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Anger as Spain prepares to let Russian warships refuel on way back to Aleppo bombing

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@flamer84 DO you know the real issue with EU countries in war situation with Russia? forget your technologies. Technologies arent even winning wars for america. Europeans have no energy to fight a serious war. thats you guys main issue. thats also why you need NATO more than NATO needs you.
YOu guys want to relax, have fun, live good lives, and stay way from problems of problematic developing countries...except those with oil.
 
The far right of europe supporte Putin. From le Pen to german AfD, italian FI and austrian FPO.

But Putin does not support Far-right Europe.

It can barely hold its stand in Syria and is unable to push a quick victory for the Assad regime there.
Russia isn't fighting a war on the ground against Rebels. Russia is supplying guns,ammo,SAMs,etc they are doing bombing runs but the rest is up to the Assad regime to fight Rebels. Russia is more concerned about ISIS.


You should visit italy one day. Or Europa in general. I tell you you will love it. Maybe you will change your opinion then and see us in a better light.

What? Why would I ever go to Europe? All your posts and other threads show me it is the worst place to ever land in for a Muslim. I would rather shoot myself in the foot with a desert Eagle then ever visit Europe(except Russia or Turkey even though those are technically not European). Sorry but you guys really freak me out.

I guess your solution will now include ethnic cleansing as well?

Who cares about who lives where, the land still belongs to the countries Morroco and Britain. You should also know that it's your government who wants to do cleansing mainly with Muslims in their target sights.
 
you are wealthy no doubt butte problem is that you are also extravagant .


Since when is being extravagant a problem?

Italy was always extravagant. We love life, art and style. We do so since old times. Be it the roman empire, the later italian city republics or vatican state or italy today.

I give you an example...Venice was ´far more extravagant than the Ottoman empire. The Ottoman sultan threatened Venice again and again. The italian republics were the leading trade nations in the Med region and propably worldwide during this time. We had a gigantic trade fleet, excellent elite troops but no massive army.

The ottoman sultan threatened more and more with classical diplomatic and militaristic bullshit. Until the leader of the Ventian republic had enough of this. You know what he did? He assasinated the ottoman Sultan. He moved beyond all this diplomatic and military nonsense and just killed that guy with poison.

So while the italian lands removed that danger in the east there was chaos erupting in the ottoman lands because the sultans sons fought each other.

Italy is that kind of nation that sells your enemy posion gas and yourself gas masks. :D

But Putin does not support Far-right Europe.


Russia isn't fighting a war on the ground against Rebels. Russia is supplying guns,ammo,SAMs,etc they are doing bombing runs but the rest is up to the Assad regime to fight Rebels. Russia is more concerned about ISIS.




What? Why would I ever go to Europe? All your posts and other threads show me it is the worst place to ever land in for a Muslim. I would rather shoot myself in the foot with a desert Eagle then ever visit Europe(except Russia or Turkey even though those are technically not European). Sorry but you guys really freak me out.



Who cares about who lives where, the land still belongs to the countries Morroco and Britain. You should also know that it's your government who wants to do cleansing mainly with Muslims in their target sights.



lol yeah right.

Putin is strongest supporter of french Front National. He is strongest supporter of italian FI and german AfD.

Putin gave french Front National a million € credit for election campaigns.

Putin and the far right in europe share same ideology. We are conservative. Want power and traditions. We want break with USA:

Russias-allies-in-Europe.jpg


The far right in europe wants get rid of any american influence and russia is our ally in that.

As for ethnic cleansing.

Ceuta and Melilla are inhabitated by spaniards. We have something called seldetermination right of the people. Since only spaniards live in that areas it is spain. The spanish people there elected to have it that way.

So yes it doesnt matter what you say since reality is that it is spain. Go to morocco and try entering Ceuta and melilla and your phanatsy will collide with the erality of a 20 meter high electric fence.

As for ethnic cleansing of muslims in italy. It is our country. There is no law on earth that forces us to cater illegal aliens. we are a christian nation, the center of christianity.

As long i cant visit Mecca for vacation i see no reason why we should cater muslims.
 
Since when is being extravagant a problem?

Italy is that kind of nation that sells your enemy posion gas and yourself gas masks. :D
The problem with being extravagant is you always will be in need of more money.

And no I won't accept that deal many chemical agents can be absorbed from skin so that gas mask will be useless.


By the way which ottoman sultan you're talking about as many of them even could not rule their own harem. And some of them would not have bothered with threat and diplomacy.
 
Spanish foreign ministry now reviewing permit issued to Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier to dock in Ceuta
after outcry over Moscow’s Syria airstrikes.

1920.jpg

Russian warships pass through English channel. Spain will reportedly allow them to refuel on their way to take
part in the bombing campaign against Aleppo.




