Anti Maoist Squadron are being trained by Israeli now

[Ticker]

in Punjabi they say, phukkay ne phukkay di layee, dono theh payee

The Americans used to praise the Israelis before they went in Iraq and Afghanistan. After they have fought in these two places they now say that Israelis are not as good as we used to think. Infact some Americans completely denigrate and laugh at them.

Israelis are past masters in fighting against either unarmed people or those who are almost unarmed. In this respect what are they gonna teach the Indians.

The Indians are much better in killing their own unarmed or almost unarmed rag-tag armed groups in India. These are over 140 and the largest number in any one country though. The reasons may at times be same or different at times with respect to the Israeli environment.

The Indians though are very good and for such a warfare, have much better techniques. I personally think that it is Indians who are teaching the Israelis and not the other way around.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Yeah but judging by the Mumbai performance and their equipment, its highly questionable. The vid's do nothing to change my opinion mate. No offence. If you took a careful look, the vid shows the training is specifically geared towards urban warfare which is a key weakness we have. The question that arises in my mind, is that the US identified Urban warfare as a priority since the days of Somalia, yet India never took any proactive measures to incorporate training to keep up with the changing warfare scenarios. This bothers me as we don;t have the right caliber of ppl running the show. Our security forces is not keeping up with the change. It seems there is a gap with adapting and evolving our forces. I;m not sure where the fault lies but blaming the politics is a moot point as generals should go the VK Singh route to highlight issues that need to brought to the limelight.

Firstly, the Mumbai incident was a failure not because of the training but because of the logistics.

Had NSG been present in Mumbai the situation wont have taken this long to get over with.Now this has been changed by having NSG units all around the country plus them having aircrafts whenever they require.

Secondly,talking of Urban Warfare..I think the forces only take a decision when they face that situation.We didnt face urban combat situation till recently.Most of our operations are in mountainous or jungle terrain and that is why the Western Armies were better than us in Urban Combat while the same cannot be said for Mountainous and Jungle warfare.

How could Israel criticise them for 26/11, when they (force one) didn't exist at that time? The israelis were criticising the NSG.

Israelis criticsed Mumbai Police guys or the Force 1 recruits who went to them for training and their comments were like "these guys dont even know to run and fire"...These guys lacked basic training also and thatswhy i said had they undertaken training under NSG or Marcos atleast the criticism part could have been avoided.

And whats the benefit afterall??...Delhi Police SWAT are trained by NSG and they are as lethal as force 1 if not better.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

in Punjabi they say, phukkay ne phukkay di layee, dono theh payee

The Americans used to praise the Israelis before they went in Iraq and Afghanistan. After they have fought in these two places they now say that Israelis are not as good as we used to think. Infact some Americans completely denigrate and laugh at them.

Israelis are past masters in fighting against either unarmed people or those who are almost unarmed. In this respect what are they gonna teach the Indians.

The Indians are much better in killing their own unarmed or almost unarmed rag-tag armed groups in India. These are over 140 and the largest number in any one country though. The reasons may at times be same or different at times with respect to the Israeli environment.

The Indians though are very good and for such a warfare, have much better techniques. I personally think that it is Indians who are teaching the Israelis and not the other way around.

Well your Past Master Single Handily defeated Many Arab countries in war, Many terrorist group fear of Israel , fight behind civilians or live under civilians, So called Lebanon tight never came out from his cave from last many years fear of getting killed.

Thats why we able to stop terrorist crossing form Pak.

 

[Sergi]

@Coldhearted aviator: dude those force one guies were fresh recruits from training Acadamy. Acadamy train them 8/10 months. They see weapons only after first 4 months. So these guies were freshers. Now situation has been changed. I heard from a police officer that few retired Russian commandos are hired by govt. of Maharashtra to train the recruits for jungle warfare which is causing 10% drop out from acadamy. Can't confirm though
I don't know about Delhi police SWAT training but have seen "FORCE ONE" in mock drill. These guies are good.
BTW if any 26/11 like incident happen again then the guies taking over will be Force one and not NSG. This is the waist of Man power and resources. Force One should be relocated to another city so more ground can be covered.

 

[karan.1970]

Well your Past Master Single Handily defeated Many Arab countries in war, Many terrorist group fear of Israel , fight behind civilians or live under civilians, So called Lebanon tight never came out from his cave from last many years fear of getting killed.

Thats why we able to stop terrorist crossing form Pak.

Israel operates with a single minded goal.. If You come after our civilians, then its just not you we will come after but also your families.. That deterrent is more effective than even a nuclear one. I sometimes wish our politicians had the stomach for such strong stands..

 

[kurup]

Yeah Yeah .......

If aunty had balls she would have been an uncle

That phenomenon exist only in pakistan ................

