Anti-Koondakulum stir 'sponsored' from outside, alleges Russia

[satish]

My friend, it is not the duty of the govt to provide utility services to the people. The purpose of the govt is to protect the right of the people to life,freedom of speech, right to the property that each individual own and right to pursue happiness. The govt has a duty to provide national defense, conduct foreign policy as a representative of people of India and to enforce law of the land(i.e, constitution and judicial system).

Any green energy that you are suggesting must come from the market place, the govt should not subsidize the green energy neither it should invest in R&D. The green energy or any kind of energy should emerge from market place.

As far environmental protection is concerned, the environment should be protected by property rights and not by creating laws. What the environment ministry does is it permits private companies to pollute the environment in a certain way and the victims cannot even go to the court. The environment ministry also creates bars for new entry companies into the market by excessive regulation and protect big companies from competition.

I'm skeptical about this global warming, cause this thing is mainly used in western countries to get govt funding for R&D a sort of white collar crime.

There were threads in the past on this site about this matter. I posted so many pages it was ridiculous. Most of the time, folks just replied to the thread with an attitude of development over anything and everything. They did not want to hear the ground realities. Look at what other more devleped nations are doing and follow their lead. In fact, they are willing to help. Look at how china plans to incorporate 40% towards green energy. Why can't we do the same? Our ancestors had more respect for our land and here we are destroying it. All these yrs, we never even eastablished an EPA for the environment. We allow ships that are so toxic to be destoyed on our shores with no regard to the toxic pollutants. Other nations wont allow such ships to be destroyed on their land without extensive safety guards in place. And you expect our govt to adhere to what standards exactly? Wake the bloody hell up. Sufficient compensation according to who exactly? Living off the land forever versus a few lakh does what exactly?


If you want the truth, dig up the old thread where I posted numerous information on the truth. I understand India needs energy but you got to do it in a safe manner. BARC has issues with safety. Its just that such incidents have been sealed from public.



We dont saefty protocols in place for evacutaion. We don;t have suppies of Iodine and other tablets for nuclear radiaiton for the local population. We don;t have practice drills for safety. Come on ...I can make a list so long. Like someone stated look at the macro picture that includes safety. You idiots can't see past your nose when we need true visionaries to see the potential ramifications yrs and decades ahead






Sure ther are many reasons but how about we focus on all the core issues.

 

[axisofevil]

My friend, it is not the duty of the govt to provide utility services to the people. The purpose of the govt is to protect the right of the people to life,freedom of speech, right to the property that each individual own and right to pursue happiness. The govt has a duty to provide national defense, conduct foreign policy as a representative of people of India and to enforce law of the land(i.e, constitution and judicial system).

Any green energy that you are suggesting must come from the market place, the govt should not subsidize the green energy neither it should invest in R&D. The green energy or any kind of energy should emerge from market place.

As far environmental protection is concerned, the environment should be protected by property rights and not by creating laws. What the environment ministry does is it permits private companies to pollute the environment in a certain way and the victims cannot even go to the court. The environment ministry also creates bars for new entry companies into the market by excessive regulation and protect big companies from competition.

I'm skeptical about this global warming, cause this thing is mainly used in western countries to get govt funding for R&D a sort of white collar crime.

I agree Satish. I think what you stated in the previous post made sense. if the govt took care of public safety, our environmental laws, etc. then free entreprise would flourish with little issues. As for global warming, its true. The pl most against this are corporations not gov;t. In the US, the biggest funding tocast doubt on global warming is from the Republicans. The same party associated with extreme christian views and corporations.

 

[axisofevil]

Again, not a isngle person can state the safety measures I have stated are in place. Why? Because they are not in place

 

[KS]

Yeah a blog is quite credible. If these aleegations were true, then they would have been convicted.

Thats the reason why the accounts of those leading the protests were frozen for violating FCRA regulations. They were not arrested because they were exercising their right to protest even though they are protesting based on spurious reasons.

Dont look at the blog, look the figures quoted directly from the FCRA website maintained by the Home Ministry. The blog just

Politicans are using religion to divide us up again and dummies are falling for it.

