Anti-Vietnam Sentiment against Vietnamese with Chinese Citizenship living in China

[Tesla85]

Oversea Chinese are not the elites.

The most elite Chinese remain in the Mainland China.

Also, the Mainland Chinese are much better looking those oversea Chinese.

Elite doesn't mean necessarily mean millionaires and billionaires. It just means they are professional-class, college educated and/or affluent business owners. By this definition, overseas Chinese are elites.

Overseas Vietnamese and Chinese Vietnamese are not elites. For Vietnamese, only the very first wave in 1975 right after the fall of Saigon was elite. The total number in 1975 was about 175,000 ?? refugees, IIRC. One study says that about 50% of the Vietnamese families that came in 1975 had at least one parent with a 4 year college degree, namely the man/father/husband, i.e. so the college degree attainment rate was about 25%. But after this first wave, it was just poor or average people, mostly. The 1980 US Census data put the 4 year college education rate at about 13% ?? IIRC, for Vietnamese. The rate for blacks in 1980 was about 17%. The 1990 US Census data put the 4 year college degree attainment rate at about 17-18% ??, IIRC. The 2000's US Census data put the Vietnamese 4 year college degree rate about 22-23% ??, IIRC. The 2010 rate was about 28%. In 2015 is is probably about 32-33% is my guess. So the older generation which lacked college education is dying off fast as the younger educated generation is replacing them.

The white rate is now about 30%, For Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, it is about 45%. For Filipinos it is about 45%. For Asian Indians it is about 66%. Taiwanese also have really high college degree rates, similar to Asian Indians. For Nigerians it is about 40%. Unless they are war refugees, or Mexican illegals, all immigrants groups, collectively speaking, are elite with much higher rates of 4 year degree attainment than native whites.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Elite doesn't mean necessarily mean millionaires and billionaires. It just means they are professional-class, college educated and/or affluent business owners. By this definition, overseas Chinese are elites.

Overseas Vietnamese and Chinese Vietnamese are not elites. For Vietnamese, only the very first wave in 1975 right after the fall of Saigon was elite. The total number in 1975 was about 175,000 ?? refugees, IIRC. One study says that about 50% of the Vietnamese families that came in 1975 had at least one parent with a 4 year college degree, namely the man/father/husband, i.e. so the college degree attainment rate was about 25%. But after this first wave, it was just poor or average people, mostly. The 1980 US Census data put the 4 year college education rate at about 13% ?? IIRC, for Vietnamese. The rate for blacks in 1980 was about 17%. The 1990 US Census data put the 4 year college degree attainment rate at about 17-18% ??, IIRC. The 2000's US Census data put the Vietnamese 4 year college degree rate about 22-23% ??, IIRC. The 2010 rate was about 28%. In 2015 is is probably about 32-33% is my guess. So the older generation which lacked college education is dying off fast as the younger educated generation is replacing them.

The white rate is now about 30%, For Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, it is about 45%. For Filipinos it is about 45%. For Asian Indians it is about 66%. Taiwanese also have really high college degree rates, similar to Asian Indians. For Nigerians it is about 40%. Unless they are war refugees, or Mexican illegals, all immigrants groups, collectively speaking, are elite with much higher rates of 4 year degree attainment than native whites.

The biggest contributors to the development of the modern China are the Mainland Chinese, not the oversea Chinese.

1.3 billion Mainland Chinese vs 3 million Chinese-Americans, it is no brainer that the Mainland Chinese is going to triumph overwhelmingly in every field.

 

[Tesla85]

Yes, you do sound like a Vietnamese wanting to be Chinese/East Asian.

Projection.

1. You quoted from dodgy unproven source

Let me quote you Razib Khan again. This time read carefully.

South Chinese = North Chinese + Vietnamese/Dai

In History and Geography of Human Genes L. L. Cavalli-Sforza reported that Southern Chinese formed a clade with Southeast Asians, while Northern Chinese formed one with Northeast Chinese. Genome-wide results don’t seem to support this inference. The Han do exhibit north-south structure.

The Southern Chinese do have closer affinities to southeast Asian groups and ethnic minorities in the south.

Many of the native ethnic groups of China proper don’t seem to be that different than Han Chinese. In fact, they resemble Han in their own region. This might be gene flow, or, it might just be that the Han for whatever reason were the demographic winners over the last 4,000 years in China proper and marginalized the other groups.

Source: google: "Razib Khan South Chinese = North Chinese + Vietnamese/Dai"

Note first that Khan cites Cavali-Sforza. Who is this "dodgy unproven source" Cavali-Sforza?

