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Another ‘blasphemy’ case

This has been tried before and never works... as long as we remain divided with Nationalist ideals, we will go nowhere...

Ideology is the only thing that gives people real progress... As for the practicality, Khilafat is a much more practical system compared to the non sense we have in the world today... be them dictatorships, puppet regimes, western democracies or middle eastern monarchies and theocracy...

if western democracy was non sense then the west would be like afghanistan today.

i personally am not against or pro khilafat, but it simply is not possible, given the complication of relations between the countries, people, distance. you could do it centuries ago, but not now.
 
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thats what you think, if you read some of their history books and what they call their war of independance, it is claimed that the west pakistan was shoving their agenda down the throat of east Pakistanis under the cloak of Islam. Not to mention that in East Pakistan their was a considerable non muslim population as well which was not happy with the over Islamization driven by the west Pak. May be thats why their Supreme court has recently banned any interference by religion in the affairs of state, a wise move indeed.

So the reason they separated was:-

1) The bond of religion was not strong enough to hold the two nations together.

As a matter of fact bond of religion was not even strong enough to hold Bannu Hashim and Bannu Ummayya together a few years after the death of Holy Prophet, and it led to martyrdom of Hazrat Usman and they later divisions during Hazrat Ali's time.


We dont base Islam on "their" history books... Mistakes were done by both sides at that time (I am not an apologist for the idiots who were running west Pakistan at that time)... as for your assertion that the west was doing things in guise of Islam... that is downright silly... the Islamic political parties like JI were never in power at that time... General Yahya was no example of Islam so they may say all that, it does nt change the fact that we were not looking at Islam rather we were talking nationalism... Its not much different from what the BLA goons are doing nowadays... what is working in our favor is that Baluchistan is geographically attached to the rest of Pakistan!!!

As for the point of the bond of religion being a weak bond... I totally agree with that... You could have a case if you could prove that I m talking about a religious bond... there is a difference between ideological and religious bond... Islam for all we know it is an ideology... not just a religion...

As for your point of clashes during the time of the Rashideen... My friend the principle you need to focus on there is that History is a very good teacher and the wise keep the lessons of history in mind... its a different thing that we keep repeating history foolishly... The reason why there was clash between Muslims is discussed in great detail... the actions of the Munafiqeen, the Khawarijeen, the Yahood, The Parsis and the corrupt amongst Muslims as well... its all there (nowadays you could add... the nationalists ;))

And yet we have many sects, so are you implying that those who follow a certain sect are not muslims?

How do you define sects?

No Pakistan was not made for Islam, it was made for Indian Muslims. So Just as Afghanistan is for Afghans, and Turkey is for Turks, Pakistan is for Pakistanis(Who happened to be called Indian muslims pre 1947).

And what is a Muslim? :D

Thats your personal choice and you can be proud of whatever as an individual

You seem upset... are you alright?

Don't mix caliphate with Islam, these are two different things. But that discussion we were having in a separate thread and I already proved to you that the two were not the same.

I m sure you have proved nothing... The Caliphate is part and parcel of Islam...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...orking-establish-caliphate-6.html#post1308426[/QUOTE]
 
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if western democracy was non sense then the west would be like afghanistan today.

i personally am not against or pro khilafat, but it simply is not possible, given the complication of relations between the countries, people, distance. you could do it centuries ago, but not now.

haha... this made me laugh...

if distance were an issue, it would have been more an issue in the past... not today... what are you on about man... :no:

and yes... afghanistan is a greater nonsense than the west... but look... the west call it a democracy now!!!

maybe afghanistan will be better under Karzai... in about a million years
 
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Despite assurance from the lawyers and police, the people demanded that the woman should be handed over to them and pelted stones at the police station building and burned tyres on road.

I would like something to share

Muslims have convinced themselves that they are super-humans. They believe that the world should be very attentive to the Muslims’ religious and cultural sensitivities while they can persecute any minority

On an international level, people from every religion exchange greeting cards to commemorate different occasions. We all know that most of these cards are meant for the wastebasket. What if a Christian or Jew saw a Muslim salesperson throwing his card with Jesus or Moses’ name on it and called the police to register a case of blasphemy against him/her and the police arrested the violator? Most western readers would laugh out loud at this unlikely scenario but it is not a laughing matter for a physician from Hyderabad, Pakistan, who, unwittingly, threw a Muslim’s visiting card in the trash basket. He apologised to the offended party and yet the police arrested him under pressure from religious fanatics.

The manner in which the religious parties are campaigning for Aasia Bibi’s hanging has given me many nightmares while living in the US capital. What if the Bible belt of the southern states in the US became as influential as the religious parties in Pakistan? The US Congress and Senate would add a constitutional amendment on blasphemy laws according to which anyone who believes in any prophet after Jesus would be sentenced to death. Under pressure from Washington, most European and South American countries and those with majority Christian populations would follow suit in making the Christian blasphemy law. Hindus, Buddhists and people of other religions would also be forced to pass such laws. What kind of world would we live in if all that should take place?

Whatever happens, the Blasphemy Law will be fully operational against Muslims because they were the ones who set the precedent. This means that the millions of Muslims living in non-Islamic countries would face persecution and may even be led to the gallows. Fundamentalists and extremists of every religion will justify Muslim persecution on the basis of their belief in a prophet who came after Jesus and other prophets and the way the people believing in this religion have been targeting Christians and other minorities in their own countries.