The only dummies here are the poor fisherfolk who fell for the nefarious designs of the church are being used by these vested elements for their nefarious designs. Lets face it, Kudankulam is not the first village that is nearby a nuclear plant. There are functioning nuclear plants near two of the metros in India - BARC in Mumbai and Kalpakkam in Chennai..And those people are doing pretty fine. And that is with old generation nuke plants. The VVER-1000 being built in Kudanluma are some of the most modern, safest reactors in use today.

But what does a political scientist with masters in literature know about nuclear energy and reactor designs ?

Again, not a isngle person can state the safety measures I have stated are in place. Why? Because they are not in place

http://www.dae.gov.in/nic/knpp3.pdf

This is the report of DAE on the timeline of the protests, their demands and points, how they are addressed and how KNPP is as safe as safe can be.

http://www.barc.gov.in/egreport.pdf

And this is the detailed report by BARC on the design of the reactor and the various safety measures that are undertaken.

 

[KS]

If people can read Tamil they would amazed at the magnitude of conspiracy theories and lies that are being peddled in local Tamil magazines like Kumudham, Junior Vikadan etc.

BTW you can reason with protestors and convince them with scientific studies if they are knowledgeable with the procedures themselves. But in this case it is being led by bishops, cardinals ,political scientists and vested interests with no exposure or knowledge about these things , but those who are protesting because they were told to do so. How can you convince them that their points and demands are wrong and not rooted in facts ? Impossible. It is like trying to convince an evangelist that creationism is wrong and the age of earth is not 6000 years.

 

[satish]

The govt should not run the nuclear power plants, and the liability must be with the private companies if anything goes wrong.

Again, not a isngle person can state the safety measures I have stated are in place. Why? Because they are not in place

 

[axisofevil]

Thats the reason why the accounts of those leading the protests were frozen for violating FCRA regulations. They were not arrested because they were exercising their right to protest even though they are protesting based on spurious reasons.

Dont look at the blog, look the figures quoted directly from the FCRA website maintained by the Home Ministry. The blog just




The only dummies here are the poor fisherfolk who fell for the nefarious designs of the church are being used by these vested elements for their nefarious designs. Lets face it, Kudankulam is not the first village that is nearby a nuclear plant. There are functioning nuclear plants near two of the metros in India - BARC in Mumbai and Kalpakkam in Chennai..And those people are doing pretty fine. And that is with old generation nuke plants. The VVER-1000 being built in Kudanluma are some of the most modern, safest reactors in use today.

But what does a political scientist with masters in literature know about nuclear energy and reactor designs ?



http://www.dae.gov.in/nic/knpp3.pdf

This is the report of DAE on the timeline of the protests, their demands and points, how they are addressed and how KNPP is as safe as safe can be.

http://www.barc.gov.in/egreport.pdf

And this is the detailed report by BARC on the design of the reactor and the various safety measures that are undertaken.

Who cares about religion. Why are making such an issue about it? We can pick on other religions and point out the flaws. Who cares. Anyway, being able to have access to resources and gather opinions is enough to make a credible decision. Presidents do this, so do gov;ts. Listen those other places you mentioned are safe for now. But if something were to happen, the safety measures in place are seriously lax. It easy to make ppl understand the facts if we want to them. Break it down and allow ppl to form their opinions based on facts.


KS, you gave some good info. But I ask you what about Potassium Iodide Tablets, emergency plans for the police and hospitals, public educationon what to do in an emergency situation, etc.? Plz read post 25. If the gov't could address those issues I brought up in that post, then you would not only make me and others believers but the gov't would gain credibility with the protestors.

The govt should not run the nuclear power plants, and the liability must be with the private companies if anything goes wrong.

Yeah but about safety

 

[ashokdeiva]

There are norms for setting up any plant in a area, one of the norm mandates that a voting be held in the area if the people are ok to go with the set project, and its the governments mandate to explain the pros and cons to the people living in that area about the project. But this mandate is only in papers not implemented.
Those who are voicing for setting up of N power plant have not understood that the government does not do any project for the wellfare of the people in its present condition. Setting a N power plant for 20,000 crores involve kick backs and that goes to the pockets of X, Y & Z who cares less for the country or for its people.
Are we in CHINA where the state owns every thing and inhumanly act against the will of the people who are not interested to have a N plant against their wish, if not. its better that the mandate be followed and if the voting is in favour of the plant then can the N plant be set, else its the Governments obligation to windup the N Plant.