Eh. Cavali-Sforza is the godfather of human evolutionary genetics. He's Standford emeritus.

What NatGeo did is a commercial TV program, NatGeo did NOT any DNA analysis.

Eh. google: "genographic nationalgeographic"

Then click on "Buy The Kit" button near the top.

The kit cost $199.95.

As of 10/13/2015 NatGeo has 742,652 participants/customers from 142 countries.

This has got to be the biggest, most comprehensive study on the planet.

Here's my question: What the HELL are you talking about?

Razib Khan is student blogger who hasn't even earned his degree. No scientist worth his salt would pair DNA based nationality or regional geography. So If I'm a Malaysian, is my breakdown 30% Singapore and 70% Indonesian? That's absurd..

You mean like NatGeo?

You're obviously not reading, so I post it again:

Below,
1. NEA = Northeast Asian, SEA = Southeast Asian.
2. In the quote below, Chinese are not separated between Northern and Southern Han, as they should be. . Geneticist delineate between Northern and Southern Han based on genetic distances. Southern Han like
Vietnamese have SEA maternal ancestry, via numerous mtDNA studies going back 25 years.
3. Koreans are not given in this particular data set.

Your Regional Ancestry: Reference Populations

Kinh = 57% NEA + 43% SEA
Chinese = 72% NEA + 28% SEA
Japan = 75% NEA + 25% SEA
Mongolian = 65% NEA + 12% Southwest Asian + 4% Native American + 9% SEA + 6% Northern European

Source: google "Your Regional Ancestry: Reference Populations"

This is NatGeo again, the numbers above are their numbers. They even put it in a neat & nifty colored bars format.

Google it. And do it this time.

2 I gleamed thru the article you posted. It has no reference to this paragraph of yours.

"This could mean proto-Vietnamese are the parents of modern Chinese and Japanese, quite the opposite of what you are trying to project onto Vietnamese generally (genetically), and the motives of Vietnames netizens in particular. Indeed, many geneticists have for decades believed the peopling of both NE Asia and SE Asia came thru Northern Vietnam, vis-a-vis studies on certain key mtDNA and Y-DNA markers."

I'll get back to you about his later.

3. I don't rent white guy, please re-direct your trolling somewhere else.

Projection.

You really need to watch the full 15 min version of this vid. It's your people in a nutshell. In the full video, a Chinese investigative reporter says Chinese feel a deep inferiority complex to whites, which is precisely why they incessantly rent white guys.

Being in the mere presence of a white guy makes them feel "classy", successful, important.

It's pathetic and disturbing if you as me: A true social and cultural neurosis.

Could we both at least agree: It's not normal. No?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

A Vietnamese girl who claims herself to be a North Chinese grown up in Vietnam.

@Yorozuya, this is the dreaming phenotype that @Viet and @VALKRYIE are going to represent for all Vietnamese girls.

 

[Pangu]

 

[Tesla85]

A Vietnamese girl who claims herself to be a North Chinese grown up in Vietnam.

@Yorozuya, this is the dreaming phenotype that @Viet and @VALKRYIE are going to represent for all Vietnamese girls.

And would you prefer they rent white guys instead?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And would you prefer they rent white guys instead?

The interracial romance is overstated my friend, don't take it too seriously.

Most people always prefer to stick with their own race.

 

[Tesla85]

Other Vietnamese, Chinese and other Asian members use account name with foreign words too, do they all make you feel leery too? My screen name is foreign instead of Vietnamese, do you know the reason why I used it or it doesnt matter because as long as its foreign it should make you feel leery? Your screen name “Tesla”, for whatever reason you are using it, is still foreign so does that make you feel leery about yourself too?

Leery about myself? Not at all. You missed the point. I said Asians appropriating (using/adopting/borrowing) the cultural "identity" of another Asian ethnic group.

I was born and raised in the West. I'm more at home with Western culture than I am with Vietnamese culture. Now if you or I grew up in Japan, then that would be okay for us to borrow from Japan--an East Asian country. I don't know of any Vietnamese who appropriates Japanese culture here in the West.

From my view, the bottom line is this, you got caught for making a projection, making a wrong assumption about me (that I am Chinese). And instead of just admitting that you were wrong and move on, you are now trying to drag this on and justify yourself by talking how leery my name sound, etc. just so that you don’t need admit that you were wrong. This is actually a common trait in this forum.

Please kindly inform me of what I'm caught projecting? It was nothing more than an innocent mistake.

By this standard, then talking about being hated by Chinese for your supposedly anti-Chinese posts assumes I've read such posts => You're projecting. AGAIN. LOL (see P.S. below)

I've never seen any of your posts outside of this thread. I'm new here. LOL

P.S. Your definition of projection is trivial. I wouldn't call me mistaking you for a Chinese nationalist projecting, nor would I call you assuming I've read your supposedly anti-Chinese post projection either.

-----------------------------------------

Alright let me spell it out:

1. In this thread, you do post remarkably like a Chinese nationalist.
2. Your open hostility to forum member "Viet" demonstrates your "debate" with him is more trolling than anything else.

And finally, the real evidence...

3. You're Vietnamese but culturally appropriate from Japanese culture, i.e. your user name, "Yorozuya". Japanese are East Asian, no? Currently the most successful East Asians too boot. No?

4. Southern Vietnamese would naturally find your "Khmer and Cham statements" highly offensive, not to mention Khmers and Chams...

He is a southern Vietnamese, so the funny thing is that chances are, he could be carrying some Khmer genes.

and...

Or he could have Cham genes, it doesnt matter. Just the fact that there is a chance that he could be carrying some Khmer genes would make him uncomfortable.

--------------

What projection are you talking about?

3 + 4 = Projection

P.P.S. From my observations, East-Asian-wannabe Viets tend to look East Asian. Naturally, they make disparaging/delustional (self-delusional) remarks on Khmers and Chams.

Like I said:

Projection is more often than not subconscious. The guilty party generally goes out of his way to not see it, even when confronted. Especially when confronted.

And please don't try to insist that Southern Vietnamese, Khmers & Chams would not find your statements on them offensive. LOL.

I have no interest in such petty squabble and you can have the last words on it.

Sure.

--------------------------------------------

The interracial romance is overstated my friend, don't take it too seriously.

"romance"?

LOL. That's wishful thinking. Don't cha mean "worship"?

Most people always prefer to stick with their own race.

You need to watch the full 15 min version. It's rampant in all over China, for those who can afford it.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

LOL. That's wishful thinking. Don't cha mean "worship"?


You need to watch the full 15 min version. It's rampant in all over China, for those who can afford it.

In HK and Taiwan maybe, but not in the Mainland China.

The interracial dating is not that common in the Mainland China, and those tabloid news don't count.

Since you are Vietnamese-American, and don't confuse those Chinese-Americans with the Mainland Chinese.

P.P.S. From my observations, East-Asian-wannabe Viets tend to look East Asian. Naturally, they make disparaging/delustional (self-delusional) remarks on Khmers.

Let them be, dunno why you and @Yorozuya are easily getting infuriated when some Viet members wanna be the Northeast Asians?

 

[William Hung]

Leery about myself? Not at all. You missed the point. I said Asians appropriating (using/adopting/borrowing) the cultural "identity" of another Asian ethnic group.

I was born and raised in the West. I'm more at home with Western culture than I am with Vietnamese culture. Now if you or I grew up in Japan, then that would be okay for us to borrow from Japan--an East Asian country. I don't know of any Vietnamese who appropriates Japanese culture here in the West.


Please kindly inform me of what I'm caught projecting? It was nothing more than an innocent mistake.

By this standard, then talking about being hated by Chinese for your supposedly anti-Chinese posts assumes I've read such posts => You're projecting. AGAIN. LOL (see P.S. below)

I've never seen any of your posts outside of this thread. I'm new here. LOL

P.S. Your definition of projection is trivial. I wouldn't call me mistaking you for a Chinese nationalist projecting, nor would I call you assuming I've read your supposedly anti-Chinese post projection either.

-----------------------------------------

Alright let me spell it out:

1. In this thread, you do post remarkably like a Chinese nationalist.
2. Your open hostility to forum member "Viet" demonstrates your "debate" with him is more trolling than anything else.

And finally, the real evidence...

3. You're Vietnamese but culturally appropriate from Japanese culture, i.e. your user name, "Yorozuya". Japanese are East Asian, no? Currently the most successful East Asians too boot. No?

4. Southern Vietnamese would naturally find your "Khmer and Cham statements" highly offensive, not to mention Khmers and Chams...



and...



--------------

3 + 4 = Projection

P.P.S. From my observations, East-Asian-wannabe Viets tend to look East Asian. Naturally, they make disparaging/delustional (self-delusional) remarks on Khmers and Chams.

