Another Lt.Colonel Martyred in N.Waziristan

[Irfan Baloch]

One more thing i don't understand,taliban can't fight without ammunition right?Where are the factories where the ammunition for AK's is made?Thye surely can't hide that in caves or jungle?Pak should target supply lines and starve talibs out while US drones slaughter their leadership.

this my dear is a million dollar question which our brave leadership is unable to answer for the past decade

the amount of weapon dumps and semtex we discovered after raiding some of their hideouts couldnt have been produced in caves or in the basement and was only possible to be produce at industrial scale and not to forget the logistics

but forget that, this is too much thinking. this breed of terrorists must be eradicated and if they manage to export their influence out of Pakistan, say into Indian then the effects will be 5 times more, the biggest victims of their attacks will be Indian Muslims who will be targeted by not only the Indian version of TTP but Indian authorities, Hindu reactionary mob.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

They are big players but not exclusively so. And besides, smuggling Afghan transit goods is a good moneymaker too for those with assets on both sides of the Durand Line.

agree to that, (thats what I mean (for CIA, Afghan NA) TTP has much easier & reliable routes.. TTP has not bound by religion, code or custom to forbid itself from any form of benefit, it uses the religion and its logic to justify that very well. apart from burning NATO trucks, many mysteriously disappear and find their way to TTP hideouts which explain some of the high tech gear recovered by Pakistan army.

we have some suspicions and some proofs about the source of funding of TTP and BLA but thats pretty much it. our agencies and forces dont think that they need to go beyond the point of stating the obvious and disrupt and destroy terrorists supply lines

 

[Argus Panoptes]

agree to that, (thats what I mean (for CIA, Afghan NA) TTP has much easier & reliable routes.. TTP has not bound by religion, code or custom to forbid itself from any form of benefit, it uses the religion and its logic to justify that very well. apart from burning NATO trucks, many mysteriously disappear and find their way to TTP hideouts which explain some of the high tech gear recovered by Pakistan army.

we have some suspicions and some proofs about the source of funding of TTP and BLA but thats pretty much it. our agencies and forces dont think that they need to go beyond the point of stating the obvious and disrupt and destroy terrorists supply lines

The porous border and the difficult terrain makes the interruption of supply lines intermittent at best. A permanent blockade would take resources of a magnitude simply not available.

 

[surya kiran]

this breed of terrorists must be eradicated and if they manage to export their influence out of Pakistan, say into Indian then the effects will be 5 times more, the biggest victims of their attacks will be Indian Muslims who will be targeted by not only the Indian version of TTP but Indian authorities, Hindu reactionary mob.

I completely 100% agree with you. The one thing, I am happy about is that there is a buffer in the middle called Pakistan. Now, this may sound selfish, but, I am being selfish here. I would, anyday, prefer the PA handling it and not the IA. The bunch of idiots on your western front is dangerous. And they need to be extinguished at the earliest. But, then the concept of strategic depth and the future potential to use such a force against India is what will again stop the PA from destroying it, even if it has the capability to do so. And this will be critical to watch. The endgame.

For the latter part of your statement, I would politely disagree.

 

[surya kiran]

sorry to disagree but Northern Alliance warlords and CIA has monopoly over it. that source is too cumbersome, unreliable and time wasting. apart from local extortion and robberies there are volunteer contributions from Arab brothers and local population in addition to some unknown agencies that are using TTP as their asset as Pak Army is allegedly using haqqanis as theirs

Most areas of poppy cultivation are in the South.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

strategic depth and the future potential to use

thats misunderstood concept. strategic depth doenst mean Kyani's summer and winter resorts in Ghazni and Kabul. its meant that we dont have hostiles on the west as well when we already have a very big army deployed along our eastern borders.

regarding disgreeing part
I am talking about cause and effect, incident and reaction. its only natural. maybe over a decade you guys have built better control over human emotions but in the entire world elsewhere, the majority always reacts to some incidents and sometimes the community suffers because some elements within it or some with similar faith have done some despicable things. burning of Mosques, Quran, hate crimes and even murder of muslims in other countries has happened because of Al Qaeda inspired terrorism.

sticking back to the subject. TTP is essentially out of Pakistan army's league
I am not talking about its military might but talking in terms of its source of power and inspiration and its ability to meld in the pubic and finding willing hosts despite having killed 50K of it.