 

[KS]

Who cares about religion. Why are making such an issue about it?

Because religious institutions is the core force that is driving this protest. Dont act like you dont know. Bishop Yvon Ambrose and his various NGOs are one of the main funding agencies. SP Uthayakumar hid in the Idinthakari church when the police came to arrest him. All the meetings take place inside church there. Even those who are protesting openly admit they are protesting because their "father" told them to do so and they themselves dont know personally the technicalities of the protest. Do you even know that nowadays the other religious people are not even taking part in the protest ?

We can pick on other religions and point out the flaws.

That would be offtopic since no other religious institution is organizing these protests.

But if something were to happen, the safety measures in place are seriously lax. It easy to make ppl understand the facts if we want to them. Break it down and alow ppl to form their opinions on facts.

No they are not. That is a bunkum spread by these vested interests with no scientific basis. The safety procesdures are in place as it needs to be at this state of plant operation.

The problem is people ready to listen but they dont have necessary qualifications to even understand what the scientists say and the leaders who are leading the protests are not ready to listen.

And the protest itself shits goalposts between the safety features of the plant and the morality and political aspect of nuclear energy as a whole by giving misleading examples like Germany.

KS, you gave some info. But I ask you what about Potassium Iodide Tablets, emergency plans for the police and hospitals, public educationon what to do in an emergency situation, etc.?

Dude the plant has not even gone critical. Why do you expect the govt to do all before the plant has gone even critical. They will be done in time. As I said Kudankulam is not the only village in the world or even in India to have a nuke plant. You dont need to look farther than Chennai to udnerstand this.

 

[cyphercide]

There are norms for setting up any plant in a area, one of the norm mandates that a voting be held in the area if the people are ok to go with the set project, and its the governments mandate to explain the pros and cons to the people living in that area about the project. But this mandate is only in papers not implemented.
Those who are voicing for setting up of N power plant have not understood that the government does not do any project for the wellfare of the people in its present condition. Setting a N power plant for 20,000 crores involve kick backs and that goes to the pockets of X, Y & Z who cares less for the country or for its people.
Are we in CHINA where the state owns every thing and inhumanly act against the will of the people who are not interested to have a N plant against their wish, if not. its better that the mandate be followed and if the voting is in favour of the plant then can the N plant be set, else its the Governments obligation to windup the N Plant.

I'm not too sure about your stand on mandates but your rationale is unassailable nonetheless.

 

[axisofevil]

Because religious institutions is the core force that is driving this protest. Dont act like you dont know. Bishop Yvon Ambrose and his various NGOs are one of the main funding agencies. SP Uthayakumar hid in the Idinthakari church when the police came to arrest him. All the meetings take place inside church there. Even those who are protesting openly admit they are protesting because their "father" told them to do so and they themselves dont know personally the technicalities of the protest. Do you even know that nowadays the other religious people are not even taking part in the protest ?




That would be offtopic since no other religious institution is organizing these protests.




No they are not. That is a bunkum spread by these vested interests with no scientific basis. The safety procesdures are in place as it needs to be at this state of plant operation.

The problem is people ready to listen but they dont have necessary qualifications to even understand what the scientists say and the leaders who are leading the protests are not ready to listen.

And the protest itself shits goalposts between the safety features of the plant and the morality and political aspect of nuclear energy as a whole by giving misleading examples like Germany.





Yeah but about safety

KS, you gave some info. But I ask you what about Potassium Iodide Tablets, emergency plans for the police and hospitals, public educationon what to do in an emergency situation, etc.?

[/QUOTE]



Read post 25. Are such security measures in place? You only talk about the nuclear plant. As for the church, I don;t see the reason why the Vatican would give a damn about nuclear energy. Do you? Just because someone who happens to be a priest tells you the pro's and the con;s, doesn;t make it a conspiracy. I think Miss Roy also supported these protestors, does that make her a part of the Vatican? As for the church, the priest names, etc. I have no clue. As for the protestors not coming to such protests anymore, I presume there is lot more police in force smacking ppl around. And they probably need to feed their families and work. That was the core problem. The govt in fact brought that up, stating how can they protest when they have to work. So times have changes, protesting these days is not the same when the Brits ruled India.