Spain is facing criticism for reportedly preparing to allow the refuelling of Russian warships en route to bolstering the bombing campaign against the besieged Syrian city of Aleppo.

Warships led by the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov are expected to take on fuel and supplies at the Spanish port of Ceuta after passing through the Straits of Gibraltar on Wednesday morning.

Spanish media reported that two Spanish vessels, the frigate Almirante Juan de Borbón and logistical ship Cantabria, were shadowing the warships as they passed through international waters, and that the Admiral Kuznetsov, along with other Russian vessels and submarines, would dock at Ceuta to restock after 10 days at sea.

Late on Tuesday night, El País reported that the Spanish ministry of foreign affairs was reviewing the permit issued to the Russian flotilla to stop at Ceuta. The ABC newspaper quoted the ministry as saying: “The stops requested by Russia in Ceuta … are being reviewed right now based on the information we are receiving from our allies and the Russian authorities.”

At a meeting of defence ministers in Paris, Spain’s representative, Pedro Morenés, said the government would seek clarification from Russia about “the purpose and destination” of the ships, which he confirmed had “prior authorisation” to stop at Ceuta.

Last week British Royal Navy vessels monitored the Russian warships as they moved through the English Channel. The vessels were shadowed by the navy as they passed through the Dover Strait .

The enclave of Ceuta sits on the tip of Africa’s north coast, across the Straits of Gibraltar from mainland Spain, and bordering Morocco, which also lays claim to the territory. Although Ceuta is part of the EU, its Nato status is unclear, and since 2011 at least 60 Russian warships have docked there.

Nato secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg warned on Tuesday that Russian warships heading for Syria could be used to target civilians.

“We are concerned and have expressed very clearly by the potential use of that battle group to increase air strikes on civilians in Aleppo,” Stoltenberg said, adding that it was “up to each nation to decide whether these vessels may obtain supplies and refuel at different ports along the route to the eastern Mediterranean”.

Nato is monitoring the movement of the eight-strong carrier battle group from northern Russia en route to the eastern Mediterranean, where alliance officials fear it will launch fighter bombers to hit northwestern Syria early in November.

“The battle group may be used to increase Russia’s ability to take part in combat operations over Syria and to conduct even more air strikes against Aleppo,” Stoltenberg said.

Guy Verhofstadt, former prime minister of Belgium and now the EU’s representative on Brexit talks with the UK, called Spain’s decision to allow the refuelling “scandalous”.


The naval group is made up of Russia’s only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, as well as a nuclear-powered battle cruiser, two anti-submarine warships and four support vessels, likely escorted by submarines, Nato officials said.

The naval deployment, a rare sight since the end of the Soviet Union, is carrying dozens of fighter bombers and helicopters and is expected to join around 10 other Russian vessels already off the Syrian coast, diplomats said.

Washington’s envoy to Nato said Russia was within its right to move vessels through international waters. Military analysts say the deployment is a show of Russian force, as few countries have the ability to send an aircraft carrier group so far from home – although this would rely on refuelling in Spain.

“The problem would arise if this ship [Admiral Kuznetsov] contributes to the indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets in northwest Syria, particularly in and around Aleppo,” US ambassador Douglas Lute told reporters.


Members of the Syrian Civil Defence, known as the
White Helmets, search for victims following airstrikes
in Aleppo by Russian and Syrian warplanes.
Photograph: Karam Al-Masri/AFP/Getty Images

Sir Gerald Howarth, a former defence minister, told the Daily Telegraph it would be “wholly inappropriate” for a Nato member to refuel the vessels.

Former Royal Navy chief Lord West told the newspaper: “There are sanctions against Russia and it’s an extraordinary thing for a Nato ally to do.”

Spain’s foreign ministry told the Telegraph requests from the Russian navy were considered on a “case-by-case basis”.

A spokesman told the newspaper: “Russian navy vessels have been making calls in Spanish ports for years.”

A UK government spokesman said: “Access to Spanish ports is a matter for the Spanish authorities.
HMG [Her Majesty’s government] has previously expressed concerns to the Spanish government about its hospitality to the Russian navy when we have concerns about Russia’s military activity.

“We are clear that the UK’s relationship with Russia should not be business as usual.”

Last week’s Russian passage through the English Channel came after British prime minister Theresa May condemned Vladimir Putin’s aggression in Syria, accusing Moscow of being behind “sickening atrocities” in support of Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

May’s deputy official spokesman rejected suggestions that it was a sign of weakness that Russia felt able to send its ships via the English Channel. A Downing Street spokesman said: “I would reject suggestions that the Russians feel we are too weak. Clearly, we are not weak at all.”

