Ankara restores relations with Paris, revoking sanctions

[Deno]

"God willing" is a universal statement. Would you have understood if I said "astvats kamenum" (Armenian version)? On the other hand, Muslims say inshallah. All same meaning.

All Armenians are Christian, those who converted are called Hemshis.

I believe that Christianity and Islam in government are generally aligned, although the conservatism in Armenia is matched probably only by Saudi Arabia or Iran. ( By this, I do not mean that Christianity is forced on society, but those who do observe are adamant and even the most secular will attend church at least once every few months. And yes, the Constitution recognizes the Apostalic Church as state religious authority and as ecclestial guide for all Armenians).

Yes, forced migration of a rebelling nation in a war time, providing milk to new mothers and pregnant women and providing every convoy a doctor and sending them to fertile cresendent is a genocide... I told you that please give me one offical Ottoman document that says state should/would/did kill Armenian civilians. Just one.

 

[explorer9]

Turkey should project it's point-of-view on the Armenian genocide more vigourously.

One of my favorite English writers, M. Marmaduke Pickthall, spent alot of time in Ottoman Turkey(both during and before&after WW1), and he spent alot of time and effort trying to show people that the Armenian genocide was a complicated thing. His book, With the Turk in Wartime(copyright expired, available online for free), detailed some pretty grueling things.

He writes about how the Turks were the only race so civilized and tolerant, that their injured soldiers would mark in lines out of ships in Istanbul, and their own westernized elements and Christian/Greek minorities would humiliate them, throw things at them, mock them, and the wounded Turk soldiers would still quietly bear it all.

The West has a way of twisting facts, and using what happened a century ago to pressure nations. Really selective morality though, because they're perfectly with killing millions of civilians in Iraq(4 million+), Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea(essentially every war they wage), or when their dearest ally Israel blocks food supplies to Gaza's starving population. In cases like those, it's actually immoral to provide those starving people food, and the brave people who get massacred trying to bring those criticially needed supplies, are the bad guys.

Thanks a lot, i already downloaded it and will surely read the book.

 

[Qasibr]

What you mean by whole the world? Who was involved to the first world war? Look at the countries that involved in to this, their dark history is full of genocides and warcrimes. Yes, i am talking about Brittish, French, Russian, Greek, Italyan and Armenian.

There only hope is, that a Islamic Empire must have comitted a genocide to.

I don't think the Islamic empire did.

Look at our history. Muslims have lived and co-existed peacefully with every other group, Christian groups(especially Arab Christian) have lived in Muslim lands for over a millennium. Just about the only place the Jews weren't prosecuted, were Muslim lands - Islam makes it a tenet of religion to treat other people's places of worship as sacred(and prevent harm from coming to them). Muslims lived with athiests and polytheistic people(Hinduism has hundreds of millions of Gods - lived under Muslim rule for hundreds of years).

We never had witch-hunts like Europe. Never "forced religion by the sword" like the west accuses Islam of. The west tried, using military might, to impose their ideology on the whole world. Completely wiped out weaker races on the battlefield and subjugated them for centuries. All over the world from the Native American tribes, to the Aborginal people who inhabited Australia, to South America where they spread diseases for which natives had no immunity, Africans they hunted like animals and enslaved. And yet, these things like forced conversions, the vanquished natives deeply cherished their values and quietly passed them from generation to generation. And even centuries later, in every single one of these places they conquered, the native beliefs still exist. The human spirit cannot be conquered by sword or guns, something which the western organisation experience amply proved.

So - please research into this stuff before stating that we committed genocide. Read authors like Pickthall, reading his stuff like Oriental Encounters(that he wrote after travelling in Turkey and the Usmani Khilafat in 1892) show how much tolerance there was and how peaceful people lived, that even a British author was amazed. Those territories have seen nothing but bloodshed and tragedy after tragedy, afterthe west's continued "experimentation" and meddling in that area(continuing to this day).

 

[Cirit]

Typical "the-entire-world-is-lying-but-only-we-the-Turks-know-the-truth" attitude.