There are norms for setting up any plant in a area, one of the norm mandates that a voting be held in the area if the people are ok to go with the set project, and its the governments mandate to explain the pros and cons to the people living in that area about the project. But this mandate is only in papers not implemented.
Those who are voicing for setting up of N power plant have not understood that the government does not do any project for the wellfare of the people in its present condition. Setting a N power plant for 20,000 crores involve kick backs and that goes to the pockets of X, Y & Z who cares less for the country or for its people.
Are we in CHINA where the state owns every thing and inhumanly act against the will of the people who are not interested to have a N plant against their wish, if not. its better that the mandate be followed and if the voting is in favour of the plant then can the N plant be set, else its the Governments obligation to windup the N Plant.

Exactly. Some state, there was no oppostion given prior to building. Thats because there was no mandate. There were no facts given. People are getting smart, too smart for the govt. They cannot stream roll their policies anymore without listening to the ppl.

 

[KS]

There are norms for setting up any plant in a area, one of the norm mandates that a voting be held in the area if the people are ok to go with the set project, and its the governments mandate to explain the pros and cons to the people living in that area about the project. But this mandate is only in papers not implemented.

Govt has already tried many times to explain the safety procedures that are inbuilt and the contingency plans but the protestors are not ready to listen. Even the most repsected Kalam sir has tried to mediate. But apparently the bishops and political scientists know more about nuclear energy and reactor design than Dr.Kalam.

Those who are voicing for setting up of N power plant have not understood that the government does not do any project for the wellfare of the people in its present condition. Setting a N power plant for 20,000 crores involve kick backs and that goes to the pockets of X, Y & Z who cares less for the country or for its people.

Wrong. No one said there is no kickbacks involved. But take the example of Bofors..when it was bought huge kickbacks were involved..that did not mean they were falulty or under-standard. They performed brilliantly in Kargil and was the backbone of our victory there.

The VVER-1000 reactors that Russia is building is a 3+ generation reactor and is one of the most technologically advanced and safest in the world

http://www.npcil.nic.in/pdf/Insight_of_Safety_features_of_KKNPP.pdf

Advanced Designs of VVER Reactor Plant

Are we in CHINA where the state owns every thing and inhumanly act against the will of the people who are not interested to have a N plant against their wish, if not. its better that the mandate be followed and if the voting is in favour of the plant then can the N plant be set, else its the Governments obligation to windup the N Plant.

Wrong and wrong. If this had been china you would not even have heard of this protest and all those protestors would have been arrested and sent to some labor camps.

Voting is not possible because already 15000 crores have been spent and where were these dumbos when the plant was in construction for 20 years ?

 

[KS]

Read post 25. Are such security measures in place? You only talk about the nuclear plant.

You are repeating the same thing again and again.

I've already said that those procedures will be started once the plant goes operational. right now only the fuel is being loaded and all the safety measures that are needed to be in this phase are in place.

Plus I agree, that once the plant goes critical such measures should be in place to face any contingency.

As for the church, I don;t see the reason why the Vatican would give a damn about nuclear energy. Do you? Just because someone who happens to be a priest tells you the pro's and the con;s, doesn;t make it a conspiracy.

No, the word church does not mean Vatican alone. There are plenty of churches in US also. LIke the Baptists, Pentecostals etc. The church itself is a front for those governments to spread their political and economic agenda.

And what pros and cons they are telling ? Are they telling scientific truths about fission and fusion ? No they are misleading people and playing on the emotions and fears of these naive fisherfolk by showing pictures of Chernobyl, Fukushima etc and saying this is what will happen to them too if the KNPP goes critical. What they don't tell is Chernobyl and Fukushima were World war era nuclear technology that are no longer being used and that the VVER-1000 reactors are 3 plus gen reactors with advanced inbuilt safety features. They tell them that nuclear energy is against xtianity and the naive people buy into that.

If you would have read the Kumudham ,Ananda Vikatan, Junior vikatan and Nakeeran reports at the height of the protests on this where self-styled protestors were writing on the ills of nuclear energy you would have hit your head against the wall looking at the lies, half-truths and inaccurate reports they were using to peddle their agenda.