 

[Jango]

I am not talking about its military might but talking in terms of its source of power and inspiration and its ability to meld in the pubic and finding willing hosts despite having killed 50K of it.

That isn't the Army's deficiency or failure is it? THat is our failure as a nation, don't you think.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

That isn't the Army's deficiency or failure is it? THat is the our failure as a nation, don't you think.

It is army's failure , its public relations is as impressive as its performance against saving its assets from the terrorists and the over all fight. it has sworn to defend our ideological boundaries and fight internal and external enemies.

that fight is not just with guns, but with pen and tongue too. its copy pasted press releases and scripted briefings only bring out one reaction from the most patriots like me "oh shut up and stop embarrassing yourselves"

public is a flock of sheep, if the shepherd and the dog are trained and able then predators got no chance
dont blame the sheep. it will follow the crowd and will do everything it can to get itself in danger.

 

[Jango]

public is a flock of sheep,...

And that is the public's failure, that it is a flock of sheep...it shouldn't be a flock of sheep with no grey matter, rather it should be able to think by itself and choose correctly. Insaan main Allah nay shaoor bhi dala hai.

I agree with the rest of your post though, we suck at propaganda.

 

[surya kiran]

It is army's failure , its public relations is as impressive as its performance against saving its assets from the terrorists and the over all fight. it has sworn to defend our ideological boundaries and fight internal and external enemies.

that fight is not just with guns, but with pen and tongue too. its copy pasted press releases and scripted briefings only bring out one reaction from the most patriots like me "oh shut up and stop embarrassing yourselves"

public is a flock of sheep, if the shepherd and the dog are trained and able then predators got no chance
dont blame the sheep. it will follow the crowd and will do everything it can to get itself in danger.

The problem is with conflicting messages being thrown out, don't you think? And it has less do with an individual organisation and more to do with policy?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

It is army's failure , its public relations is as impressive as its performance against saving its assets from the terrorists and the over all fight. it has sworn to defend our ideological boundaries and fight internal and external enemies.

that fight is not just with guns, but with pen and tongue too. its copy pasted press releases and scripted briefings only bring out one reaction from the most patriots like me "oh shut up and stop embarrassing yourselves"

public is a flock of sheep, if the shepherd and the dog are trained and able then predators got no chance
dont blame the sheep. it will follow the crowd and will do everything it can to get itself in danger.

Isn't that an over-reach of purpose Sir? The Army is sworn to protect the boundaries of the country against external enemies and to aid civil power, according to the Constitution (Article 245):

"The Armed Forces shall, under the directions of the Federal Government, defend Pakistan against external aggression or threat of war, and, subject to law, act in aid of civil power when called upon to do so."

It is clear that defining or protecting ANY ideologies is NOT the Army's job.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And that is the public's failure, that it is a flock of sheep...it shouldn't be a flock of sheep with no grey matter, rather it should be able to think by itself and choose correctly. Insaan main Allah nay shaoor bhi dala hai.

I agree with the rest of your post though, we suck at propaganda.

peole who joined Lashker Jhangvi and Tehrik Taliban Pakistan after lal Masjid operation spread all sorts of stories, i came across one where the guy said that the operation was conducted entirely by shias who first killed 1500 of their Sunni fellow soldiers because they had refused to storm a Mosque. after that they attacked the mosque and killed 3000 Muslims and rapped 1500 Muslim women.

they also maintained that the Mosque was bombarded with white phosphorus and such is the power of propaganda or the strength of faith that even the neighbours across the road believe that and done dare to ask themselves that how did they survive that bombardment and why did all those pictures looked familiar to Faluja in Iraq that was assaulted by Americans.


