Anger as Spain prepares to let Russian warships refuel on way back to Aleppo bombing

[EgyptianAmerican]

well, I wonder if right now Italy leave NATO , Can you guys divert enough money from other area to defense sector to compensate the loss of NATO support. Some years ago I heard complaint about many European countries rely too much on NATO and won't spend enough money on defense .

Isn't there also an EU defense force?

 

[flamer84]

Yeah I hope NATO gets disbanded, gives far more freedom for the Russians to steamroll Far-Right Europe like in World War 2.

Far right Europe would probably be allied With Russia and Russia doesn't have the muscle to steamroll Europe anyway,with or without the US.Actually ,nobody has that power today.

As you can clearly see here America doesn't needs Spain's Aprroval to get through, Just Morroco and Britian both Long time Allies.

No Morrocco,Ceuta is Spanish despite Morrocan butthurt.

 

[MarkusS]

Spain alone doesn't own all of it,neither can they stop America from going through it.

"The Strait lies mostly within the territorial waters of Spain and Morocco, except for at the far eastern end. The United Kingdom (through Gibraltar) claims 3 nautical miles around Gibraltar putting part of the Strait inside British territorial waters, and the smaller-than-maximal claim also means that part of the Strait therefore lies in international waters according to the British claim. However, the ownership of Gibraltar and its territorial waters is disputed by Spain, meanwhile Morocco dispute the far extern end (of Ceuta)."



As you can clearly see here America doesn't needs Spain's Aprroval to get through, Just Morroco and Britian both Long time Allies.


Yeah I hope NATO gets disbanded, gives far more freedom for the Russians to steamroll Far-Right Europe like in World War 2.

Putin is a facist and sponsors far right parties in Europe. So i dont see what you talk about.

I also womder why you did fall in hate again.

I wish you and your people all the best. Too bad you wish bad over us.

well, I wonder if right now Italy leave NATO , Can you guys divert enough money from other area to defense sector to compensate the loss of NATO support. Some years ago I heard complaint about many European countries rely too much on NATO and won't spend enough money on defense .

We are under the 7 richest nations on this planet. I think we pretty much can.

 

[Oldman1]

Isn't there also an EU defense force?

Its in name only.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Far right Europe would probably be allied With Russia and Russia doesn't have the muscle to steamroll Europe anyway,with or without the US.Actually ,nobody has that power today.

Wrong, Russia doesn't care about far-right Russia, Russia is not Far-Right. LOL you seriously think Russia can't steam roll Europe? Dude you guys have even less Military then before World War 2. If NATO disbands No America to the Rescue. Can't wait, It will be fun to watch.

Putin is a facist and sponsors far right parties in Europe. So i dont see what you talk about.

You have no proof of that, Neither is he a Facist.

I also womder why you did fall in hate again.

I wish you and your people all the best. Too bad you wish bad over us.

When did I start hating? I merely stated Facts and that was, If NATO is disbanded then Russia will steam-Roll Far-Right Europe.

I never wished bad for Italy just that I an see Russia crushing your army on the field and who knows, maybe russia will be better Rulers then your corrupt governments and Mafias.

No Morrocco,Ceuta is Spanish despite Morrocan butthurt.

No, Morroco has the rightful claim and Spain doesn't even have a majority of its borders on it. The colony of Britian does.


It's disputed but the American navy can still pass through it even if we kick Spain out of NATO. If not I would love to see Spain try and deny access to a American fleet.

Its in name only.

Are you sure?

Manpower
Active personnel 1,423,097 (2014)[1]


546 ships, 2,448 aircraft & 7,490 battle tanks


That's a lot of troops.

 

[flamer84]

Wrong, Russia doesn't care about far-right Russia, Russia is not Far-Right. LOL you seriously think Russia can't steam roll Europe? Dude you guys have even less Military then before World War 2. If NATO disbands No America to the Rescue. Can't wait, It will be fun to watch.

LOL dellusional much ? As of today:

Russia 4th generation fighters(i've even included Mig 31's) : 825 (mig 29,mig 31 su 27,su 30,su 35) ....only 48 true 4++(SU 35)

EU+ Norway (without UK) :1564 (F16's,F18's,F35's,Eurofighter,Panavia Tornado,Mirage 2000,Rafale,Mig29's,Saab Gripen) 390 4++ EFT and Rafales,even some F35'S

And the list goes on,more manpower,superior tech,much better training.Most European armies are professionals,Russians are conscripts,more ships,etc.

Yes,it really would be fun,Russia would get pawned.

