Anti-Turkism, also known as Turcophobia

[AlpErTunga]

Ottoman was Islamic not Turkish nationalist anyway.

There were not any "national" state with perception of today during that period of history, we mentioned, a different explanation will be anachronical mistake sir. If we would assume all Ottoman people as "Turks" and view their culture behind nationalist glasses; we would make a logical mistake ofcourse. But on the other hand, we have to see the Turkish identity of the state while we are talking about it.

According to your point of view; no nation had an imperial state before 18th century. But they had; and one of them was Ottoman Empire of the Turks. Ottoman Empire was founded and ruled by the same Turkish dynasty during her full life. In addition; it is true that Europe call all Muslim people as "the Turks" sometimes and "the Arabs" othertimes. This is the result of their generalization understanding like "we and others", "whites and blacks", "True Romans, Romans and barbarians". And all confusion about this topic is the result of that we made our history and they wrote almost all of it, I think. They named our past and we read it, unfortunately.

 

[Doritos11]

There were not any "national" state with perception of today during that period of history, we mentioned, a different explanation will be anachronical mistake sir. If we would assume all Ottoman people as "Turks" and view their culture behind nationalist glasses; we would make a logical mistake ofcourse. But on the other hand, we have to see the Turkish identity of the state while we are talking about it.

According to your point of view; no nation had an imperial state before 18th century. But they had; and one of them was Ottoman Empire of the Turks. Ottoman Empire founded and ruled by the same Turkish dynasty during her full life. In addition; it is true that Europe call all Muslim people as "the Turks" sometimes and "the Arabs" othertimes. This is the result of their generalization understanding like "we and others", "whites and blacks", "True Romans, Romans and barbarians". And all confusion about this topic is the result of that we made our history and they wrote almost all of it, I think. They named our past and we read it, unfortunately.

Ottoman empire could not survive if all Muslims would have refused it, something the nationalists here do not understand. It was an Islamic caliphate, todays Turkey being the center yes, just like we can rant all day about the Abbasid caliphate which has much more "greatness" than the Ottoman empire but that’s not the way I do things.

The Ottoman empire isn’t a Turkish empire, you can add a nationalist identity to an Islamic caliphate if you want, others will not accept it just as we aren’t going to place a nationalist claim on the Abbasid as our empire, or Saudis Rashidun, & Syrians Ummayad as theirs or as many Iranians do, claim the inventions of the golden Islamic age as Iranian inventions.

Or Kurds claiming the Salahdin conquests who's army wasn’t even completely Kurdish neither nationalist.

we have to see the Turkish identity of the state while we are talking about it.

Yes, agreed, but to see it as a Turkish empire, that’s not the case.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

turks were colonial rulers, obviously those you were ruling will hate you.

I havent read the opening article yet; but i am sure that will drag my attention; but @El turco could you please post the links of the sources in your opening post?

The ottoman empire was not a colonial ruler; you are confusing it with BUTTERFLIES AND BEES

MOD EDIT: Please don't go off-topic.

 

[AlpErTunga]

Ottoman empire could not survive if all Muslims would have refused it, something the nationalists here do not understand.

And if your aunt had mustache you would call her "uncle". It is a sarcastic proverb, sorry. You cannot mention "if"s in a historical arguement. It is another principle of history science.

If we all Muslims jump right now, maybe we can change the axis of the earth? What do you think?

It was an Islamic caliphate, todays Turkey being the center yes, just like we can rant all day about the Abbasid caliphate which has much more "greatness" than the Ottoman empire but that’s not the way I do things.

The center of the Ottoman Empire was Balkans all time. And the policy of imperialisation was creating Turkish settlements. Are you talking about Abbasid which puts junks in our religion we couldn't clear for centuries yet? Yes this is great greatnesss.

The Ottoman empire isn’t a Turkish empire, you can add a nationalist identity to an Islamic caliphate if you want, others will not accept it just as we aren’t going to place a nationalist claim on the Abbasid as our empire, or Saudis Rashidun, & Syrians Ummayad as theirs or as many Iranians do, claim the inventions of the golden Islamic age as Iranian inventions.

Do you manage to talk to Kanuni Sultan Suleyman or Yavuz Sultan Selim, sometimes? Yo should visit a doctor sir. And you are talking about Ottoman provinces, I think... Syria, Saudi etc..

Or Kurds claiming the Salahdin conquests who's army wasn’t even completely Kurdish neither nationalist.

Kurdish identity of Selahaddin is just a claim for now. If someone can manage to prove it, we can discuss it later.

Yes, agreed, but to see it as a Turkish empire, that’s not the case.

Do you have any other permission about history facts?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Ottoman empire could not survive if all Muslims would have refused it, something the nationalists here do not understand. It was an Islamic caliphate, todays Turkey being the center yes, just like we can rant all day about the Abbasid caliphate which has much more "greatness" than the Ottoman empire but that’s not the way I do things.

The Ottoman empire isn’t a Turkish empire, you can add a nationalist identity to an Islamic caliphate if you want, others will not accept it just as we aren’t going to place a nationalist claim on the Abbasid as our empire, or Saudis Rashidun, & Syrians Ummayad as theirs or as many Iranians do, claim the inventions of the golden Islamic age as Iranian inventions.

Or Kurds claiming the Salahdin conquests who's army wasn’t even completely Kurdish neither nationalist.


Yes, agreed, but to see it as a Turkish empire, that’s not the case.