Nato said the prospect of Russia’s only aircraft carrier heading to the region does not “inspire confidence” that Moscow is seeking a political solution to the Syrian crisis.

Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu said in September that the Admiral Kuznetsov-led Northern Fleet would be joining a taskforce in the Mediterranean.

According to the Russian news agency Tass, he told a defence board meeting that the plan was to bolster the Mediterranean fleet’s “combat capabilities”.

A statement from the fleet to the agency on 15 October said the group also consisted of the Pyotr Velikiy battlecruiser, the Severomorsk anti-submarine ship, the Vice-Admiral Kulakov destroyer and other support vessels.



Press Association and Reuters contributed to this report.

theguardian

Russia should be given the chances to learn that the moral highground is a, if not *the*, factor in what are called proxy wars (the situation in Syria can easily be callled such a proxy war)..
It took just a few years (less than 7 years, more than 2 years) before the Israeli leaderships understood this moral highground importance, and even the George W. Bush US administration (2000AD to 2008AD) understood it with remarkably little posting efforts.

Spain is right to let the Russians refuel at their ports.
What i now recommend to all governments is : reduce your collateral damage count (civilian deaths count) as much as possible. And *always*,*always* announce with information-leaflet droppings around civilian buildings (like hospitals) that that buildling you will destroy from the sea or the air or by landforces..
That is chapter two in the early 2nd-millenium warfare.
Chapter 1 is simply : it's a connected world since the 1990s, that *alone* spells out that gaining and holding a grip on the moral highground has now become paramount. Note that a battle for the hearts and minds, should be seen as secondary in importance to 'having a hold on the moral highground'. Making an effort to not kill civilians, to warn civilians and perhaps one day seeing armies building/funding refugee centers, is how to get that hold (and keep it at least while you actively avoid civilian casualties)..
 

This is just one picture that says a bunch of parties like him, not that he supports them.

As for ethnic cleansing of muslims in italy. It is our country. There is no law on earth that forces us to cater illegal aliens. we are a christian nation, the center of christianity.


So your not even bothering to hide it. To believe you actually wanted me to go to your state!

The Same Christian country that legalized Masturbating in Public?


Italy's Supreme Court rules public masturbation not a crime
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/europe/italy-supreme-court-masturbation/
Masturbating in public is not illegal, Italy's highest court rules
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ic-is-not-illegal-italys-highest-court-rules/


So much for your "chrisitan" Nation


At least we protect our Chrisitans from Dangerous and Mafia like Governments.














You would never see this in Italy would you?
 
The problem with being extravagant is you always will be in need of more money.

And no I won't accept that deal many chemical agents can be absorbed from skin so that gas mask will be useless.


By the way which ottoman sultan you're talking about as many of them even could not rule their own harem. And some of them would not have bothered with threat and diplomacy.


I think his name was Mehmet? I dont know. We dont learn much about enemy nations history. We just learn that all churches bells rung in Venice when he died and that he looked like a zombie.

Let me ask you, is it easier to make a giant army like the SUltan did or build up a gigantic network of spies and assassins as italy did? A network that had assassins even inside the Sultans Harem and closest inner circle. Something the Ottomans never managed to install in italy.

Your iranian elite is extremly extravagant. You see your army leaders as problematic because of that?

This is just one picture that says a bunch of parties like him, not that he supports them.




So your not even bothering to hide it. To believe you actually wanted me to go to your state!

The Same Christian country that legalized Masturbating in Public?


Italy's Supreme Court rules public masturbation not a crime
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/europe/italy-supreme-court-masturbation/
Masturbating in public is not illegal, Italy's highest court rules
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ic-is-not-illegal-italys-highest-court-rules/


So much for your "chrisitan" Nation


At least we protect our Chrisitans from Dangerous and Mafia like Governments.










You would never see this in Italy would you?


Can you advice me a nice hotel in Mecca? I want it to be upper class with sport and training equipment.

So whats your problem with masturbating in public? Nobody with a sane mind does it. So when a freak does it why move the entire justice league out because something like this?

Was egypt able to deal with its epidemic rape games that happen there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_sexual_assault_in_Egypt
 
Can you advice me a nice hotel in Mecca? I want it to be upper class with sport and training equipment.

You are not allowed in Mecca and you know it.

So whats your problem with masturbating in public? Nobody with a sane mind does it. So when a freak does it why move the entire justice league out because something like this?

You know it's discouraged in the bible right? So much for your "chrisitan" Nation.