Russia got bogged down in Ukr,it wanted the whole eastern part but had to settle for a little piece after lending air support,tanks,soldiers,IFV's,artillery.It was stopped by untrained Ukr nationalists.

Don't get me started that Russia can't concentrate all of the above on an offensive in Europe,it has to leave something in the Southern and Eastern military districts,at least a reasonable force.It would find itself outnumbered 3 to 1 in Europe,in fighter jets,against better trained pilots and superior tech

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

LOL dellusional much ? As of today:

Russia 4th generation fighters(i've even included Mig 31's) : 825 (mig 29,mig 31 su 27,su 30,su 35) ....only 48 true 4++(SU 35)

EU+ Norway (without UK) :1564 (F16's,F18's,F35's,Eurofighter,Panavia Tornado,Mirage 2000,Rafale,Mig29's,Saab Gripen)

And the list goes on,more manpower,superior tech,much better trainig.Most European armies are professionals,Russians are conscripts,more ships,etc.

Yes,it really would be fun,Russia would get pawned.

You seem to forget the Anti-Air defenses that Russia has. The S-400 can detect a F-22a at 45 kms without the S-400 being Targeted at all. What makes you think that a bunch of Euro 4th gen fighters could ever go toe to toe with Russian jets or Anti-Aircraft defenses?



"The S-300 and its follow-on systems are some of the most capable and dangerous air defenses an opposing air force could ever face. Not only are the missiles mobile, but the systems are networked together. One S-300 battery is a handful, but several such systems networked together into an integrated air defense system is a nearly insurmountable challenge for most fourth-generation fighters like the F-16 or F-15. As one senior U.S. Marine Corps aviator told me, the S-300 series is deadly. “A complete game changer for all fourth-gen aircraft [like the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18]. That thing is a beast and you don’t want to get near it,” he said."
-http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/american-f-22s-b-2-bombers-vs-russias-s-300-syria-who-wins-13905


"The highly mobile Pantsir-S1 is primarily designed to protect a small area against a threat with a pair of 2A38M 30mm cannons and a dozen 57E6 surface-to-air missiles.According to its manufacturer, it has a 12-mile range and can engage targets as high a 60,000ft.

But the Pantsir-S1 is just a point defense weapon. Russian integrated air defense systems are usually layered—similar to an onion or a matryoshka doll. The Pantsir is just one component. Systems like the mobile Almaz-Antey Buk-M2E—an older version of which downed the MH17airliner over Ukraine—provide protection at longer ranges and are designed to accompany a mechanized force on a campaign. The Buk—which NATO designates as the SA-17 Grizzly—is designed to engage targets at ranges of 28 miles and altitudes of more than 82,000ft according to its manufacturer.


Weapons like the S-300 and S-400 form the top tier of Russian surface-to-air missile systems and are designed to protect strategically important areas. The S-300PMU-1 has a range of about 120 miles and can engage targets as high as 100,000ft. Each battery can attack more than half a dozen targets simultaneously.

While older generation strategic SAMs were fixed emplacements, the S-300 and its follow-on systems are highly mobile and can move with little notice—which makes them far more survivable and dangerous. During the Soviet-era, weapons like the S-300 were usually assigned to the Soviet air defense forces—the Voyska PVO—while medium-range systems like the Buk were assigned to the Soviet ground forces. Modern Russia maintains a similar structure, but the Voyska PVO has been folded into the Russian Air Force."

-http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/american-f-22s-b-2-bombers-vs-russias-s-300-syria-who-wins-13905

https://fightersweep.com/3414/how-scary-is-the-russian-s-400-sam-system/

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html

https://theaviationist.com/2015/11/13/s-400-triumf-infographic/


You seriously think that Europe has less professionals then Russia? How many REAL wars has Romania been in during the current decade? What real war has the French or Germans fought in the past 2 decades?

The Question isn't can Russia win the war, it's how long till russia wins the war.

 

[flamer84]

You seriously think that Europe has less professionals then Russia? How many REAL wars has Romania been in during the current decade? What real war has the French or Germans fought in the past 2 decades?

The Question isn't can Russia win the war, it's how long till russia wins the war.

Yes,Europe has many more professional soldiers than Russia.This is an absolute truth.Even the 65k soldiers that Romania has train intensively under NATO standards,take part in war theatres,and,like most Euro soldiers...they are professionals...this is their job...train,train,train.Russia has many conscripts.

Sry,you have nothing.AA systems can be taken out by a variety of weapons,cruise ,missiles,etc...and the Russians should be on the offensive,meaning they have to move under extreme outnumbered numbers in hostile territory.You're a fanboy cheering a military outgunned,outteched,outnumbered and outtrained,Russian pilots fly 100 hours/year,Euros at least 150,and so on.Keep dreaming.