Like I said:


And please don't try to insist that Southern Vietnamese, Khmers & Chams would not find your statements on them offensive. LOL

Wow buddy you’re really petty aren’t you? Like I said, you’re willing to go such a great length with your odd reasoning just to avoid admitting that you were wrong (e.g. that you wrongly assumed that I was a Chinese and that you had misread my “Viet and his buddy” comment in post #47).

All you could have just said pages ago was “oh, so you’re not a Chinese and I have misread your words about ‘Viet and his buddy’, my bad.” and be done with it and move on.

Is that really hard to do? Now you are just desperately stringing together long adhoc theories just to justify yourself.

Anyway I have said I would give you the last words so I wont bother making any direct comments on it. However I would say this:

It might be a good idea for you to stop making further assumptions about me if you are not familiar with me, otherwise you would just continue to make a mockery out of yourself (like how you have assumed I was a Chinese and made that Hire a White Guy post just to try to offend me).

You are now trying to make a desperate inference on how I have disparaged and offended the Cham and Khmer. Most SEA members here would know that I am one of the most pro-SEA member here, always friendly with Filipino, Thai, Burmese, etc. and prefer to interact with them. I dont need to defend myself on this, SEA members can judge for themselves. You are only making a mockery out of yourself with those assumptions. Same thing with that desperate and dubious reasoning about that name thing. Very laughable reasoning if you had realised that my old screen name was in English, and I have previously asked Admin to changed it to a Vietnamese one, and before that even requested for the name “NiceGirl”. So your assumptions, from just reading a few of my posts, is laughable.

As for the “projection” that you have acussed me of doing, why are you using my newer posts to describe it? You accused me of making a “projection” in post #47, so shouldn’t you explain how I have made a projection in post #47 and further back? So what projection have I made back then? Ignoring the dubious premises and reasoning, the fact that you had to use my newer posts to string together some adhoc arguments shows that you are willing to go to great length just to avoid admitting that you were wrong and to justify yourself over trivial things. (although calling it an “innocent mistake” is a first step and a positive sign).

Look, I don’t know you, have nothing against you, and don’t care about those trivial things that you are draging on and on around here. Neither do I care about the topic that you are ethusiatic about: genes and IQ. I was only talking to another member in post #47 about a specific Viet individual (“Viet and his buddy”). You misread my post and made an elaborate reply thinking I was talking about the whole “Viets” population. So it all started from that post, and for the sake of justifying yourself over trivial issues, you are now dragging me into arguments that I don’t really understand nor do I care about. So you are welcomed to make further assumptions about me but consider this post as a friendly reminder that people who are familiar with me here will see that your assumptions is only making a mockery out of yourself. mmmkay?

 

[Tesla85]

@ JapaneseWanabe

"Wow buddy you’re really petty aren’t you?"

Projection.

Wow, what a long post.

I knew by your trolling of Viet this was not going to be your last post to me. LOL.

 

[Viet]

@Viet @Yorozuya enough of this, the constant fighting and accusations between both of you is childish the next step is bans for both . End this right now.

Dear Sir,

if you review my posts, and responses, it is not me who starts provocations. it is always the clown yoro who obviously scans and reads all of my posts, looking for errors. if found, he jumps in like a little retard, making accusations, blaming me I was this and that I did hu and ho. he twists my words to support his narrative. he is not interested of a debate, discussion or anything. he is a classical troller, and stalker. he comes to the forum just trolling people. he dislikes people if they don´t share his opinions. in contrast I have no problems at all if someone does not share my opinions. I hate bullshit. that´s all.

Nor am I racist. I just hate liars and bastards. no matter where he/she comes from: Vietnam or elsewhere. I can´t understand why the stalker yoro dislikes and hates me deeply.

I don´t know who he is, from where he comes. I really don´t care what he says and claims as long as he does not attack me without reasons. or he starts spewing lies and insults on Vietnam. I am pretty sure he isn´t vietnamese.

Nor do I care even if he runs naked, blowing up himself.

yes, it is bad for all and unhealthy development for this forum.

Can I ask you to prevent him from reading my posts? banning him to tag me?

Best Regards

Viet

@ JapaneseWanabe

"Wow buddy you’re really petty aren’t you?"

Projection.

Wow, what a long post.

I knew by your trolling of Viet this was not going to be your last post to me. LOL.

as I say this guy yoro is a stalker. take care.