 

[Abingdonboy]

Guys, guys,guys-CHILL!



This is a vid of Force One of Maharsta police being trained by Isreali border guards. Hence this is NOTHING to do with SOFs- from either nations purely a law enforcement-law enforcement program. It could be argued Indian units like NSG or military SOFs like IA SF/MARCOs /GARUDS could've done the training and I'd say that is true but, like with the raising of F1 the decision was political. Hence getting in Israelis seems to have been a political PR campaign and, more than likely, the Israeli government probably offered such assistance in the aftermath of 26/11 where some of their own were killed.

Also now that the initial F1 batch has been trained and the force has been raised it means that training can be done in-house and because of the NSG Mumbai hub there is bound to be a huge amount of joint training conducted by F1 and NSG.


Those saying the Israelis criticised, this is true but it is fair- Israeli border guards are very well trained guys and the fact is the F1 unit was a shambles when they first arrived as they had had little to no tactical training at that point. At the end of the video the Israelis are actually saying haw far the F1 guys have come and how professional they now are and that they would have no problems going into combat with any of the F1 guys now. You can see that the Israelis have a lot of good feelings for the F1 guys at the end of the vid.


Israelis are true freinds of India with common values and beliefs we should be grateful that the Israelis helped out like this- it is not an oppurtunity many nations get or are offered.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Had asked and Israeli member Ptex to provided a summary of the vid some time back, here is what he said- courtesy Ptex

I just watched it and it was quite interesting. Here's a summary:
When they first arrived, they saw that the unit was in a bad shape. The warfare tactics and weapon tactics that were so obvious to Israelis, were not obvious for the Force-1 unit. They started teaching them, and slowly but surely, they have begun to excel. Israeli instructors also told them about what it means in Israel when one team is like a brotherhood and that to be proud of being in such an elite force. They've formed a bond with each other, because that is what they teach Israelis that brotherhood is of utmost importance in combat units. And when they finished, the instructors said that they felt like they were in the Israeli unit now, with advanced skills and communications. The Israelis said that Force-1 was now an Elite Unit

(thanks Ptex)

 

[SamantK]

Had asked and Israeli member Ptex to provided a summary of the vid some time back, here is what he said- courtesy Ptex

(thanks Ptex)

Thanks buddy,

The vid was greek and latin to me and somehow members discussing the content left me speechless...

Good work, but they should have been trained a little so that a more advanced training would have been provided..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Thanks buddy,

The vid was greek and latin to me and somehow members discussing the content left me speechless...

Good work, but they should have been trained a little so that a more advanced training would have been provided..

No problem, I think the F1 guys had to be trained right from basics but were trained in more advanced stuff like HR and assualts as we can see.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

@Coldhearted aviator: dude those force one guies were fresh recruits from training Acadamy. Acadamy train them 8/10 months. They see weapons only after first 4 months. So these guies were freshers. Now situation has been changed. I heard from a police officer that few retired Russian commandos are hired by govt. of Maharashtra to train the recruits for jungle warfare which is causing 10% drop out from acadamy. Can't confirm though
I don't know about Delhi police SWAT training but have seen "FORCE ONE" in mock drill. These guies are good.
BTW if any 26/11 like incident happen again then the guies taking over will be Force one and not NSG. This is the waist of Man power and resources. Force One should be relocated to another city so more ground can be covered.

That shows how pathetic decisions Mumbai police takes....sending recruits who dont even know to handle a weapon for advanced training.

And sorry you are mistaken here...The thing is Force 1 will go first but will eventually end up forming the outer cordon..nothing else...Only NSG will handle the inner operation...There is a HUGE difference between NSG and Force 1 even after Israeli/Russian training.

NSG guys are Army guys who have "been there done that" in military operations from North East to Kashmir...The training facilities in Manesar is "incomparable" to what Force 1 would have...The experience,The stratergy,The weapons etc is simply incomparable to any other Police unit in India.

Guys, guys,guys-CHILL!



This is a vid of Force One of Maharsta police being trained by Isreali border guards. Hence this is NOTHING to do with SOFs- from either nations purely a law enforcement-law enforcement program. It could be argued Indian units like NSG or military SOFs like IA SF/MARCOs /GARUDS could've done the training and I'd say that is true but, like with the raising of F1 the decision was political. Hence getting in Israelis seems to have been a political PR campaign and, more than likely, the Israeli government probably offered such assistance in the aftermath of 26/11 where some of their own were killed.

Also now that the initial F1 batch has been trained and the force has been raised it means that training can be done in-house and because of the NSG Mumbai hub there is bound to be a huge amount of joint training conducted by F1 and NSG.


