Anti-headscarf Adana school principal suspended

[Targon]

Well parents equally scums, but banning it would not solve the problem and please don't come with "thats parent's choice" bs, thats plainly mind abusing.

 

[explorer9]

Neo Ottoman AKP knows the pulse of the nation and they know what the majority of Turkish people want. People want to live with their religion & the days of forced secularization are over the other two major political parties CHP & MHP must understand and the changes and go along with the wishes of people.

 

[Developereo]

Question for people who want the State, not the parents, to dictate a child's dress up to a certain age:

Why not apply the same principle to circumcision? and to baptism and rites of passage like the barmitzvah? By your logic, all these activities should also be illegal. In fact, giving a 'non-secular' name to a child should be illegal since the parents are 'imposing' their culture on the child.

But of course, Western countries allow all these things, so we must play along with the hypocrisy of singling out the head scarf for special treatment.

 

[Targon]

How exactly a name can change the future of a kid ? I can't understand that logic, seriously are you guys think forcing little kids to follow islamic rules is makes them muslim ? they have no idea what they're doing, thats the mind abusement.

Although banning something like that is not the right solve of the problem.

 

[Selim I]

I'm against each form of discrimination, whether its a headscarf or something else. But I'm against headscarfs on girl who are not old enough to decide whether they want it or not. I guess in this case she was old enough since she was graduating.

I've seen girls wearing headscarfs who were 9-10 and I think that headscarf bans should be in effect in public buildings (schools)until they're old enough to decide if they're cool with it or not.

Not because I like people being "forced" to do something. But are you also against parents who "forces" their children to take their clothes on, and buys their childrens clothes? Or should 9-10 year old children have their own opportunity to select which clothes they want to wear?

Even if small children are "forced" to wear certain clothes which they never had the right to choose, they come of age, they will eventually have their own free will to wear whatever they want, make-ups, skirts/mini-skirts, or headscarfs. The only thing I never understood is, why is headscarf such a disturbing sign to kemalists?

 

[Developereo]

How exactly a name can change the future of a kid ? I can't understand that logic, seriously are you guys think forcing little kids to follow islamic rules is makes them muslim ? they have no idea what they're doing, thats the mind abusement.

The issue is not about making anyone Muslim. The issue is the right of parents to impart their culture to their children and the right of citizens to build a society that reflects their values. The State's job is to provide an environment of equal opportunity free from harassment.

Many people, especially Europeans, lack a fundamental understanding of what secularism is all about. It is NOT about making people ashamed of their religion -- it is about denying special privileges to some religions.

 

[Targon]

Another failed logic, forcing islamic rules on kids will change their life view, its have nothing the example you gave.

Developereo

Is it changes the fact that its mind abusement ? no.

Of course values of the society will be teached to new generations but not by forcing them in a period they can't understand the meaning of it.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Non-Turkish forummers just a heads up for you. Reasoning with Kemalists is impossible. As i wrote before, i havent found one single valid point from them that is up to any reason. They totally ignore the discrimination done to Muslim people for decades in Turkey by Kemalists, and now cry that AKP is limiting theirs. Excuse my language but this is the extreme form of bull sheet. They see headscarf as limiting ones freedom, EVEN though they do it by their own choice. While they don't see limiting people with headscarf enterin universities and pursuing their dreams as problematic. Talk about hypocricy...

 

[Developereo]

Another failed logic, forcing islamic rules on kids will change their life view, its have nothing the example you gave.

Developereo

Is it changes the fact that its mind abusement ? no.

Of course values of the society will be teached to new generations but not by forcing them in a period they can't understand the meaning of it.

By your logic, you should outlaw baptism, barmitzvahs, 'religious' names, Sunday school for kids, and taking of children to church/temple/mosque by parents.

But you know that, if you did that, it would be called denial of fundamental human rights.

So, my question again, compared to all these examples above, what is so special and different about a head scarf that it merits being singled out?

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Another failed logic, forcing islamic rules on kids will change their life view, its have nothing the example you gave.

Developereo

Is it changes the fact that its mind abusement ? no.

Of course values of the society will be teached to new generations but not by forcing them in a period they can't understand the meaning of it.

