takes YEARS of work and commitment AND OF COURSE funding!!

Yea new theories are always evolving as new evidence is being brought in by newer technologies!

Thanks for a briefing!

 

[Dubious]

The Aryan Invasion Theory has undergone many changes over the years. When first proposed, it presumed that North Indians (including Pakistan) were Aryans & the South Indians were Dravidians & that the races were different. They even suggested that facial characteristics of North & South Indians were different as proof. When sample sizes were increased, it was proved that there was no particular distinction between the "Aryans" & "Dravidians". When that happened, more head scratching followed but they stuck to the guns. However when Genetic studies proved that the Indian population had a common genetic character going back some 40000 years, this holding on to the theory of a mass migration became untenable & some came up with the idea that the Aryans were small in number & were absorbed into existing population leaving no traces except their languages. Possible? May be, who knows? It is a theory constantly changing to suit the facts. The Aryan Invasion theory is a strange, strange part of history because it is the only reading of history not supported by archaeological evidence but by linguistics. A case of history sought to be written by linguists & not, as normally done, by archaeologists. Which is why most archaeologists are mighty suspicious(to put it mildly) of this "history".

I have been wanting to ask about this genetic studies...You see, many publications actually state which DNA they studied...There are certain "stuff" which is passed SOLELY through the Y chromosome and some ONLY found in the X...SO, I wanted to know if the studies were done on both genders and were these characteristics chromosomal distributed?!

This would be able to tell us if the Aryans who moved were maybe only men? If so, then the Y would carry an imprint from the Aryans while the X would be the original people of India...However if women were also part of the move then there would be mixture...So, if anyone can give me a link to that study I would be interested in browsing through. Because whoever talks about this genetic studies ONLY states it as : "A genetic study was done on Indians..." But I am yet to find a detailed version and read it myself!

What we know

The Aryan languages of the sub continent are related to other languages of Iran & Europe.
There is a distinct connection between Aryan culture of India & Aryan culture of Iran.


What we don't know/ can't explain

How a group of people so few in number (supposedly) that they were absorbed by a larger residing population leaving behind no traces of their existence could somehow completely wipe clean huge area of any other linguistic & cultural influence, how they would so dominate a culture that the people so dominated would completely forget their past & remember themselves solely as Aryans & follow their religion & call the land "Aryavarta" meaning abode of the Aryans.

Well, you are using the Hindu scriptures to measure the time of the migration and who migrated from where rather than using the archaeologist evidence to match the time of the scriptures and migration...

Since it is clear from archaeological discoveries that men moved out of AFRICA...Could it be that the 1st migration split into 2 groups - 1 moving to South Asia while another staying near Iran and other countries mentioned? Hence, having a similar language?

The second part we don't know is the timeline. Various theories of a time line for this "invasion" have been put forward with most proponents putting it around 1500 BCE which is also the time line given for the composition of the Rg Veda.

Problems with the above timeline :

Sarasvati:

The most important river in the Rg veda mentioned more times than any other river including the Ganges & the Indus. The river is a problem because it is regarded in the Rg Veda as being in full flow which by the time of the Mahabharata was a dying river. Though attempts connecting it to the Helmand river (Haraxvaiti) in Afghanistan have been made (to fit in with the AIT), there are enough references to put it in Northern India, flowing through Haryana on into the Rann of Kutch, thought to be the Ghaggar-Hakra system. There is some evidence from Satellite imagery that the Yamuna & the Sutlej originally flowed into it which would explain why it was more mighty than either the Indus or the Ganges & also explain its disappearance when tectonic shifts cause those rivers to flow to the Ganges & the Indus respectively.

The question is when exactly did this river disappear? That would be important to date the Rg Veda which was largely composed on its banks. The theory is that the river dried out between 2500 BCE -1900 BCE though some( Henri-Paul Francfort )have suggested that this is a pre-Harappan river drying out in the 4th millemium BCE (3800 BCE). What is clearly known in that painted Grey Ware sites (dated 1000 BCE) have been found in the river bed (not on the banks) of the Ghaggar-Hakra river suggesting that the river was long dried before then.

If Grey Ware sites were dated 1000 BC this means hat the 3800 BC theory is wrong...and that it was not dried out long before....1000 years BC () is more recent than 3800 theory

The Mitanni:

They are the other problem for the dating of the arival of the "Aryans" since they ruled areas of Iraq,Turkey & Syria around 1500 BCE & were connected linguistically & religiously to the Indo-Aryans specifically & not to the more general Indo-Iranians which would mean they separated or had some connection to the "Aryans" of India proper which would then push back the supposed arrival of the Aryans.

The dating of the Aryan arrival is important because there has to be a connection with the other related linguistic groups who supposedly separated from each other. The History for those people is somewhat difficult to prove beyond this date, actually even to this date, this being the latest (1500 BCE)that the Aryans of India can supposedly be dated. Even proven history for an Iranian civilisation does not go that back. Hence the dates are an important point.