Those saying the Israelis criticised, this is true but it is fair- Israeli border guards are very well trained guys and the fact is the F1 unit was a shambles when they first arrived as they had had little to no tactical training at that point. At the end of the video the Israelis are actually saying haw far the F1 guys have come and how professional they now are and that they would have no problems going into combat with any of the F1 guys now. You can see that the Israelis have a lot of good feelings for the F1 guys at the end of the vid.


Israelis are true freinds of India with common values and beliefs we should be grateful that the Israelis helped out like this- it is not an oppurtunity many nations get or are offered.

Its not the fault of Israelis..Its the fault of Mumbai Police sending beginners for advanced training...They could have sent these Police guys for 3 months training under NSG where they would have learnt a lot and then it would have made sense training under Israeli Border Guards...atleast would have avoided the embaressment.

....By the way its not their fault...I bet not many Mumbai Police guys would even know what NSG/Marcos/Garuds are before 26/11

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^I don't see too much embarrassment. The Israelis guys seem like good,decent genuine men who understand the F1's shortcomings and try to address them. Watch the end of the video where the Israeli officer in charge of the training is beaming from ear to ear about the F1 guys and giving them bear hugs, he seems to feel very comfortable with them and this means he is very comfortable in their abilities.

So what if the F1 guys were rough around the edges intially? Let's not forget that the unit must have been scrambled together post-26/11 so there was bound to be short-comings.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

^^I don't see too much embarrassment. The Israelis guys seem like good,decent genuine men who understand the F1's shortcomings and try to address them. Watch the end of the video where the Israeli officer in charge of the training is beaming from ear to ear about the F1 guys and giving them bear hugs, he seems to feel very comfortable with them and this means he is very comfortable in their abilities.

So what if the F1 guys were rough around the edges intially? Let's not forget that the unit must have been scrambled together post-26/11 so there was bound to be short-comings.

The Israeli media criticised Indian Forces for 26/11..after that these recruits ask for Israeli help and get criticised....Connect the two situations and you will get my perspective....

Our Security forces are capable of handling any threat...Whatever these guys learnt could have been taught to them in India without any foreign help...Without getting criticised...

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Israeli media criticised Indian Forces for 26/11..after that these recruits ask for Israeli help and get criticised....Connect the two situations and you will get my perspective....

Our Security forces are capable of handling any threat...Whatever these guys learnt could have been taught to them in India without any foreign help...Without getting criticised...

Indian reponse to 26/11 was always going to be criticsed by Israelis as some of their own were killed. Beyond that much of the foreing media also criticsed the response and I think that is fair. When I talk of response I mean the security forces taking out the effers and ending the crisis. Once NSG were on the scene it was over pretty quickly but for the first 10 or so hours when NSG was not on site there was little to no couter-attacks by local forces to try an end the crisis or atleast contain it.The MARCOs did do something but with only around 16 operators their effectivness was severly diminished and much of their efforts went into containment not assualt-they simply didn't have the manpower at the time and much of the 16 guys were caught up in EOD duties assiting Mumbai bomd squad.


The Border guards' criticism of the F1 recruits is completely fair, any proffesional guy from an elite unit would have had similar criticsm including Indian units. And so what if the Israelis criticised the F1 guys at the start? In the end the F1 was a solid unit and the Israelis were happy with them. At the time descion makers weren't thinking all that sensibly but tbf they made a good descion to have Israelis train F1. Not doing somthing because you are afraid you may be criticised for doing it is not a reason to not do anything (if that makes any sense).

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Indian reponse to 26/11 was always going to be criticsed by Israelis as some of their own were killed. Beyond that much of the foreing media also criticsed the response and I think that is fair. When I talk of response I mean the security forces taking out the effers and ending the crisis. Once NSG were on the scene it was over pretty quickly but for the first 10 or so hours when NSG was not on site there was little to no couter-attacks by local forces to try an end the crisis or atleast contain it.The MARCOs did do something but with only around 16 operators their effectivness was severly diminished and much of their efforts went into containment not assualt-they simply didn't have the manpower at the time and much of the 16 guys were caught up in EOD duties assiting Mumbai bomd squad.


The Border guards' criticism of the F1 recruits is completely fair, any proffesional guy from an elite unit would have had similar criticsm including Indian units. And so what if the Israelis criticised the F1 guys at the start? In the end the F1 was a solid unit and the Israelis were happy with them. At the time descion makers weren't thinking all that sensibly but tbf they made a good descion to have Israelis train F1. Not doing somthing because you are afraid you may be criticised for doing it is not a reason to not do anything (if that makes any sense).

For the 3rd time let me repeat it again.....

What was the need to send recruits for advanced training...Why not send them first to NSG base in Manesar and then ask Israeli's to help..Would have made much more sense and avoided the embaressment.