Another Lt.Colonel Martyred in N.Waziristan

[Argus Panoptes]

........

There are still many Cambodias within the FATA region from where the Cong are able to move their men and material to the DMZs..and bombing the Ho Chi Minh trails will have little effect other than a further radicalized population. The only solution lies in breeding enough ants of a different species so that they may overpower this one. ...........

Good analogy, but breeding the correct types of ants is a task way beyond the ambit or ability of the Army.

 

[muse]

Here is the quintessential problem faced in any insurgency.
The PA troops that are out there may go out in force to attack or remove the Taliban. The PA troops require constant logistical support during this entire process.
Comparatively, your usual TTP fellow survives solely on four things.. his gun, his shawl, his water bottle and an extra magazine.
On these things this man is capable of remaining in an area of conflict for months on end. Because at some point he does have somebody that he knows who will provide him water and food on the go..regardless of whether they support TTP or not.

His means of communications is even more intriguing, everything from normal cellphones to encrypted burst transmission radio's have been found with these fellows. include the many tunnels and dense vegetation pathways that line the area.. then the lines of communication for this force are never interrupted. In essence, you may stamp out all the ants coming from an ant hole.. but since there are many nests and many ways to get to the nests.. you will never end the infestation.

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If the starting point is that you will never end the infestation, why fight? -- SpecOps/Services are designed, as the original Commando of the Boer war were, to live off the land and kill the enemy -- it seems PA does not have such a skill set in their inventory

 

[Jango]

Is this the incident you are talking about?

No...this was the mortar attack.

In the meantime..considering that a large section of civillians have been evacuated..the use of non-conventional weapons such as Chemical agents(those sufficiently powerful to overpower gas masks)within these supply lines might be considered.

But then who will convince the masses? Not the residents of the area, but your media anchors and politicians and all those folks. This won't be an easy thing to do.

 

[SQ8]

If the starting point is that you will never end the infestation, why fight? -- SpecOps/Services are designed, as the original Commando of the Boer war were, to live off the land and kill the enemy -- it seems PA does not have such a skill set in their inventory

You example is dual edged sword.. since the history of the Boer wars...along with a history of the Boer commandos themselves will show that these gentlemen, regardless of being able to live off the land were prone to tactical and strategic errors and certain boer groups did find themselves at the spear end of a Zulu group.
Critiquing deployment and usage of skills is different than skill set... the charge of the light brigade does not bring shame to those that took part in the charge nor is it reflective of their skill set. They were simply set into an unfavorable situation.

But then who will convince the masses? Not the residents of the area, but your media anchors and politicians and all those folks. This won't be an easy thing to do.

When there is the ability to blackout the media.. then it must be done.. after all when these people can be bought with Corollas and rolex's.. then there should be no problem to get them to keep quiet about the use of chemical weapons on these people.
The rest of the country will be too busy being distracted by loadshedding, famine and what not.

 

[muse]

You example is dual edged sword.. since the history of the Boer wars...along with a history of the Boer commandos themselves will show that these gentlemen, regardless of being able to live off the land were prone to tactical and strategic errors and certain boer groups did find themselves at the spear end of a Zulu group.
Critiquing deployment and usage of skills is different than skill set... the charge of the light brigade does not bring shame to those that took part in the charge nor is it reflective of their skill set. They were simply set into an unfavorable situation.
.

I don't think you make a persuasive case here - after all the "Commando"were successful enough to have contributed the concept to every armed force in the world -- and with the "Light Brigade", is it your point that the PA is deliberately using it's B and C teams ? If yes, what does this say about the PA and what this fight means to them

 

[Jango]

When there is the ability to blackout the media.. then it must be done.. after all when these people can be bought with Corollas and rolex's.. then there should be no problem to get them to keep quiet about the use of chemical weapons on these people.
The rest of the country will be too busy being distracted by loadshedding, famine and what not.

You simply can't do that...twitter, facebook, email...everything is a source. If you blackout the media, then conspiracy theories even more outrageous will be born...

There are tooo many cogs in this wheel, the channel owner, newscasters, producers, anchors, investigative journos etc.