 

[Tesla85]

Well Japanese do have a strong D2 haplotype that is common in Japanese males. The D2 is found in South Asians (Sri Lankans, Dravidians, Tamilians, et al). The theorists say that during the primordial epoch, the Aborigines of South Asia traversed through the Tibetal plateau, through Mongolia and into modern day Japan. They then contributed to the Jomon identity of pre-Yayoi Japan. The Yayois (Mongloid looking folks) came to Japan some 3000 years ago from the Chinese mainland (Zhejiang / Jiangsu region) and then had amalgamated and intermixed with the Jomon Japanese. Hence the reason why a Japanese male who may "look" East Asian, but actually has D2 haplotype that is common not in Northeast Asians, but is commonly found in South Asians.

It supports the human migration theory.

So , technically speaking, Japanese are closer to South Asians than say Southeast Asians or Austronesians.

1. NatGeo says Japanese = 75% NEA + 25% SEA,

2. The land migration route to Japan by cariers of D2 must have taken thousands of years. They would have effectively not be South Asians by the time they got to Japan.

3. Is D2 found in SEA? other non-Japanese NEA? The reason why I say this is because the Red River delta in northern Vietnam was continously inhabited for probably 20,000 years. But about 4,000 years ago, there was a total demographic shift. The original inhabitants of what is now Northern Vietnam were Australo-Melanesians, But they died out. Modern Vietnamese are the descendants of the NEA newcomers who displaced the original inhabitants. These new comers either mixed with the locals or mixed with other SEA nearby. Modern Vietnamese have SEA maternal ancestry. The point is, populations die out. In human migration theories, groups that splinter off often settle for some time (decades, centuries, millennia), then from time to time some move on while the others stay back. Some times the ones who stay back die out for some reason or other: War, disease, famine, etc, or they just move on too and settle somewhere else or die out during the migration.

So just because no one has D2, for sake of argument, and geographically speaking, outside of South Asian and Japan, doesn't mean Japanese "are closer to South Asians than say Southeast Asians or Austronesians". (BTW, this is the inherent problem with linguistic, demic diffusion, etc., type theories which rely on "center-of-gravity" assumptions.)

4. Vietnam still may have some very small pockets of Australo-Melanesian tribes within in its borders. Perhaps Vietnamese can confirm.

 

[William Hung]

@ JapaneseWanabe

"Wow buddy you’re really petty aren’t you?"

Projection.

Wow, what a long post.

I knew by your trolling of Viet this was not going to be your last post to me. LOL.

So I thought you would become a mature and rational Viet member here.

Now you have ended up this way just because of your wrong assumption that I am a Chinese nationalist, and your refusal to admit that you had made that mistake.

Dear Sir,

if you review my posts, and responses, it is not me who starts provocations. it is always the clown yoro who obviously scans and reads all of my posts, looking for errors. if found, he jumps in like a little retard, making accusations, blaming me I was this and that I did hu and ho. he twists my words to support his narrative. he is not interested of a debate, discussion or anything. he is a classical troller, and stalker. he comes to the forum just trolling people. he dislikes a share his opinions. in contrast I have no problems at all if someone does not share my opinions. I hate bullshit. that´s all.

Nor am I racist. I just hate liars and bastards. no matter where he/she comes from: Vietnam or elsewhere. I can´t understand why the stalker yoro dislikes and hates me deeply.

I don´t know who he is, from where he comes. I really don´t care what he says and claims as long as he does not attack me without reasons. or he starts spewing lies and insults on Vietnam. I am pretty sure he isn´t vietnamese.

Nor do I care even if he runs naked, blowing up himself.

yes, it is bad for all and unhealthy development for this forum.

Can I ask you to prevent him from reading my posts? banning him to tag me?

Best Regards

Viet

Read from post #28 again, that was my first reply to you in this thread, where I had made a legitimate challenge to your misleading interpretation of an article. If you read from that post onwards, it is clear to see who losted his temper and started to use profanity and childish cussing. The posts are still all there for everyone to read and see, including you.

And I reiterate, if you make false and misleading claims, like how you’ve claimed that the ancestor of the Kinh were Han Chinese from Taiwan, then I have the right to challenge it.

 

[Tesla85]

as I say this guy yoro is a stalker. take care.

To be honest, I don't know your history with Yoro outside of this thread. I'm really new here.

I just know he has a Japanese user handle and has made disparaging remarks on Southern Vietnamese, Khmers and Chams, which he thinks is flying under the radar.

1. A Vietnamese with a Japanese user name is not too much in and of itself. Just a little queer.
2. The disparaging remarks on nearly half of all Vietnamese worldwide and all Khmers and Chams is a GIANT RED FLAG.
3. Combining points 1 and 2, then means 1 is another GIANT RED FLAG.

So he was projecting the whole time. And he keeps denying it. LOL

PS. Then he calls me "petty" for pointing it out. LOL