Was egypt able to deal with its epidemic rape games that happen there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_sexual_assault_in_Egypt

Exact quote from the page,

"Sexual harassment was barely discussed in Egypt before 2006. The Egyptian Center for Women's Rights sought to draw attention to it, but the public's response was that it was an American idea wrongly applied to Egyptian society.[n 4]"

Wrongly applied to Egyptian society, this is about the sexual assaults during the revolution. You are acting like Sexual assault doesn't happen in Italy but it does so stop acting like an angel.
 
@flamer84 DO you know the real issue with EU countries in war situation with Russia? forget your technologies. Technologies arent even winning wars for america. Europeans have no energy to fight a serious war. thats you guys main issue. thats also why you need NATO more than NATO needs you.
YOu guys want to relax, have fun, live good lives, and stay way from problems of problematic developing countries...except those with oil.

The US have a military industrial bombs-producing "complex", that they need/want to keep producing bombs. So the USA has an economic incentive to start arms-races, wars, and to keep wars going ('bad aftermath handling') for longer than the average citizen would want.
Solutions? give the military a mining job (Moon mining and Mars mining especially) as a way to keep dual-purpose weapons+mining industries at work. That is currently the only way i can see less warmongering-for-profits-by-bombs-produced-and-used..
 
@EgyptianAmerican

yes, i invite you here to italy as a guest. I´m sure you would love italy. We have great art, culture and food.

We are considered one of the most beautiful nations in the world.

And if you visit the egyptian museum in Torino you can see the largest egyptian collection worldwide. Even bigger than what you have in Cairo.

1280px-Museo_Egizio_e_Galleria_sabauda%2C_Torino.jpg


slideshow2_low_light.jpg


They do super cool events there. There is a Halloween night now for example

bozza_locandinaEgizioHalloween-social-low.jpg


Its super cool and creepy. You can book a tour at night there in the museum and they scare you with those pharao mummies and all that creepy stuff.
 
yes, i invite you here to italy as a guest. I´m sure you would love italy. We have great art, culture and food.

We are considered one of the most beautiful nations in the world.

And if you visit the egyptian museum in Torino you can see the largest egyptian collection worldwide. Even bigger than what you have in Cairo.

As for ethnic cleansing of muslims in italy. It is our country. There is no law on earth that forces us to cater illegal aliens. we are a christian nation, the center of christianity.


No thanks,especially after you just justified Cleansing of your muslim population.

I would rather not visit the center of chrisitanity, I would not appreciate being crucified.
 
No thanks,especially after you just justified Cleansing of your muslim population.

I would rather not visit the center of chrisitanity, I would not appreciate being crucified.


Dont make a fool out of yourself. :)

Beside that, we have no muslim population. Its almost impossible to get italian citizenship. You must be italian by blood. Illegal aliens are not part of our population. When you come illegal you get deported. Thats normal procedure.
 
Dont make a fool out of yourself. :)

Beside that, we have no muslim population. Its almost impossible to get italian citizenship. You must be italian by blood. Illegal aliens are not part of our population. When you come illegal you get deported. Thats normal procedure.

Is this how Italians covince people to come over? By justifiing the cleansing of an entire religious group then offering a person of that same Reigious group to come over and visit? then when that persons says no thanks you insult them?


I am not the fool it is YOU my friend.
 
Dont make a fool out of yourself. :)

Beside that, we have no muslim population. Its almost impossible to get italian citizenship. You must be italian by blood. Illegal aliens are not part of our population. When you come illegal you get deported. Thats normal procedure.
No markus. Italian PR is damn easy.

Infect i am shocked at how muslim illegal immigrants have taken over italy. In Florence last month i saw them openly criticising italy while supporting anti Christian n jewish sentiment. Mostly at those shady net parlor or kebab shop.

North is much better in that sense. Still the great art literature music and architecture remains.

I wish your govt strictly kick illegal out. Because i dont wish to see italy diluted.
 
Is this how Italians covince people to come over? By justifiing the cleansing of an entire religious group then offering a person of that same Reigious group to come over and visit? then when that persons says no thanks you insult them?


I am not the fool it is YOU my friend.

We have one million muslims in italy. Thats a small amount but its ok. They are not harassed. The illegals get deported. The oney who dont follow italian law by 100% get deported.

Thats ok. :)

Explain me why cant i visit Mecca?

No markus. Italian PR is damn easy.

Infect i am shocked at how muslim illegal immigrants have taken over italy. In Florence last month i saw them openly criticising italy while supporting anti Christian n jewish sentiment. Mostly at those shady net parlor or kebab shop.

North is much better in that sense. Still the great art literature music and architecture remains.

I wish govt strictly kick illegal out. Because i dont wish to see italy diluted.


No one has taken over. We have the lowest number of muslims in europe. If something happened and you saw it you should have called police since we usually deport any muslim who issues anti italian propaganda. A facebook post is enough for this.
 
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