Rg Veda:

The Rg Veda remains the oldest evidence of an Aryan composition but strangely for a people who mentioned everything & remembered it in the orally transmitted tradition for hundreds of years, they have no knowledge of this supposed great migration. There are no references in the Rg veda to any lands outside the Indian sub-continent & Afghanistan & no references to any non-Aryan language encountered in the Indian sub continent . A difficult proposition to believe that people learnt to remember things only after coming to India & not before.

The above is mentioned, not in support of any other theory, certainly not the OOI (out of India) theory which has no archaeological/historical support either but just that this is a far more unexplained piece of history than what is generally suggested.

 

[Dubious]

This second phase was also the phase when old poems and folk tales were put together to form two epics, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, the latter huge compared to the former.

The story of the first is simple, how a king kills a boy accidentally, how he is cursed by the boy's father, how he loses his son to the curse and dies of grief, and the son's adventures in exile, in the forest, along with his wife, who refused to leave him, or his loyal half-brother. In the forest, the wife was abducted by a demon king, who swept her away to his distant kingdom. The rest of the story is about how the young prince gathered allies, raised a strange army and attacked and defeated the demon king, before returning home to his own kingdom. It has very dark patches, and also very moral homilies about the nature of man, the duties of a king, faith and loyalty, treachery and courage - in fact, almost every human emotion has its role. I hate reading it because the prince I was named after is murdered while he was praying, unarmed.

Sorry I am lost in the 1st para itself

King kills boy accidently...King is cursed and his son dies...then who is this "son"??

 

[Dubious]

Please ask for clarifications as I don't know how much depth would be appropriate.

Oh don't worry about that I ask ALOT of questions...Usually get told off but still have the habit

My question:

How old is the vedas? Because you are talking about Buddha in here....and as previous posters wrote that it talks mostly about India, was Hinduism for India only? I mean I think throughout the thread (sorry I MIGHT be combining a few theories with the vedas...been reading some posts)..

Was the vedas brought to the IVC people or did they inherit it? I mean how did it come to being the book? Was there messenger? How long did it take for the book to reveal? Because it states alot of stuff and about the flood and does it talk about Buddhism? If it does wouldn't it suggest it came AFTER Buddhism otherwise how can a religion which is older than Buddhism talk about Buddha?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Another point, the Hindu pantheon of Shiva,Vishnu and Brahma were established much before that timeline too for the simple reason they were mentioned as such in the epics - Ramayana and Mahabharatha which were written much before that as you had mentioned in the post.

That is correct.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm saying the sentence structure is misleading and implying the time line as 14th century which was not your intention. Hence my original post.

The point I'm trying to make is the date or even the century when the worship of idols started cant be said with any certainity. For example, in Coimbatore Archaelogical dept there is an idol of Lord Muruga which about 1800 years old.

If it strictly concerned building huge temples, then maybe the practise started somewhere in the 7-8th century CE as I have not heard of any temple older than that. Ill give you that.

The sentence structures are clumsy, no doubt about that. If I was working with a keyboard, they would have looked rather different, I know.

1800 years ago? 2nd century? Not impossible, because we have researched the Deccan so lightly; nothing will surprise me about the south after Arikamedu. But if true,breathtaking. Details and references please?

 

[Bhairava]

800 years and still alien? When does it start becoming familiar? Before Hinduism, there was something else and Hinduism too came from "aliens"/ foreigners!! Just I am surprised how can 800 years and still be considered foreign/ alien but something which was born yesterday (atheism) is already best buddies and at home in India?

No maam. What was there before Hinduism or how Hinduism came to the subcontinent is still shrouded in mystery and hence cant say for sure that it was alien. None of the Vedas - the earliest scriptures in Hinduism have any reference to any land other than the subcontinent and this about 2000 years before Christ was conceived. So for all intents and purposes, Hinduism was founded on this land and hence native to this land. I'll requote what I said in a earlier post :

Hinduism is deeply tied to this land (India). Nearly every river, mountain, plain, village etc. is holy and plays into the mythology. Nearly every Hindu in India lives within the actual settings of their mythology, walks the same ground as their Gods, Rishis, Gurus and all his epics take place within the geographical boundaries of this country. It's very hard to sever that spiritual relationship with time and space.

Unfortunately same cant be said of Islam in the subcontinent. People may have learnt to live with each other..but does that change the fact that Islam was conceived in the Middle East, its Rasool is an Arab, its initial warriors were all Arab, the Khalifa Rshidun were all Arab, the epic battles were all set in Arabia and the sacred places are in Arabia ? Hence the dichotomy.

 

[Bhairava]

1800 years ago? 2nd century? Not impossible, because we have researched the Deccan so lightly; nothing will surprise me about the south after Arikamedu. But if true,breathtaking. Details and references please?