Ofcourse,Russians are smart and they'll keep away,don't worry.No war in Europe,it's much easier for all to test weapons in the ME,N Africa,Central Asia.The muslim world is where the "fun" is.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Yes,Europe has many more professional soldiers than Russia.This is an absolute truth.Even the 60k soldiers that Romania has train intensively under NATO standards,take part in war theatres,and,like most Euro soldiers...they are professionals...this is their job...train,train,train.Russia has many conscripts.

Sry,you have nothing.AA systems can be taken out by a variety of weapons,cruise ,missiles,etc.You're a fanboy cheering a military outgunned,outteched,outnumbered and outtrained.Keep dreaming.

Ofcourse,Russians are smart and they'll keep away,don't worry.No war in Europe,it's much easier for us all to test weapons in the ME,N Africa,Central Asia.

Please tell me your kidding? If an S-300 is a big problem for most advanced American 4th gen fighters then what makes you think your pathetic air forces can put up a fight? Not only that but you would absolutley get hammered in an engagement with Russian Jets and not even your top jets can dodge an S-400. Sorry it's YOU who is delusional.


"How Putin's Russia could overrun The Baltic states in THREE DAYS: US war planners say NATO has been caught napping and would be hopelessly outgunned"

• Think tank of army and civilian officials fear US and allies would be overrun
• Research suggests NATO has been caught napping by a resurgent Russia
• Russia could take the Baltic States in just 36-60 hours by launching two-pronged attack on Latvia then Estonia, according to series of war games
• NATO would have to rush to protect Riga and Tallinn, the capitals, but they do not have enough heavy armor in their ground forces to rival Putin's fleet
• All 27 of Russia's battalions have battle tanks; NATO's 12 have none

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rding-military-predictions.html#ixzz4OEqNivPl

This is with NATO, without it your going to get pummeled. You remind me of Nazi Germany, just too cocky. Russia is guaranteed going to steam roll you.

"Revealed: Russian Invasion Could Overrun NATO in 60 Hours"
-http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/revealed-russian-invasion-could-overrun-nato-60-hours-15112



http://warontherocks.com/2016/04/outnumbered-outranged-and-outgunned-how-russia-defeats-nato/

Legendary US Army Commander Says Russia Would "Annihilate" US In Head-To-Head Battle
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...s-russia-would-annihilate-us-head-head-battle



Sorry but your just dumb if you think that Europe could beat russia when not even Americans could.



If trump is elected I am going to enjoy watching your country get steam-rolled.

 

[flamer84]

Please tell me your kidding? If an S-300 is a big problem for most advanced American 4th gen fighters then what makes you think your pathetic air forces can put up a fight? Not only that but you would absolutley get hammered in an engagement with Russian Jets and not even your top jets can dodge an S-400. Sorry it's YOU who is delusional.


"How Putin's Russia could overrun The Baltic states in THREE DAYS: US war planners say NATO has been caught napping and would be hopelessly outgunned"

• Think tank of army and civilian officials fear US and allies would be overrun
• Research suggests NATO has been caught napping by a resurgent Russia
• Russia could take the Baltic States in just 36-60 hours by launching two-pronged attack on Latvia then Estonia, according to series of war games
• NATO would have to rush to protect Riga and Tallinn, the capitals, but they do not have enough heavy armor in their ground forces to rival Putin's fleet
• All 27 of Russia's battalions have battle tanks; NATO's 12 have none

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rding-military-predictions.html#ixzz4OEqNivPl

This is with NATO, without it your going to get pummeled. You remind me of Nazi Germany, just too cocky. Russia is guarnteed going to steam roll you.

"Revealed: Russian Invasion Could Overrun NATO in 60 Hours"
-http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/revealed-russian-invasion-could-overrun-nato-60-hours-15112



http://warontherocks.com/2016/04/outnumbered-outranged-and-outgunned-how-russia-defeats-nato/

Legendary US Army Commander Says Russia Would "Annihilate" US In Head-To-Head Battle
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...s-russia-would-annihilate-us-head-head-battle



Sorry but your just dumb if you think that Europe could beat russia when not even Americans could.



If trump is elected I am going to enjoy watching your country get steam-rolled.

Are you for real child ? Ofcourse in the beginning they'll steamroll the Baltics but from there it would get ugly.Europe doesn't have to beat Russia you dellusional child,you came with the theory that suddenly Russia invades and steamrolls Europe ,which can't be done when they're outnumbered 3 to 1 in superior figher jets(LOL at getting hammered by soviet era jets with undertrained pilots....Your country learned the hard way the quality of Russian jets),many more professional soldiers,much better supply chain by the defenders,etc.