Kajutyun the Turcophobe,

Let me give you an example for what Turks do when they are sure about thier thoughts whether rest of the world think opposite;

From 1790 until 1918 (128 years) the various Ottoman Sultans never accepted Poland's partition. The Ottoman refusal was manifested in the following way: During the annual reception for foreign ambassadors at the Ottoman Court the court officials would ask loudly “where is the Polish ambassador?” in front of all ambassadors. The reply from Ottoman bureaucrats would be that the Polish ambassador “was on his way but is late because of adverse road conditions.” The exercise was a determined show of refusal to acquiesce to the partition of Poland.

Today do you know a country called Poland? Where is the rest of the world now?

Same for Turkish republic of Northern Cyprus, same for so called "ArmoGeno", who gives a sh*t about rest of the world, yooo punk!

 

[Kajutyun]

What you mean by whole the world? Who was involved to the first world war? Look at the countries that involved in to this, their dark history is full of genocides and warcrimes. Yes, i am talking about Brittish, French, Russian, Greek, Italyan and Armenian.

There only hope is, that a Islamic Empire must have comitted a genocide to.

Wth is wrong with you?!?!?! Your justification for the Armenian Genocide is that other countries have committed atrocities as well?

I don't think the Islamic empire did.

Look at our history. Muslims have lived and co-existed peacefully with every other group, Christian groups(especially Arab Christian) have lived in Muslim lands for over a millennium. Just about the only place the Jews weren't prosecuted, were Muslim lands - Islam makes it a tenet of religion to treat other people's places of worship as sacred(and prevent harm from coming to them). Muslims lived with athiests and polytheistic people(Hinduism has hundreds of millions of Gods - lived under Muslim rule for hundreds of years).

We never had witch-hunts like Europe. Never "forced religion by the sword" like the west accuses Islam of. The west tried, using military might, to impose their ideology on the whole world. Completely wiped out weaker races on the battlefield and subjugated them for centuries. All over the world from the Native American tribes, to the Aborginal people who inhabited Australia, to South America where they spread diseases for which natives had no immunity, Africans they hunted like animals and enslaved. And yet, these things like forced conversions, the vanquished natives deeply cherished their values and quietly passed them from generation to generation. And even centuries later, in every single one of these places they conquered, the native beliefs still exist. The human spirit cannot be conquered by sword or guns, something which the western organisation experience amply proved.

So - please research into this stuff before stating that we committed genocide. Read authors like Pickthall, reading his stuff like Oriental Encounters(that he wrote after travelling in Turkey and the Usmani Khilafat in 1892) show how much tolerance there was and how peaceful people lived, that even a British author was amazed. Those territories have seen nothing but bloodshed and tragedy after tragedy, afterthe west's continued "experimentation" and meddling in that area(continuing to this day).

Who is "we"? Are you referring to Muslims in general or specifically Turks? In both cases you are in correct.

Sudanese Muslims have committed genocide against the Christians in the southern part of the country. Or do you deny this as well? Don't make generalizations about religions, they are almost always untrue.

I have researched. What you fail to mention is that Pickthall was a Muslim convert, and even before that he was in love with the Ottoman Empire. Don't you think this is bias? If you would like a truly impartial source, read Ottoman Centuries by Lord Kinross, a British historian, He is leading expert on this field, and has no particular love/dislike of Ottomans, Armenians, or any other group. You would enjoy this book, it is very readable and detailed.

Kajutyun the Turcophobe,

Let me give you an example for what Turks do when they are sure about thier thoughts whether rest of the world think opposite;

From 1790 until 1918 (128 years) the various Ottoman Sultans never accepted Poland's partition. The Ottoman refusal was manifested in the following way: During the annual reception for foreign ambassadors at the Ottoman Court the court officials would ask loudly “where is the Polish ambassador?” in front of all ambassadors. The reply from Ottoman bureaucrats would be that the Polish ambassador “was on his way but is late because of adverse road conditions.” The exercise was a determined show of refusal to acquiesce to the partition of Poland.

Today do you know a country called Poland? Where is the rest of the world now?

Same for Turkish republic of Northern Cyprus, same for so called "ArmoGeno", who gives a sh*t about rest of the world, yooo punk!