it is the army which is responsible for letting a devil preach in lal masjid once again who openly declares that Pakistani soldiers dont deserve Islamic burials or any burials at all and their corpses should be left to rot. his followers have made another terror outfit called Ghazi force in the name of his dead brother that has been involved in attacks on mosques and passengers in tribal areas.

not sure what sort of public image Pak army is trying to save. its despised by Judiciary and lawyers. its loathes and ridiculed by the media. it has lost its respect in general public, its hated by the radicalised society then why not do what a badnam should do?

democracy ... right

Isn't that an over-reach of purpose Sir? The Army is sworn to protect the boundaries of the country against external enemies and to aid civil power, according to the Constitution (Article 245):

"The Armed Forces shall, under the directions of the Federal Government, defend Pakistan against external aggression or threat of war, and, subject to law, act in aid of civil power when called upon to do so."

It is clear that defining or protecting ANY ideologies is NOT the Army's job.

send GHQ a note
its not doing either anyway

 

[Argus Panoptes]

.........

not sure what sort of public image Pak army is trying to save. its despised by Judiciary and lawyers. its loathes and ridiculed by the media. it has lost its respect in general public, its hated by the radicalised society then why not do what a badnam should do?

democracy ... right



send GHQ a note
its not doing either anyway

So if the Army is despised, loathed, ridiculed and hated, then does that give the Army the justification to do what a "badnam" should do? Such logic will only increase the Army's troubles.

And I would send GHQ a note, except that it never listens to anyone.

 

[Jango]

peole who joined Lashker Jhangvi and Tehrik Taliban Pakistan after lal Masjid operation spread all sorts of stories, i came across one where the guy said that the operation was conducted entirely by shias who first killed 1500 of their Sunni fellow soldiers because they had refused to storm a Mosque. after that they attacked the mosque and killed 3000 Muslims and rapped 1500 Muslim women.

they also maintained that the Mosque was bombarded with white phosphorus and such is the power of propaganda or the strength of faith that even the neighbours across the road believe that and done dare to ask themselves that how did they survive that bombardment and why did all those pictures looked familiar to Faluja in Iraq that was assaulted by Americans

Deluded idiots, the only civilized word for them.

it is the army which is responsible for letting a devil preach in lal masjid once again who openly declares that Pakistani soldiers dont deserve Islamic burials or any burials at all and their corpses should be left to rot. his followers have made another terror outfit called Ghazi force in the name of his dead brother that has been involved in attacks on mosques and passengers in tribal areas.

But then the likes of Hamid Mir and other free media folks, the humanitarian activists like Asma Jehangir (wonder why she always pin points to the Army for human rights?) and much more start their own campaigns...damned if you do, damned if you don't...that seems to be the case in Pakistan for not only the Army, but a whole lot of other institutions.

I so wish for the Army to take out this Fake Mullah with a single bullet to the head, I still can't fathom as to how did he get an acquittal?

not sure what sort of public image Pak army is trying to save. its despised by Judiciary and lawyers. its loathes and ridiculed by the media. it has lost its respect in general public, its hated by the radicalised society then why not do what a badnam should do?

That is a very valid point, but don't you think the Army is trying to reclaim the lost image?

democracy ... right

Yup, as is the case with other things in Pakistan, jamhuriat and mufahmat!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

So if the Army is despised, loathed, ridiculed and hated, then does that give the Army the justification to do what a "badnam" should do? Such logic will only increase the Army's troubles.

And I would send GHQ a note, except that it never listens to anyone.

YOU ARE bailing the army out.
and its no solution

are you expecting general public to do the job of Pakistan's most expensive institution?
what sort of public image will it save by not going all out after the terrorists? its already soaked in mud so what more damage will its actions do? they might have a reverse effect.

"angry brothers " have killed 50 K Pakistanis and are respected and feared by the public. I am not asking for the same number but say 10% of it and it will not only get public respect and also get the results.

want to bet with me who is hiding in Lal masjid cellars? AQ/ LeJ leadership? next would be attackers of Kahuta?