So neither the parents nor the school should teach the children about ethics and moral? The children should just aquire these qualities by themselves? And if the parents are religious they shouldn't be able to teach their children whatever they like. Are you completely out of your mind? Its their own children, they can teach them whatever they like as long as it is not self destructing and according to universal ethics. In fact parents are obligated to teach their children ethics and moral and give them their daily neccesities. If parents do not give their children these things, what is their function? Just giving birth and let them decide everything from their own way from point zero? Not teaching them their values, and their perspective of life?
Buddy, you are really lost, i honestly can't make sense of anything that you have said to this point.

You hypocrotic kemalists living in a Muslim majority country have become so anti-islam that you would deny them everything. In my eyes there isn't a difference between your totalitarian way of statethinking and Nazi Germany or Communist Russia. Get a grip of reality. Look around yourself for one damn second and realize that Muslims exist and they have every damn right to wear their headscarf wherever and whenever they like. It is not up to some psycopaths to decide, do you understand that? You take away their most basic rights as human beings and deny them education, what can be worse than that? How can you not understand that that creates hatred, i really do not know how simpler i can write for you so you can grasp this. But whichever way i try you lot seem to be unable to comprehend very basic and simple things.

 

[Farooq]

Looks like the secular kelamists days are numbered.

Non-Turkish forummers just a heads up for you. Reasoning with Kemalists is impossible. As i wrote before, i havent found one single valid point from them that is up to any reason. They totally ignore the discrimination done to Muslim people for decades in Turkey by Kemalists, and now cry that AKP is limiting theirs. Excuse my language but this is the extreme form of bull sheet. They see headscarf as limiting ones freedom, EVEN though they do it by their own choice. While they don't see limiting people with headscarf enterin universities and pursuing their dreams as problematic. Talk about hypocricy...

these secular rats also lurk in Pakistan.. in fact, most of the mods here share the ideology of kemalists

 

[Developereo]

Reasoning with Kemalists is impossible.

I don't want to step into the fight for/against Kemalists.

Ataturk did what he had to do in the contemporary context. It is a fact that the Islamic clergy had a big responsibility in creating the rot within the Ottoman Empire. Ataturk had to bring these religious power-brokers under control. Perhaps he went too far in retrospect -- although we can never second guess his moves at the time. Perhaps it's time for the pendulum to swing back from the other extreme and towards the center.

They see headscarf as limiting ones freedom, EVEN though they do it by their own choice. While they don't see limiting people with headscarf enterin universities and pursuing their dreams as problematic. Talk about hypocricy...

This part I agree with.

The State should never force a student to chose between their religion and their other rights: education, career, etc.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I don't want to step into the fight for/against Kemalists.

Ataturk did what he had to do in the contemporary context. It is a fact that the Islamic clergy had a big responsibility in creating the rot within the Ottoman Empire. Ataturk had to bring these religious power-brokers under control. Perhaps he went too far in retrospect -- although we can never second guess his moves at the time. Perhaps it's time for the pendulum to swing back from the other extreme and towards the center.



This part I agree with.

The State should never force a student to chose between their religion and their other rights: education, career, etc.

The bold part: exactly. I actually tried to explain that phase in this thread http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...rn-thought-turkey-problem-yet-not-solved.html post #1.
Therein i explained that "only when a reform of this kind (critical spirit and free information flow without any restrictions that is both religious etc) comes about will Turkey be able to combine the streams of its cultural heritage and evolve an in-
tegrated intellectual movement".

But some people do not want to or can not understand this because Islam is according to them the destructive element in our society, sadly.

 

[vsdoc]

The issue is not about making anyone Muslim. The issue is the right of parents to impart their culture to their children and the right of citizens to build a society that reflects their values. The State's job is to provide an environment of equal opportunity free from harassment.

Many people, especially Europeans, lack a fundamental understanding of what secularism is all about. It is NOT about making people ashamed of their religion -- it is about denying special privileges to some religions.

Which means you must have a lot of respect for ours, even if unspoken?

 

[Targon]

Zulkarneyn, I'm talking about the sickness of that moral, of course we can't make parents to don't do that, but state should not promote it like how they're doing it right now, and don't try to act like its just about religion, for example taking kids to profession schools in early ages is the same thing.

Developereo

Denial of the fundamental rights of parents, hmm, what about the child ? yes taking the kid to mosque is same, taking for what ? is that kid know what he's doing ? and again name issue is not same, it will not change the life view of children.

Kids will learn the values of society, but not forcing or in early ages, is it hard to understand ?