Cirit the ArmenoPhobe masquerading as a laser-guided missile,

OK. You have found an example of where Turks have shown some decency. I recently read an article about how Hitler granted clemency to a Jew for unspecified reasons. Does this change anything?

Actually, I support a future Turkish Republic of North Cyprus (granted the Turkish Army cuts down it's 40,000 force there). It is in line with self-determination, same as in Artsakh.

 

[Targon]

In the same time scholars who have different views claimed to be paid by Turkey or sided.

 

[TurAr]

Wth is wrong with you?!?!?! Your justification for the Armenian Genocide is that other countries have committed atrocities as well?

Says the guy who has tried to justify PKK's terror by using "genocide". You've tried to justify deaths of Turkish people by sending dead Armenian photos. You said Turks has no right to complain while they are being killed by PKK because of the so-called genocide.

Now please, confess your hatred first, then you might be taken seriously...

I will gladly acknowledge PKK as terrorists if you acknowledge the Genocide.

 

[Targon]

I saw a similar attitude at some Balkanians, they were saying their atrocities againts muslim population of balkans especially in Balkan wars is justified because they were ruled and repressed by Ottomans

 

[Kajutyun]

Says the guy who has tried to justify PKK's terror by using "genocide". You've tried to justify deaths of Turkish people by sending dead Armenian photos. You said Turks has no right to complain while they are being killed by PKK because of the so-called genocide.

Now please, confess your hatred first, then you might be taken seriously...

Don't make up lies. You, or another Turk, first sent pictures from Khojaly, and after that I post those pictures.

I said that because I don't necessarily have a position on PKK. There is not enough information about them, but from what I understand they are doing terrorist-like activity. Same thing with the Genocide: Turkey knows what happened, all that is left is an official recognition. What do you not understand?

I saw a similar attitude at some Balkanians, they were saying their atrocities againts muslim population of balkans especially in Balkan wars is justified because they were ruled and repressed by Ottomans

Yes, they were wrong as well.....

 

[Targon]

I told you already what you accept as truth is not truth for us, why we would recognize something we don't accept ?

 

[Kajutyun]

I told you already what you accept as truth is not truth for us, why we would recognize something we don't accept ?

You are incorrect. Turkey DOES know that the Ottomans committed Genocide. They know this better than any other country in the world (maybe except for Armenia). The issue is that they refuse to recognize to the international community.

 

[Targon]

Are we from another country ?

 

[Kajutyun]

Are we from another country ?

Are you having issues with English?

 

[TurAr]

Don't make up lies. You, or another Turk, first sent pictures from Khojaly, and after that I post those pictures.

I said that because I don't necessarily have a position on PKK. There is not enough information about them, but from what I understand they are doing terrorist-like activity. Same thing with the Genocide: Turkey knows what happened, all that is left is an official recognition. What do you not understand?

That is the difference between us, i don't lie. It was in the thread that you and your troll friend got banned. He asked me what is PKK doing other than helping Kurds. I answered him with sending a picture of 3 victim child. And you sent black white photos as an 'answer'.

My point is that Turks cannot talk about rights or territorial integrity when they have committed genocide and denied it. Oh, and I don't care what you said for me to do or not to do. I'll talk about whatver I want.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...ill-five-azeri-soldiers-41.html#ixzz20Q2ryQW2

The PKK is just another group fighting for its independence. No, I do not like the way they fight, but they fight for a good reason. Whether you like it or not, most of Turkiye's land is stolen land from other civilizations.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...ill-five-azeri-soldiers-39.html#ixzz20Q3bcDsm


There is not enough info about them? Hmm, but you seem to had that information about a month ago, what happenned now?

 

[TrMhMt]

You are incorrect. Turkey DOES know that the Ottomans committed Genocide.

Turkiye knows that Ottoman didn't commit genocide. "Ottomans committed genocide" is your lie. You created this lie and you convinced yourself to believe that and your life goes around this lie. You are murdered 3million of Turkish and Kurdish civilians during ww1 and they banished you. This is the truth.

After all you shameless armenians cry like a little girl here.