Stop wasting bandwith with your fantasies.Ok,you go pray to the local mosque for an invasion but don't forget...you heard it here first ! There will be no Russian invasion in the next 10-15 years.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Are you for real child ? Ofcourse in the beginning they'll steamroll the Baltics but from there it would get ugly.Europe doesn't have to beat Russia you dellusional child,you came with the theory that suddenly Russia invades and steamrolls Europe ,which can't be done when they're outnumbered 3 to 1 in superior figher jets(LOL at getting hammered by soviet era jets with undertrained pilots....Your country learned the hard way the quality of Russian jets),many more professional soldiers,much better supply chain by the defenders,etc.

Stop wasting bandwith with your fantasies.Ok,you go pray to the local mosque for an invasion but don't forget...you heard it here first ! There will be no Russian invasion in the next 10-15 years.

They would continue to steam roll over all of Eastern Europe then stop,Recruit,Build infrastrcuture and logistic routes then continue. By that time Russia would have literally Millions on the fields and front-lines. The Germans thought the same way and you saw what happened to them. You will put up a good fight but in the end you will lose. Also these Soviet Era Jets and their advanced SAMS could leave European Air forces completely wrecked. I seriosuly doubt you will have any air superiority in the air. just because you train hard and have larger numbers does not mean you win. You should have also learned that from my country LOL.

 

[flamer84]

They would continue to steam roll over all of Eastern Europe then stop,Recruit,Build infrastrcuture and logistic routes then continue. By that time Russia would have literally Millions on the fields and front-lines. The Germans thought the same way and you saw what happened to them. You will put up a good fight but in the end you will lose. Also these Soviet Era Jets and their advanced SAMS could leave European Air forces completely wrecked. I seriosuly doubt you will have any air superiority in the air. just because you train hard and have larger numbers does not mean you win. You should have also learned that from my country LOL.

Russia won all her wars with SUPERIOR numbers because it always lagged in technology.Today it even lacks woefully in numbers,nevermind technology.They have 140 million people and they should invade 500+ million....whtaever,read some history

Whatever dude....you just wait for the invasion...lel

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Russia won all her wars with SUPERIOR numbers because it always lagged in technology.Today it even lacks woefully in numbers,nevermind technology.They have 140 million people and they should invade 500+ million....whtaever,read some history

Whatever dude....you just wait for the invasion...lel

But Russia is quite advanced nowadays. If NATO gets disbanded then I will glady watch for the Invasion because it's nearly guaranteed. If hillary gets elected, Invasion is not very likely.

 

[MarkusS]

Wrong, Russia doesn't care about far-right Russia, Russia is not Far-Right. LOL you seriously think Russia can't steam roll Europe? Dude you guys have even less Military then before World War 2. If NATO disbands No America to the Rescue. Can't wait, It will be fun to watch.



You have no proof of that, Neither is he a Facist.



When did I start hating? I merely stated Facts and that was, If NATO is disbanded then Russia will steam-Roll Far-Right Europe.

I never wished bad for Italy just that I an see Russia crushing your army on the field and who knows, maybe russia will be better Rulers then your corrupt governments and Mafias.



No, Morroco has the rightful claim and Spain doesn't even have a majority of its borders on it. The colony of Britian does.


It's disputed but the American navy can still pass through it even if we kick Spain out of NATO. If not I would love to see Spain try and deny access to a American fleet.



Are you sure?

Manpower
Active personnel 1,423,097 (2014)[1]


546 ships, 2,448 aircraft & 7,490 battle tanks


That's a lot of troops.

The far right of europe supporte Putin. From le Pen to german AfD, italian FI and austrian FPO.

No, Russia could not "steam roll" us. We live in the 21st century. Russia lost 1/3 of its population fighting just germany in the 40th and had US support. It can barely hold its stand in Syria and is unable to push a quick victory for the Assad regime there. So please spare me your destruction visions and dreams for war between nuclear powers.

As for our current government...that a italian decission to do.

Ceuta and Melilla is spain. Dont know what you even try to say here. Its spain since hundreds of years and the people of ceuta and melilla are spanish.

I guess your solution will now include ethnic cleansing as well?

Lets be honest, you hate us so much for reasons i dont understand that evry positive aspect for us is venomous for you?

You should visit italy one day. Or Europa in general. I tell you you will love it. Maybe you will change your opinion then and see us in a better light.

 

[Hack-Hook]

We are under the 7 richest nations on this planet. I think we pretty much can.

you are wealthy no doubt butte problem is that you are also extravagant .