Lucky for the Muslims living in the US and other non-Islamic countries that no nation has blasphemy laws and Muslims can throw any greeting card in the wastebasket or even openly put down other religions without fear of reprisal. Of course, after 9/11, Muslims may be screened more at airports. Even the Indian ambassador to Washington, Ms Meera Shankar, was put through a body search for which India has lodged a strong protest with the US. One can see regular white Americans also being humbled at airports. Therefore, discrimination is there but Muslims never realise that they have worse practices in their own countries. They do not see a connection between the liberties they enjoy abroad in contrast to the persecution of minorities in their homelands.

Furthermore, Muslims in the US and other European countries are not taking discrimination lying down; they are fighting for their equal rights. Nowadays, US-based Muslim organisations are campaigning for the US government to allow them to send zakat money to other countries. The US put many restrictions on such charities under the pretext that such money is being used to fund Muslim terrorist organisations. The point is that Muslim organisations can challenge such laws publicly despite American sensitivity about the role of charitable organisations in funding jihad.

While Muslims enjoy such liberties in the western world, they are intolerant towards minorities in their own countries. Religious parties take the most hypocritical positions at home and abroad. They agitate for equal rights in the west and demonstrate to maintain the Blasphemy Law and hang a poor rural Christian like Aasia Bibi in Pakistan. Religious parties want democratic freedom when it comes to their own interests but become fascists when it is someone else’s right. For example, the Jamaat-e-Islami wants pure democracy and transparency in the country but in institutions under their control, like the Punjab University, they become a corrupt, tyrannical force. A similar pattern is repeated wherever religious parties gain control, be it in FATA or an educational institution.

Aasia Bibi’s case does not make much sense. Having lived with many rural Christians — who are mostly very poor and are considered untouchables — I know that these poor souls are incapable of committing the crimes they are accused of. Most of the time, the grudging ‘Muslim masters’ register such cases to punish them for disobeying or refusing to do free work. Muslim organisations are up in arms to free Aafia Siddiqui for violating US laws but show no compassion for Aasia Bibi. Obviously, this is a crude example of double standards.

Somehow, Muslims have convinced themselves that they are super-humans. They believe that the world should be very attentive to the Muslims’ religious and cultural sensitivities while they can persecute any minority. Religious minorities are persecuted in other countries as well (Christian persecution in India is widespread).Disagree However, the difference is that, unlike India and other countries, Pakistan’s constitution provides the grounds for minority discrimination. The Blasphemy Law has become a tool and rallying point for religious organisations for their continuous domination of the political space.

Presently, the religious parties are using the Blasphemy Law for a proxy war. The support for religious causes has been going down because of terrorist acts by the Taliban and other jihadi groups. Therefore, the campaign for the preservation of the Blasphemy Law is being deployed to regain lost ground and to keep their monopoly over the ideological discourse. Actually, this is a smokescreen to defend the Taliban and other jihadis and provide the ideological basis for the continuation of terrorism.

The mainstream parties are either spineless or secretly in agreement with the mullahs. Different levels of administration, security agencies and even some courts are not enlightened enough to understand the negative impact of such discriminatory practices.

While having laws like blasphemy and indulging in the persecution of poor minorities, Pakistan is never going to be a respectable country in the world community. Which foreign business will invest in Pakistan if they fear that the mistake of throwing away a business card can cost them their lives? However, the religious monopoly over the ideological discourse and madness is going to dominate the country until a counter-movement takes shape.



I read this in PDF ...
 
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A state that follows a religious ideology armed with nukes. No thank you.

So its ok for a secular capitalist state and a communist state to be armed with nukes (one of them which actually used the nukes in war) but not ok for an Islamic State... very balanced and standardized... good going Jigs
 
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Most people of different faiths worldwide are named after religious figures or based on the various names of God, be it Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism or any other faith.

Pardon me but this seems like a very extremist case to me where this man has done something that is very normal as we all do. Throwing non-required documents or cards with the name of one person one it (who happens to be named after a religious figure) is not akin to blasphemy in any way at all.

This all to me seems like an attempt to gain cheap political mileage by blaming and making the life of one person miserable. What further substantiates the futility of this case is the accused here is himself a Muslim by faith and naturally as he would have been taught during his early years, his intention would not have been to hurt the religious sentiments of people when he merely chucked a card into dustbin.

I think if civil law has any significance, I think this case should simply be repealed as it is needlessly causing distress to the accused while serves no logic of blasphemy in reality.
 
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haha... this made me laugh...

if distance were an issue, it would have been more an issue in the past... not today... what are you on about man... :no:

and yes... afghanistan is a greater nonsense than the west... but look... the west call it a democracy now!!!

maybe afghanistan will be better under Karzai... in about a million years

what we see in afghanistan is nothing but anarchy for the last 3 decades, so dont blame democracy. democracy hasnt failed in europe and america.
 
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So its ok for a secular capitalist state and a communist state to be armed with nukes (one of them which actually used the nukes in war) but not ok for an Islamic State... very balanced and standardized... good going Jigs

Islamic states are not capable of making sound decisions based on logical calculations. They instead form a policy around their religious text and act accordingly. This is not something that is compatible with modern times unless it is highly modified and revised which in Islams case is not permitted. Secular unitary states with western capitalist concepts have proven to be the most stable and logical forms of government.
 
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