In the end, I would advocate getting the civilians out of the area and doing a chemical run so that the Taliban can be finished totally.

But then people (like the ones on this very forum) will cry that Army bombs it's own territory!

 

[Argus Panoptes]

............

When there is the ability to blackout the media.. then it must be done.. after all when these people can be bought with Corollas and rolex's.. then there should be no problem to get them to keep quiet about the use of chemical weapons on these people.
The rest of the country will be too busy being distracted by loadshedding, famine and what not.

You simply can't do that...twitter, facebook, email...everything is a source. If you blackout the media, then conspiracy theories even more outrageous will be born...

There are tooo many cogs in this wheel, the channel owner, newscasters, producers, anchors, investigative journos etc.

In the end, I would advocate getting the civilians out of the area and doing a chemical run so that the Taliban can be finished totally.

But then people (like the ones on this very forum) will cry that Army bombs it's own territory!

Have you guys considered the international reaction and the consequences of using chemical weapons on our own population and how it can be manipulated against us?

 

[SQ8]

I don't think you make a persuasive case here - after all the "Commando"were successful enough to have contributed the concept to every armed force in the world -- and with the "Light Brigade", is it your point that the PA is deliberately using it's B and C teams ? If yes, what does this say about the PA and what this fight means to them

You arent understanding the argument. The focus is not on the ability of the Commando..but rather their employment.
Pakistan used its early commando force in a completely ill planned attempt to attack Indian Airfields in 65.. Does the onus lie on the commando or the planners??

Have you guys considered the international reaction and the consequences of using chemical weapons on our own population and how it can be manipulated against us?

Yes, it would have a serious backlash. But as I said, you can either breed a new group of ants to go after this colony.. or fumigate.
The situation has come to that point.

 

[muse]

You arent understanding the argument. Does the onus lie on the commando or the planners??

I really don't know where you are going with this because either way, it does not look good for the PA, does it? The planner are PA, the executors of planning are PA, both are trained by PA, both represent the best of PA

 

[Argus Panoptes]

.........

Yes, it would have a serious backlash. But as I said, you can either breed a new group of ants to go after this colony.. or fumigate.
The situation has come to that point.

You and I may think so, but do the people in-charge realize that the situation is indeed that dire? They are the ones who call the shots.

 

[SQ8]

I really don't know where you are going with this because either way, it does not look good for the PA, does it? The planner are PA, the executors of planning are PA, both are trained by PA, both represent the best of PA

Did Gen Niazi represent the best of PA?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Did Gen Niazi represent the best of PA?

maybe he did, at his time that was the best PA could offer.

 

[SQ8]

maybe he did, at his time that was the best PA could offer.

Quite the contrary..
Neither him or general Musa were promoted on merit or anything else... other than being Toady's.

 

[forcetrip]

I really don't know where you are going with this because either way, it does not look good for the PA, does it? The planner are PA, the executors of planning are PA, both are trained by PA, both represent the best of PA

Does not look good how? Have you heard of all their successes? All of them? I will bet my keyboard that you do not. Losses are part of the gamble.. Those guys with the SSG have had a bad day in Tirah since they walked in to take the hills.. They got them before the month ended. They lost a few guys, made a few mistakes, have a third world country backing them with an abnormally high expectation of an abnormally high emotional no understanding of military do's and donts of a public .. Keep your thoughts and prayers to wishing these guys the best and your sorrow at them for losing their life for me and anyone that lives in this country. They are answerable to noone, especially to people who have decided not to live here.

 

[muse]

Does not look good how? Have you heard of all their successes? All of them? I will bet my keyboard that you do not. Losses are part of the gamble.. Those guys with the SSG have had a bad day in Tirah since they walked in to take the hills.. They got them before the month ended. They lost a few guys, made a few mistakes, have a third world country backing them with an abnormally high expectation of an abnormally high emotional no understanding of military do's and donts of a public .. Keep your thoughts and prayers to wishing these guys the best and your sorrow at them for losing their life for me and anyone that lives in this country. They are answerable to noone, especially to people who have decided not to live here.

Please do not play more Muslim than Mohammad, it's offensive.