It was found in one of the tribal hamlets in hills near one of the temples (Marudamalai) in CBE and now rests in the Archaelogical office in Cbe. Dont have pictures as such, but remember it becoming a local news back when I was in Cbe.

Oh yeah made of stone.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well, we moved for a better land those who moved from Pakistan wanted to remain as Indians...It was their choice! No one pushed either out! Plus the Hindus and Muslims fighting and killing each other just gave a push to each to make the ultimate choice!!! Our forefathers did what at that time, they saw was best for them and their future generations!



800 years and still alien? When does it start becoming familiar? Before Hinduism, there was something else and Hinduism too came from "aliens"/ foreigners!! Just I am surprised how can 800 years and still be considered foreign/ alien but something which was born yesterday (atheism) is already best buddies and at home in India?



Do not worry, I do not deny we have similar Pakistanis here!



TAKE a look at the posts on this forum alone! How many have support radicalized MULLAHS? Except 3-4 members almost all have spoken AGAINST mullah-ism! And everyone has clearly REPEATED over and over MUSLIM RELIGIOUS PARTIES DO NOT WIN EVEN 20% OF THE VOTES!! THAT itself carries weight as to how popular THOSE people are!

So, I am not sure why all the bashing?



I am ready to stand up against them ONLY if someone is here to learn..because I support educating people to bridge the differences! BUT ONCE they turn troll mode on or just come here to spit their bottled up anger...It becomes intolerable and mere mockery!


I am not sure how aware you are...BUT YOU have just listed what the MOSSAD do for a living! YET you are prepared to shake hands with them and stick to them like twin brothers?!


How sure are you about your government's activities?! If it was THAT crystal clear they wouldn't have SECRET AGENCIES, SPYING AGENCIES AND FILTERS! Why do you think RAW, ISI, MOSSAD, USA have all these? DO they go to other people's countries to play like a normal citizen just sit low and spy? Are you THAT naive?



YOU have no idea HOW many Pakistanis think that EACH bomb blast is either USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL doings! We can also complain and cry out loud but we are quietly enduring it! We have more bombs going off and mind you citizens are terrified and angered! They do not understand WHO is funding it and WHY...Those who think they understand from conspiracy theories point at USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL...But those who are confused are angry at the own govt for not fixing it...

Indians if watch news soo much should also know we have not had a stead government for YEARS! We are in enough crap and do not really need any more...Most come to this thread to release the anger while others come to hope that all what they hear is wrong...But Indians doing what they are doing are not making it any easy!

USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL
Just to clarify, there are very few people who think that a terrorist group plans and plots against India during the day and Pakistan during the night.

MY PERSONAL view is that there are groups who just do not want a HAPPY SOUTH ASIA! Because happiness here will mean strength! Like that fable where breaking 1 twig is easy but breaking a bundle of twigs held together (united) is tough!

USA, INDIAN OR ISRAEL
Not so. They know that there are different groups of terrorists floating around. One group of groups concentrate on terrorizing India and
Indians; other groups concentrate their vile activities on killing people from other sects. Some more attack Pakistan and Pakistanis as part of their war against the Americans. This is known, but people want to know when Pakistan will crack down on these activities, and help herself as much as helping neighbours.

So, please do not generalize and talk about how "Indians" offend you.

Well, We need a good leader and government to lead us...Once that happens MOST is sorted! BUT the same outside powers probably won't allow it! You have no idea how many of us have our fingers crossed for the upcoming elections![/QUOTE]



Three points on your comments:

These are not my views, represented as typical Indian points of view. I trust that is understood, and that your responses are intended for the holders of such views.

Second, India is friendly with Israeli scientific, technical and commercial entities. Mossad does not come into the picture.

Third, you, and other Pakistanis, are not to be blamed for imagining that India functions just like Pakistan does. As it happens, India does not. Under Gujral, another Punjabi sentimentalist who dissolved at the thought of Pakistani Punjab, the operations of R&W were strictly curtailed. Violence of all sorts was forbidden, even entire networks in some neighbouring countries were withdrawn. Since then these instructions have not been rescinded. Asking how this is known will be foolish and childlike.

Personally, your comments were very persuasive, fair and dignified, though spirited. It remains to be seen how other Indians, including those hostile to you, react.

Interesting I am studying genetics and well all that is not as easy as said in literature! It takes YEARS of work and commitment AND OF COURSE funding!!

Yea new theories are always evolving as new evidence is being brought in by newer technologies!

Thanks for a briefing!

And the banana? Vaidyas have a saying, " Dakshina chharaa pothyo pore naa." you better pay up.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sorry I am lost in the 1st para itself

King kills boy accidently...King is cursed and his son dies...then who is this "son"??

Read the book like a swords and sorcery book by, say, Robert Jordan. It is actually better. The king losing his son was about losing his son to a period of exile. The prince didn't die.