I think Miss Roy also supported these protestors, does that make her a part of the Vatican? As for the church, the priest names, etc. I have no clue.

Thats true mate. You have little clue about the motives of these protests. And Roy is a certified nutcase who calls Maoists as Gandhians with guns and secession of Kashmir from India. She will protest against anything India.

As for the protestors not coming to such protests anymore, I presume there is lot more police in force smacking ppl around. And they probably need to feed their families and work. That was the core problem. The govt in fact brought that up, stating how can they protest when they have to work. So times have changes, protesting these days is not the same when the Brits ruled India.
.

Whatever. The point is the leaders who are doing these protests are not doing it for any greater good. But for filling up their bak balance and peddle the agenda of their masters sitting abroad.

 

[ashokdeiva]

Govt has already tried many times to explain the safety procedures that are inbuilt and the contingency plans but the protestors are not ready to listen. Even the most repsected Kalam sir has tried to mediate. But apparently the bishops and political scientists know more about nuclear energy and reactor design than Dr.Kalam.



Wrong. No one said there is no kickbacks involved. But take the example of Bofors..when it was bought huge kickbacks were involved..that did not mean they were falulty or under-standard. They performed brilliantly in Kargil and was the backbone of our victory there.

The VVER-1000 reactors that Russia is building is a 3+ generation reactor and is one of the most technologically advanced and safest in the world

http://www.npcil.nic.in/pdf/Insight_of_Safety_features_of_KKNPP.pdf

Advanced Designs of VVER Reactor Plant




Wrong and wrong. If this had been china you would not even have heard of this protest and all those protestors would have been arrested and sent to some labor camps.

Voting is not possible because already 15000 crores have been spent and where were these dumbos when the plant was in construction for 20 years ?

Dr Kalam is a rocket scientist and not a nuclear scientist, besides we are Humans, we are prone to mistakes but the difference is that we INDIANS do not learn from the mistakes, Kerala government has a mandate not to drain the river beds of its soil resource, but we are TN have removed the soil of all know rivers in TN from Cavery to Noyal, to Pallar.
You have not lived near the costal villages of Kalpakam where the Indian Navy dumped the lead canisters of Kalpakam N waste very near to the shore, might be this small video will give you a better pic.
People who do not know Tamil please accept my apologies.

 

[axisofevil]

Govt has already tried many times to explain the safety procedures that are inbuilt and the contingency plans but the protestors are not ready to listen. Even the most repsected Kalam sir has tried to mediate. But apparently the bishops and political scientists know more about nuclear energy and reactor design than Dr.Kalam.



Wrong. No one said there is no kickbacks involved. But take the example of Bofors..when it was bought huge kickbacks were involved..that did not mean they were falulty or under-standard. They performed brilliantly in Kargil and was the backbone of our victory there.

The VVER-1000 reactors that Russia is building is a 3+ generation reactor and is one of the most technologically advanced and safest in the world

http://www.npcil.nic.in/pdf/Insight_of_Safety_features_of_KKNPP.pdf

Advanced Designs of VVER Reactor Plant




Wrong and wrong. If this had been china you would not even have heard of this protest and all those protestors would have been arrested and sent to some labor camps.

Voting is not possible because already 15000 crores have been spent and where were these dumbos when the plant was in construction for 20 years ?

NOBODY HAS TALKED ABOUT CONTINGENCY PLANS. I asked you to address my post, you stil haven;t. There is something wrong with you. YOu don;t deny kickkbacks took place in this venture yet you use the analogy with Bofors. WTF? Dude, listen to yourself. There is no room for corruption in India. It folks like you who allow this **** to continue. Take a stand and fight it. Convince ppl this is not the NORM! Oh and while bofors did help, missiles and bombs from Israel is what ultimately led ot our victory.



Listen to yourself.
Voting is not possible because already 15000 crores have been spent and where were these dumbos when the plant was in construction for 20 years ?


Asho pointed out before doing so, there should have been a mandate and vote in place. It didn;t happen, only on paper. So these ppl didn;t have a chance on the f-king issue.


Russians and Safety....LOL...thanks for the bloody laugh