You have to understand that Ottoman was an Empire; you should understand the meaning of empire; the rulers of that empire was of Turk origin; The army of it was mainly of Turks; The main land was of Turkic; just read some immigration policy of Ottoman empire when they conquered somewhere etc.

You could claim otherwise; but that will change nothing unless you come up with some proofs and evidences.

 

[AlpErTunga]

Right, no if then, as long as people understand it was an Islamic empire ( with Turkish identity to make you all happy ).

Happiness is yours as long as you can afford the nobility of sharing it. But please, don't stretch the debate since you are far away from this nobility while you have a "Lawrence betrayal" on your history. Which muslims are you talking about? Are you talking about muslims who shot the Mehmeds in Sina desert with British army shoulder by shoulder, against your "caliph"? Ottoman Empire was Turk and you declared your independence from this Turkish Empire. Otherwise did you declared your independence from ISLAM?

Historians call it the golden age of Islam so challenge them instead of me.

Your historians should have never seen any gold or age or Islam...

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Islamic empire led by Turks, agree ?
Than we have the same opinion.

Ottoman empire was established in 1299, the first ottoman caliphet was Yavuz sultan Selim in 29 Agust 1516.

But still that does not make it an Islamic empire completely. If you claim Ottoman empire was a theocratic empire, i could raise my objections at some points.

 

[rmi5]

Why does an intelligent iranian like @Surenas hate and insult the Turks, is it because the past Turk rule over Iran or does she belong to armenian minority from Iran?

And what about iraqi @Doritos11 is it because Ottomans ruled the Iraq or pan-arabism or something else?

Actually he is a kurd, and he hates turkish and azeri people, and he said some really weird BS:

Like I said. You should start reading works of historians. Azerbaijanis and Turks are notorious for stealing lands, achievements and inventions of other people. That is because they entered the region as slave soldiers, only to be educated in the ancient civilizations of the region. That is why Turks, who have come from Mongolia, are suddenly claiming polo (Chogan) and Armenian lands.

Whole Eastern Turkey belongs to historical Armenia. Even Kurds were a minority in these places long time ago. But I'll guess Turkish assimilation policy and ethnic genocide has put dirt in the eyes of people like you.

If any Turks would ever set one step on Karabakh I swear to God I will help the Armenians in defending their land.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Actually he is a kurd, and he hates turkish and azeri people, and he said some really weird BS:

I think There is still discussions about the identity of him; we should just wait the result.

btw, what is the difference between Azeri and Turk? They both come from the same ancestor( oguz Turks). Therefore the right call would be Azerbaijani Turk, or Kazak Turk, or Kırgız Turk etc.

----o----

As for that mullah,

the whole World does not take them serious, why should we start to take? The past has shown the face of them to us in many issues.

 

[rmi5]

I think There is still discussions about the identity of him; we should just wait the result.

btw, what is the difference between Azeri and Turk? They both come from the same ancestor( oguz Turks). Therefore the right call would be Azerbaijani Turk, or Kazak Turk, or Kırgız Turk etc.

----o----

As for that mullah,

the whole World does not take them serious, why should we start to take? The past has shown the face of them to us in many issues.

Actually, he has told me before that he is half kurdish. before him, there was an another kurdish Iranian member who was defending Armenia. Anyway, never mind it. I provided him some useful data, they were even from Armenian sources, and I proved Azerbaijan's rights, and when he saw that he cannot say any logical counter argument, he started to insult and troll.

 

[BronzePlaque]

At another thread our dear friend @Surenas was insulting @rmi5. She insulted our iranian azeri friend @rmi5 just because he have Turk origin, so I decided to do a little research about Turcophobia and found this on Wikipedia.

That @Surenas dude is compeletely a braindead fella...Never ever build up your arguments just to counter him...Not worth your precious time

 

[BronzePlaque]

Yes blame us for it, have your moment, you yourself are spitting on the other caliphates just because they weren’t Turkish ruled, criticizing the Abbasid era yet your unhappy with this what you call betrayal spare me crying.
You and I weren’t alive, if that’s what they wanted than that’s their choice.



I’m speaking about neutral western historians of today, not mine whatever mine should be, also please elaborate about it, write a book, prove them wrong if you know something the rest of us don’t know.

I like you better when you make jokes and make us laugh...I dont like that "all serious Doritos11"

 

[Targon]

Ottoman Empire(after the early period I mentioned) was pretty much a third Roman empire in comparison of the way they followed, religion was a secondary aspect in state, even the Caliphate was just symbolic, they barely used the title, in fact they times to times criticized by other muslims because they not only tolerated non-muslims but also effectively used them in their state structure.

 

[Neptune]

I think I particullarly agree with @hinduguy here. We were not exactly colonial rulers but it was sth close to it. It's not much different than why Africans hate the French. There's over 51 independent nations today where Ottoman Empire had her sayings. It's normal to have Anti-Turkism opinion waves. I think the purpose of the thread was to complain about the recently increasing Anti-Turkism in the forum. Well, don't bother your time to quote them. I'll handle it

(told you fellas that it was goin to be a troll fest )

 

[ELTurco]

I havent read the opening article yet; but i am sure that will drag my attention; but @El turco could you please post the links of the sources in your opening post?

The ottoman empire was not a colonial ruler; you are confusing it with BUTTERFLIES AND BEES

MOD EDIT: Please don't go off-topic.

Anti-Turkism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia