Answer: Why Pakistan Navy has her Submarines in Karachi and not in Lahore.

[jaibi]

Thank you, brother but others may learn from it if not that member himself.

@jaibi a considerate reply with elder brother's composure in the face of bigotry. However, this phenomenon is by design by some members here. Provocative and full of hate; you called it out; kudos to you. But having said that, my personal opinion is that there is no place for such members here. Such members litter this forum with their rhetoric of everything a conspiracy against them by other ethnic groups; especially Punjabis. They should be permanently banned. Personally have tried to reason with some here, but with out any positive result. There is no end to their hate.

He's answered and settled it, brother, just pointing out that you're the one getting belligerent here.

yaar bhai this is your thread, I respect that and i did not want to make it for myself, I was appreciating you addressing the concern of that Pakloveturkey member, where did I do wrong ? I just said , that if in past If my concerns were addressed like this , than I wont get banned nor people would think so wronly of me , I did not want to make this about me, he is just poking his head on things which doesn't involve him . Can you please Explain this dude ?



Ary Exactly my point, read my post for @jaibi .. this is his thread and I don't want to derail it , he quote me and claim I am playing victim when he doesn't even know what I am talking about ..this is clear provocation from his part .

 

[BHarwana]

Ary Exactly my point, read my post for @jaibi .. this is his thread and I don't want to derail it , he quote me and claim I am playing victim when he doesn't even know what I am talking about ..this is clear provocation from his part .

If I would say something you will also misinterpret it again but the issue is your initial post was taking thread in a different direction.
Regarding people attending your issues & questions. To give you a reminder when ever you have asked any question it was always answered please go through all your personal threads & check them. On your tussle thing, the person you are attacking here is most concerned about you so first of all you are wrong that you are not given attention here.

 

[YeBeWarned]

@jaibi @BHarwana I disagree with you both, but i will leave it here, Just tell him not to quote me when he has no idea of what I am talking about, and just like he called me on playing Victim card, as I said if he did it one time than I will lose my patience and than it won't be good . I am out !!

Pata nai kis kis ko Mod bana dia hai PDF pe

 

[BHarwana]

@jaibi @BHarwana I disagree with you both, but i will leave it here, Just tell him not to quote me when he has no idea of what I am talking about, and just like he called me on playing Victim card, as I said if he did it one time than I will lose my patience and than it won't be good . I am out !!

Pata nai kis kis ko Mod bana dia hai PDF pe

He has not engaged you for a long time my friend but you are still provoking him & that is your issue. Please adjust that, no one here is afraid of you but we all love you so please don't exploit that.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Karachiites don't like this at all when some jerk sitting Islamabad decided to shift things from here to there.

From security point of view Karachi is not a safe place any more.Every day we hear news about sleeping cells of RAW and other agencies..Sooner or later every thing which is significant from strategic point of view will be relocated from Karachi.In the end it will be only a business city like Mumbai.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Although I disagree with some points made by @PaklovesTurkiye , he is a great contributor here and has my respect.

Also, great responses by @jaibi .

Certain forces are again playing with Pakistani minds, I saw it even in Central Punjab last year with all the rhetoric against IK. Certain parties who have lost all relevance and influence are trying to regain it by using racism and sectarianism.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Your efforts are appreciated but instead of wasting so much time on such stupid questions, its better to delete them and ban the poster because their only intention is to create ethnic rift by raising such ludicrously stupid yet loaded questions.

So today while coming over the forums I got the notification of the following post by the following member and I think it’s high time that someone seriously answers these questions but I also want to take this opportunity to answer the questions insinutated here but without the courage to actually ask them. Full disclosure first, I’m a former service member and I have served the Pakistan Navy as well.

@PaklovesTurkiye

Greetings.


Sure.



Willing and able.



Hopefully, you’ll sleep tonight.



Who told you that? The submarines are in the ocean not in Karachi. I think it’ll only humiliate someone who doesn’t know how naval ops work yet has the arrogance not to learn but make some strange point which has nothing to do where the submarines are. Don’t worry, Pakistan and her awesome navy face no embarrassment from our submarines but a few of our citizens are another story.

Firstly, water is H2O not CO2 that’s carbon dioxide. Again Pakistan Navy deploys its submarines in the ocean and not Karachi. Second part, the Naval HQ and Naval War College are located in Islamabad and Lahore respectively so the Navy definitely has seen them. Your point is?

I guess I’ll have to do.



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Why? Why not be clear?




Oh, so we have a Desi Lord Nelson here to place judgement on the navy? Please, enlighten us.




What’s the problem here? The Army Staff College is in Quetta. The Air War College is in Karachi. The forces of Pakistan spread themselves out for the purpose of making their officers well rounded and able to serve everywhere within the nation. It’s quite clear that you’ve never served because you’d have the Air Force placing its war college in the cockpit of a F-16 and the Army in the Al Khalid? These men have spent their careers on the field. Staff courses are to make them good commanders i.e. understand tactics from a strategic point of view that’s why it’s placed in a certain rank. It’s not just in Pakistan but the world over. Ask any military man and they’d answer the same. All armed forces have two componants over which they operate: command and control. In practice the former is for officers especially at the senior level and the latter is for the NCO/JCO level mid-career officers are in the transition between the two. That comes after considerable career experience in the field i.e. the air for the air force, land for the army and sea for the navy in very broad terms. Did you know that many naval officers go through the PAF War College or the Army one because they’re engineers or from the marines therefore they need to understand their own dimension but from the naval perspective nonetheless? Would the great Admiral/Marshal/General @PaklovesTurkiye be pleased if it were not so because we’re not here to defend anyone or much less fight a war but please the single greatest warrior who ever placed their finger on the keyboard?

Please. Consider this an answer: it’s in the hands of people who die if they make a mistake. They’re much more serious about it than you’d ever be. Sleep tight because the boys are up protecting you, on the ground, in the air and in the sea.



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Again, thus speaks a man who has no clue as to what he’s talking about. The HQs are in Isl/Rwp they shouldn’t be? You don’t understand these things, at least learn a thing or two before saying something that can show that you’ve no idea. The Naval war college doesn’t need to be in Karachi. The PAF already has one there. Ever noticed that? The PN already has institutions of training that are required in Karachi to be in Karachi. They aren’t here to play favourites. We learnt this lesson the hard way in 71 when our naval assets were hit badly because of their concentration before the army started developing Balochistan for OPS the navy did because diversification is key. Things can go bad.




They don’t need to operate two. They need one. No body snatched anything from Karachi. PAF has a war college there already if it’s any solace to you. Your personal issues with Lahore are not the navy’s problem. Your language is an embarrassment to your nation. Get a pressurized suit for your blood.



Karachi is Lahore and Islamabad. You’re the one who’s having problems. I’ve served in Karachi for quite some time and Karachites have served with me in Lahore and Islamabad. Each city has its own beauty; people like you are a pimple for every city.




Naval war college is where rulers are born?



Probably because the points you’re making are nonsensical. ‘Harsh aggressive attitude’ or ethnocentrism/racism.


‘I’ve many black friends’ defense.


The politics of division have always been a problem for Pakistan. As long as we don’t leave our ‘villages’ behind – meaning what we’re truly loyal to then there would be no progress for anyone. This also means thinking nationally rather than regionally. Most problems of Karachi stem out from a historical fact that it was the only metropolitan city that we had and uncontrolled urbanization and planning neglect has concentrated a huge portion of the population there; wherever there’s an significant population density then such problems arise and that problem is the tribalism of human nature. People begin to divide up themselves into groups and discriminate. The same problem is everywhere in every burgeoning urban center, the bigger it is the bigger the problem. It’s as simple as that. The main proponent of the politics of division in Karachi has lost significant face in recent times because it’s not what the city wants. Say what you want but before it wasn’t seemingly possible to achieve this. It’s now because the mentality that the user who’s made the OP has been defeated. Every Lahori belongs in Karachi and every Karchite is at home in Lahore; same goes for Peshawar, Quetta, and every other city.

It resonates with me when I was in Balochistan, ironically with the naval set up and a Bolchi responded with, ‘Apney ghar main kon darta hai?’ To a question posed to Punjabi officers if they felt unsafe in Balochistan. He wasn’t from the military if anyone is wondering. The same I think is true for every patriotic Pakistani.

Thank you, would love to read your thoughts but please maintain decorum.

 

[PanzerKiel]

@jaibi
BRB-LC can surely accommodate mini-subs......can be used to infiltrate, rather bypass Lahore's defences....reminds me of Rhine and German frogmen operations.

 

[Nilgiri]

@jaibi @PanzerKiel so what was the main reason to move the NWC in first place though? They wanted to expand the campus and/or simply be lot closer to the all the main HQs?

Like why not just keep in Karachi (expand there as needed), so without much movement of faculty and students, you got practical application area at hand right there if needed....you got naval academy at Karachi too.

I suppose NWC doesnt carry a huge courseload for that kind of thing in general so it can be deputed as required to the coastal facilities.

 

[313ghazi]

Karachiites don't like this at all when some jerk sitting Islamabad decided to shift things from here to there. It's in Psyche of ours and hence we react. Got nothing against Navy.

People over here know me very well.

I speak my mind without violating forum rules.

I will say you didn't get my point thoroughly.

Anyways, I do acknowledge that I got carried away. But my post and its context was genuine if you see the history and larger picture.

That's a terrible mentality to have and anyone from anywhere who holds it should correct themselves. We are one nation, the enemy will not check your address before they kill you. Even more importantly we are one Ummah. On the day of judgement we will be raised either with the believers or the non believers - geography won't play a part.

We have to live that notion at whatever cost. Otherwise success will evade us as a nation.

 

[The Diplomat]

@jaibi
BRB-LC can surely accommodate mini-subs......can be used to infiltrate, rather bypass Lahore's defences....reminds me of Rhine and German frogmen operations.

You make a good point.

BRB will be a natural stop point for an invading ground force due to the terrain. Same happened in 1965, the Indians found it hard to penetrate beyond the BRB canal. These mini-subs would be useless there because there will be little to none sea assets of any country deployed there (if I am correct). Wouldn't an easier option be to deploy a portable bridge than to use mini-subs?

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

@jaibi @PanzerKiel so what was the main reason to move the NWC in first place though? They wanted to expand the campus and/or simply be lot closer to the all the main HQs?

Like why not just keep in Karachi (expand there as needed), so without much movement of faculty and students, you got practical application area at hand right there if needed....you got naval academy at Karachi too.

I suppose NWC doesnt carry a huge courseload for that kind of thing in general so it can be deputed as required to the coastal facilities.

I think one of the reasons seems to be to not have all assets in one place. The Navy has all the institutions that need to be near the sea exactly there i.e near the sea.

However, they don't want all the Naval institutes to be in one city. So the institutions that could be shifted to the other part of the country were shifted. So you don't lose all your Navy in some attack on Karachi.

That is what I understood from the answer.

 

[Nilgiri]

Salaam



I think one of the reasons seems to be to not have all assets in one place. The Navy has all the institutions that need to be near the sea exactly there i.e near the sea.

However, they don't want all the Naval institutes to be in one city. So the institutions that could be shifted to the other part of the country were shifted. So you don't lose all your Navy in some attack on Karachi.

That is what I understood from the answer.

Yeah I got that as general gist too, spread your eggs and stuff.

But one can do that by just creating 2nd and 3rd campus etc I feel...and have courses oriented in theory and application etc according to that.

But in any case it can be deputed since navy is one organisation anyhow....simply NWC student goes to academy or a PNS station on coast for something more pratical oriented anyway. So its not huge deal where the main campus is located....just what is prioritised.

In fact for paklovesturkiye, leading answer can simply be given that pak naval academy (arguably huge significance to have on coast given training needs) is in Karachi and stays in Karachi forseeably for just that reason.

 

[Genghis khan1]

So today while coming over the forums I got the notification of the following post by the following member and I think it’s high time that someone seriously answers these questions but I also want to

You should have explained him, Subs specificities states, only for the streets of Karachi.

I never intend to mock armed forces and whenever I do, I criticize top leadership.

But if anyone got offended by my previous posts....You misunderstood me then.

Apologies, still

Questions should always be asked...That why this forum was made for. May be I added too much sarcasm

 

[baqai]

We need to sit and consider why people of Balochistan, Sindh and also parts of Punjab
have this inferiority complex (yes we do), simple answer is that for decades we have been raped by the likes of MQM, PPP, ANP and others, while whether you like them or not but NS and SS build Lahore to be a modern city.

Now the thing is not where a certain war college should be, it's that feeling that "oh ye bhi giya yahan sai" its like that kid in the family with severe depression, you don't SHOUT at him/her you need to sit and council, yes the depressed one might sound unreasonable at times and may whine at things which are beyond comprehension but you don't give up on that child because he/she is your loved one, you need to sit, spend time with them and bring them out of that depression before they go suicidal.

The kind of posts i have seen lately are beyond comprehension, hate would be under statement and as a Pakistani it was disgusting to read few comments from both the sides.

Just my 2 cents